Your Hatred Of Islam Is Embarrasing & Pathetic!!!

originally posted by: DuecesxGeneral
From my understanding, Islam is a religion of peace and maintaining peace.

A little laughter to go along with that comedy...

a reply to: celticdog

You didn't clear up the confusion. I didn't say felt I said have the same ideas.The Taliban are just a group with Sunni belief.

I thought it was pretty clear, what I meant.

If Sunnis had the same ideology as the Taliban it'd be the largest group on the planet bar none...
Thankfully we don't have the same ideas as the Taliban & their numbers have dwindled to mere thousands out of over a Billion Sunnites worldwide!
We are not of the same ilk!

Let me put it more clearly what is the difference between you a Sunni and the Taliban who are Sunni religiously? My bet is nothing just like the IRA are catholic.

Sunnites do not wage war on the offensive, purely defensive, so there is none of that "Death to America" mantra you'd expect or hear about...

& it all depends which IRA you're talking about doesn't it!

Provisional IRA who are for freedom, have my support...
The Real IRA do not, they're indiscriminate in their targeting!

One Celt to another uh, So you are also a new convert to Islam the worst kind just like newly born again ones. Being a Celt your roots are not in Islam but Druidism.

I converted earlier in the year, but have been studying Islam for over 5 years.

I have no affiliation with or belief in paganism as it is not what I've experienced in life, I was raised Catholic but do not believe the in the Holy Trinity!
I believe in one Abrahamic God & his long lines of messengers from Abraham, to Jacob, from Jesus to Muhammad, peace be upon them...



Hopefully that cleared things up for you pal!

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

You ask why we cherry-pick passages to use as arguements about Islam? Well maybe because some people use them as justification to kill innocent people. Seems reasonable to me. If you denounce this behavior of people citing passages of the Koran to justify killing innocent people, then thats a very good thing. But the problem is that you are denouncing it to the wrong people, what the peaceful muslims need to do is denounce it to the horrible creatures that use those passages to massacre innocents. I often hear people cite things some bad christians do and say of course we don't denounce all of christianity. But there is a huge difference. If a christian was to kill some people and use the bible to justify it, the people who would track these people down and arrest them and put them in prison would probably be christians, christians would denounce this loudly. Christian groups would probably try to help the families. Certainly in the United States. I go into Islam chatrooms quite often, I usually only have to wait 10-15 minutes till the discussion gets around to killing the infidels and the justification of killing jews and christians. If I ever interject that this is not a nice thing to do I immediately get called a jew, they don't even think there is a possibility that I might be a muslim, I think this is so odd.
I do get it though. The peaceful muslims are afraid to speak up against the extremists, but by doing this, you are giving them the power. And for this I am supposed to give you understanding? I'm sorry, No. We will continue to say this is bad, till you say its bad.

a reply to: UnderCoverAl

It is bad my friend, and I will never try to justify what these people do...

But just because they cherry pick verses ignoring the build up or overall Surah, doesn't mean the non-Islamic community, or the Islamic community should also cherry pick from the Quran!


Look at the Shia & Sunni tribes fighting IS...
Don't you think they deserve better than being lumped along side them despite the fact they're putting their lives on the line to defend true Islamic teachings!


I think it's a shame that their voice doesn't appear louder in the media, while IS's barbarism is supposedly more vocal...

I wouldn't say hatred was a weakness at all - whether people like it or not it exists, it's there and most of us have the potential to hate and be hateful.

To me hatred is simply a point in the spectrum of emotion, part of healthy emotional function. I don't like being hateful, but I won't waste time trying to trick myself or convince the world that it's something that doesn't or never will affect me.

It's how you handle and express your hate that's important - denying it means it'll go unchecked, recognising your shortcomings is the first step in learning how to deal with them. Starting a thread and denouncing hate in a hateful way is paradoxical at best.

There are things I hate, what they are isn't important nor are my reasons for doing so. Hate is as valid an emotion as sadness.

This overall message I'm getting from the op is one of contradiction...deriding hate in a hateful way, calling people ignorant and expressing a desire to ignore those who disagree...it's all a bit pot and kettle. I don't think that's an islamic trait, or even a christian trait but a human one.

Some people might be able to trick themselvers, I can't - there's always a voice int he back of my head that calls me out, the conscience sub-conscious.

a reply to: samerulesapply

This overall message I'm getting from the op is one of contradiction...deriding hate in a hateful way, calling people ignorant and expressing a desire to ignore those who disagree

I wasn't being hateful...

I don't feel hate for these people, I pity their lack of knowledge on the subject, despite the fact they claim to have it all figured out!

I have replied to many people who disagree with my beliefs...
I said I would not be replying to hateful ignorance...
Luckily the thread hasn't seen any of that which surprised me a little a first...
But then made sense that the people I was talking about would avoid this thread like a left hook from Iron Mike...

They'd be exposing themselves...


I hate many things...
Child abuse, sexual abuse, racism, fascism etc...

But I'd never hate someone for their religious beliefs...
That's counter-productive to a believer imo!

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
I converted earlier in the year, but have been studying Islam for over 5 years.

In any search for truth, religion will ultimately lead to a dead end.

Too many spend their entire lives studying religion or seeking enlightenment instead of going to the SOURCE or trying to connect with the very meaning of life and the creator of the universe.

I am 100% convinced that Religion is being used as a form of mind control and ultimately causing souls by the millions to completely abort the mission for which they were created.

The root meaning for the word 'religion' means to "reconnect with God" (from the original Latin).

Religio means “to go within” i.e. “to know and obey” God.

The agenda behind false religion is to keep you disconnected from God.

“Religion, from religare, signifies to tie or bind, because by true religion the soul is tied or bound, as it were, to God and His service.”

Museum of Antiquity A Description of Ancient Life

“The word religion comes from the word "religare" -- to bind fast, to connect.”
religare - definition and meaning

"There is so much more to this world but without removing the veil one may not ever see it. But man has forgotten how to listen. The awakening of man will only happen when man begins to listen to his creator. You have a purpose. All beings have a purpose." Lady in the Water - Prologue

Want to learn the REAL truth?

Start studying the lives of those in the past who connected with God in a real and tangible way.

Take a look at the fruit that is born from a genuine encounter with God:

Sundar Singh was born in 1889 into a wealthy Sikh family in Rampur, India. At the age of 14, on the night before a planned suicide, he cried out to God to show himself. Jesus appeared to Sundar in a vision saying, “I died for you. I am the Savior of the world.” This encounter was so powerful, that Sundar dedicated his life to following Jesus and sharing the Gospel. Sadhu Sundar Singh

Praying all night in the mosque, he asked God to help him. Suddenly he felt drops of oil falling on him and even smelled its fragrance, he says. He claims another time he heard an audible voice telling him to read a Bible—an abomination to a Muslim. “We would not touch a modern-day Bible,” he says. “This voice immediately put a desire in my heart. It is so vivid, so clear, so overwhelming. Still today, I could not forget that voice.”

For example, one man in a nation hostile to Christianity says he heard a voice telling him, “Find Jesus, find the gospel.” He didn’t know what Jesus was—a chair, a tree, an animal? But the voice told him exactly what city and house to go to, so he traveled for two weeks, arriving directly at the door of one of only three believers in the city.

Why Revival is Exploding Among Muslims

I had a real encounter with an evil spirit once; and only He could save me from the evil grip. You see, one of the rooms in our house had been known to have an evil spirit occupant. Many including my brothers and aunt had seen the spirit in the dark form of an ugly man. I was not a true believer of evil spirits and stuff that they were talking about. I did, however, have a rather strange experience when I spent the night in that room.

One fateful night, it was quite different and that thing got hold of me entirely. My whole body was paralyzed and the only body parts that still worked were my eye balls and my mind. I thought then that I was in real trouble this time. The feeling was awful and I was in the dark void completely.

In desperation, I called out bismillah imanirohim (from the Islamic religion) and then tried to recite omitoufut (from the Buddhism religion), but none of them worked. Finally, I cried out “Jesus, please help me!” and instantly I was freed and I made a quick dash out of that room. My parents sold that house a few years later.

Muslim encounter with Jesus

"...to ignore the evidence that appears to be accumulating worldwide would take either a large dose of denial (which is apparently available in maximum dosages in many media quarters) or a desire to ignore the obvious."

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Your opening post came across as reactionary and somewhat aggressive for me, just being honest. It was confrontational, and yes - it read a hateful in parts. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you're a genuine enough fellow and I respect your views and passion.

You made some good points though, I'm not trying to offend you - sometimes fighting fire with fire simply makes the fire worse, try using water. Essentially, it comes across as if you are being the very thing your thread is arguing against.

The fact is, you can't expect people to know your religious beliefs as well as you do, not everyone will study islam, or the quran...not everyone was born into the same set of circumstances, or was raised int he same tradition as you.

People tend not to wait until they have the full facts about an issue before they form judgement, that's life...that's people. It happens in all aspects/areas of life, not just religion.

It's up to people to correct their misconceptions and up to the educated to guide them - personally, I think you'd have made more of an impact if your thread was less in your face as it were, and more about trying to educate people and teach them why their misconceptions are wrong, but you went about it an quite a direct and aggressive way, confrontational.

You made some good points though, and I'm glad you are able to admit and accept that you're as susceptible to the emotion that is hate, like most humans. It's nothing to be ashamed of and not something people should deny.

I apologise - I don't know enough about the religion that was forced on me as a boy never mind one I was never taught anything about...don't expect people to know your faith like you do. People will be more willing to accept that they are wrong if you approach the matter in a more civil way. It just comes across as a little angry...and in that regard, only serves to re-inforce people's misconceptions and assumptions about islam.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

A disbeliever is someone who bears witness to God... & still turns their back...

So? This is what free will is all about no? They should be put to death for exercising their free will? Then it's not much of a free will is it...

I have studied the Bible, not so much the quran and don't really have any intention to, because I have seen enough of it to know that it is much like the Bible and full of hypocrisy and hate... IF god is real then he's a pretty pathetic entity indeed and I want no part of it...

As for all muslims being the same, I have not seen anyone say this actually, quite the opposite, but what I have seen people say is that the muslim religion is bad, I have seen people say all religion is bad (I agree with this second statement).

Even though I feel religion is bad, i still live and let live, as long as your religion doesn't effect me I couldn't give a damn about it or what you do. Same goes with anything really... As long as you don't hurt anyone or spoil other peoples freedoms (against their will) then anything goes in my book... Likewise if someone WANTED to be a slave or eaten or killed or whatever I think they have a right to do that.

I often speak out against what is going on in muslim countries regarding the bombings and killings... We're all human we all live on this planet and should all try to get along as much as possible. Agree to disagree when we can't.

To me there is one thing worse than organised religion, and that is organised government... XD

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

However I think I'm right in saying that all Hadiths are from after his death!


But the Hadith are similar to the Gospels of the disciples in the sense that it's others speaking on behalf of, or paraphrasing the respective Prophets!

Exactly.

Which makes the Hadiths (and for that matter, the Qur'an) suspect. They are all hearsay. Mohammed never, ever wrote anything down. Just like Jesus didn't write anything down.

Hm

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: dr1234

If I'm not mistaken you agreed with someone being antagonistic and calling for a nuclear attack on every Muslim...

Read the T&Cs and you'll realise that no agenda is there, it clearly says not to advocate or incite violent action!




Better yet why don't you explain why you think it's ok to nuke every Muslim?
Let's see if there is an agenda there!

I agreed that the media drives one towards feeling like all muslims should be nuked. I was commenting on the way they are demonized by the msm, I think that's thr point he was trying to make. I find the veiw itself ludicrous.

a reply to: dr1234

Fair enough pal...

So long as you know smugmushroom was actually being serious with his vitriol.
It wasn't sarcasm!

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
a reply to: dr1234

Fair enough pal...

So long as you know smugmushroom was actually being serious with his vitriol.
It wasn't sarcasm!

Than I concede that I may misinterpreted his post, there is no place for that anywhere. Appologies.

You claim that those of us who maintain that Islam is a religion of violence, which it is, do not understand Islamic teachings or sects, yet you are mistaken and are actually the one holding the incorrect position. I have familiarized myself with the Quran more recently and this is precisely why I have started to promote the following theory: Whenever violence is perpetrated in the name of religion, we can determine whether it is the fault of those partaking in the violence alone, or whether the religion itself is actually to blame, or rather both the religion and the perpetrators are to blame. How can we differentiate whether it is the fault of the religion or the people themselves? We simply see if the religion teaches violence. Therefore if Islam teaches violence against non-believers, then Islam is to blame, and people are correct to "lump all Muslims together," precisely because they are following a doctrine of violence and hatred.

If you would like me to offer up proof of my claims, then we will have to go to the source itself, the Quran. One thing that becomes readily apparent when studying the Quran is that its calls to violence often have no historical context, unlike other religious books like the Old Testament. Instead, Islam's statements are open-ended, and therefore are just as likely to be calling Muslims today to violence. In fact, it is sometimes quite obvious that this is the intention. Now of course not all Muslims are bad people, but that does not matter considering that violent ideologies of this type allow non-violent and otherwise moral people to justify the most heinous acts imaginable. And if one thinks that the non-violent Muslims will not join in with the violence if a group like ISIS establishes majority control, you are sorely mistaken.

What did Muhammed say when his people did not like the idea of violence? "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not." (Quran 2:216) I think that this verse clearly states that violence can be a good thing, and that Muslims should put aside their dislike of it when they are called to do so by their religion. But Islam is a religion of peace.

Or how about another one: "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them." (8:12) It should be no surprise that Muslim fighters seem obsessed with cutting off the heads of their prisoners. And consider that today and even in the Quran, many of these prisoners were innocent people who had done nothing to harm Muslims, which is part of the justification used for such violence.

And why are these fighters so zealous? It is because they have their religion on their side, and they know that it teaches them the following: "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward." (4:74)

And what does Islam think of "peaceful" Muslims? "Not equal are those believers who sit and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit. Unto all (believers) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (who do not fight) by a special reward..." (4:95)

And the claim that Jihad means a spiritual struggle is preposterous, and in fact the Quran claims that disabled individuals are exempt from Jihad, which makes no sense if it meant a spiritual struggle. I could keep going on all day with passages of this nature, because there are probably hundreds of them altogether in the Quran. So again OP, how is it that people are incorrect or somehow intolerant to condemn Islam, when Islam is clearly a religion of violence, in which persecution of non-Muslims is a way to gain the favor of the Islamic God? I've posted in the past on ATS regarding how Islam differs from all other major religions, some of which have examples of violence in them, but I will refrain from repeating that argument here, since this thread was specifically about Islam and how the OP feels that it is intolerant for us to say that all Muslims are bad people. That is NOT the point, because it doesn't matter...We need not fear the partial-Muslims, but only the true Muslims- those who actually follow what the Quran says. And if a Muslim is peaceful, then by the Islamic doctrine they are not a true Muslim. Again, I am arguing from the Quran itself, as that is the only source needed to condemn it as a violent book that teaches violence. Any instances of non-violence or compassion are often regarded for fellow Muslims, a point that is often overlooked. So Islam is a more peaceful religion when pertaining to other Muslims, moreso than anyone else, but Muslims kill other Muslims because they are taught to kill non-believers, and they view those Muslims who belong to a different sect as being non-believers.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Well, moderate muslims should start calling any group that distorts or changes their religion a cult. We all know these radical groups leaders just want money and power and they are just brainwashing their followers = cult.

Heres wiki for more proof..

Cult - In the sociological classifications of religious movements, a cult is a religious or other social group with socially deviant and novel beliefs and practices.

Sounds dead on to me. Should clear it up for the rest of us if it was labeled properly.

a reply to: JiggyPotamus

I have familiarized myself with the Quran more recently and this is precisely why I have started to promote the following theory:

Hold up there on that theory for a sec Ms. Potamus - you have familiarized yourself with the Quran?

Holy smokes! Good job

Have you read and reread the Quran - for yourself, and come to your own conclusions? Or did you have a kind of primer - to help you sort it all out?

Sources please - and, your word of honor

:-)

I'm sure you must realize - there are people who've been studying the Bible and the Quran for years (and years...) that can and do disagree with each other. They're what we might call experts. I guess :-)

So, about your recently educated guess as to which fables are the most accurate - well, you're not really one to be pointing fingers is what I mean to say

Finally, you offer proof of what? That all Muslims deserve your hatred?

Why don't you reread the OP. He really wasn't asking about how much you think you know. But, you do kinda make his point for him