Nephews Who Are Army Officers Recently Asked "Are You Prepared To Kill US Citizens?"

originally posted by: bludragin
a reply to: NavyDoc

I see your point. Being new here, I'm still learning to navigate this at times most challenging environment. If the mods want to take my OP down for the reasons you point out, I'm fine with that. I have no problem with how you addressed your concerns in regard to the data I shared, as you did it in a respectful way. Some others here do not seem to have this capability. I do appreciate this second reply. Namaste.

No worries. I found the survey I was talking about:

Veteran readers of THE NEW AMERICAN are vibrantly aware of the May 10, 1994 "Combat Arms Survey" administered to 300 active-duty Marines at the USMC’s Air-Ground Combat Center, Twenty-Nine Palms, California. Among its 46 questions, the Marines were asked if they would be willing to swear to a United Nations code of conduct and if they would fire on Americans who refused to turn over their privately owned weapons to the government. Other questions sought their approval or disapproval about their involvement in an assortment of operations far removed from proper military assignments, some of which would even place them under formal UN command.

We have talked at length with the author of this survey, Navy Lieutenant Commander Ernest Guy Cunningham, and about his motivation in creating it. He provided us with a copy of the 197-page thesis he wrote after analyzing the responses given by the Marines. His thesis helped him to earn a Master of Science degree in the area of manpower, personnel, and training analysis from the Naval Postgraduate School in Monterey, California.

Anxious to defend himself from charges he is pro-UN, Cunningham repeatedly contended in his interview with THE NEW AMERICAN that he is no enemy of America and no participant in any plan to demoralize U.S. troops. He maintained emphatically that he wanted only to confirm and then pass on to higher authorities his fears about "the lack of knowledge among the soldiers about the U.S. Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and their heritage as Americans." He added: "I’m a life member of the National Rifle Association, an ardent constitutionalist, and I’m even disappointed with the NRA spokesmen who don’t do a very good job defending their position."

JPFO Article Link

Not saying that this is the same thing, after all, it was 20 years ago, just that it's similar and the thread made me think of it.

originally posted by: bludragin

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: bludragin

Understood.

In keeping with the thread topic I have several high school friends who joined the armed forces and many of them have confided in me that they have been asked similar questions. It seems to me that the this question goes around a lot. Again as in your case, I did not ask for context or specifics, only expressed mild dismay. My buddies didn't seem too shaken up about it though.

For clarification: One was Army active duty with three tours in the Middle East, the other a Marine (who never told me much about deployments)

Yes, I just replied to another respondent that what really struck my sister and I as odd is my nephews have only served overseas, in Afghanistan. So it seemed a bit jolting to hear they were asked this question. My sister was not comfortable saying anything more to me on this, and I am relatively certain they would not have told her anything more, anyway.

Certainly if they are senior officers, they've served more than just overseas. I think you mean only operational tours overseas. Even OCS counts as serving somewhere. Not busting your chops, just giving you some insight.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: bludragin

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: bludragin

Understood.

In keeping with the thread topic I have several high school friends who joined the armed forces and many of them have confided in me that they have been asked similar questions. It seems to me that the this question goes around a lot. Again as in your case, I did not ask for context or specifics, only expressed mild dismay. My buddies didn't seem too shaken up about it though.

For clarification: One was Army active duty with three tours in the Middle East, the other a Marine (who never told me much about deployments)

Yes, I just replied to another respondent that what really struck my sister and I as odd is my nephews have only served overseas, in Afghanistan. So it seemed a bit jolting to hear they were asked this question. My sister was not comfortable saying anything more to me on this, and I am relatively certain they would not have told her anything more, anyway.

Certainly if they are senior officers, they've served more than just overseas. I think you mean only operational tours overseas. Even OCS counts as serving somewhere. Not busting your chops, just giving you some insight.

Yes, you are correct. It is all rather mysterious to me, all this military workings stuff. They are pretty mum about things in general, which is why my sister (their mother) was surprised they mentioned this question to her. It was not typical of them. They seemed, as I said before, disturbed. And, I am imagining, conflicted.

originally posted by: bludragin

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: bludragin

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: bludragin

Understood.

In keeping with the thread topic I have several high school friends who joined the armed forces and many of them have confided in me that they have been asked similar questions. It seems to me that the this question goes around a lot. Again as in your case, I did not ask for context or specifics, only expressed mild dismay. My buddies didn't seem too shaken up about it though.

For clarification: One was Army active duty with three tours in the Middle East, the other a Marine (who never told me much about deployments)

Yes, I just replied to another respondent that what really struck my sister and I as odd is my nephews have only served overseas, in Afghanistan. So it seemed a bit jolting to hear they were asked this question. My sister was not comfortable saying anything more to me on this, and I am relatively certain they would not have told her anything more, anyway.

Certainly if they are senior officers, they've served more than just overseas. I think you mean only operational tours overseas. Even OCS counts as serving somewhere. Not busting your chops, just giving you some insight.

Yes, you are correct. It is all rather mysterious to me, all this military workings stuff. They are pretty mum about things in general, which is why my sister (their mother) was surprised they mentioned this question to her. It was not typical of them. They seemed, as I said before, disturbed. And, I am imagining, conflicted.

They very concept should be disturbing to good officers. Protecting their fellow Americans is the very reason why many of them sign up in the first place.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: bludragin

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: bludragin

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: bludragin

Understood.

In keeping with the thread topic I have several high school friends who joined the armed forces and many of them have confided in me that they have been asked similar questions. It seems to me that the this question goes around a lot. Again as in your case, I did not ask for context or specifics, only expressed mild dismay. My buddies didn't seem too shaken up about it though.

For clarification: One was Army active duty with three tours in the Middle East, the other a Marine (who never told me much about deployments)

Yes, I just replied to another respondent that what really struck my sister and I as odd is my nephews have only served overseas, in Afghanistan. So it seemed a bit jolting to hear they were asked this question. My sister was not comfortable saying anything more to me on this, and I am relatively certain they would not have told her anything more, anyway.

Certainly if they are senior officers, they've served more than just overseas. I think you mean only operational tours overseas. Even OCS counts as serving somewhere. Not busting your chops, just giving you some insight.

Yes, you are correct. It is all rather mysterious to me, all this military workings stuff. They are pretty mum about things in general, which is why my sister (their mother) was surprised they mentioned this question to her. It was not typical of them. They seemed, as I said before, disturbed. And, I am imagining, conflicted.

They very concept should be disturbing to good officers. Protecting their fellow Americans is the very reason why many of them sign up in the first place.

I can say without a shred of doubt that my nephews are two such men: Good officers. Beloved and respected by their men. True patriots, in the best sense of the words. Both top of their classes in school, including military school. And two of the smartest, nicest guys you ever could meet. Like I said, if they mentioned this to my sister, then I have to assume they were very troubled indeed.

a reply to: bludragin

So I'm trying to piece this together. You have two nephews who are high ranking officers and Helicopter pilots in the US Army. Currently they are serving in Afghanistan. During an interview by a higher ranking officer they were asked if they could order subordinates to shoot US citizens on US soil. They call their mom and tell her about the interview but give no more details and do not tell her their answers...

Were other soldiers asked this? What type of interview were they going thru? Was it a fitness evaluation/OER?

I have never heard a first hand account of anyone in the military being asked this question. I have heard it discussed around the Wardroom/Chief's Mess and around a campfire...drinking, of course...but have never heard something like this discussed in an interview. Just seems odd.

Why would Helo Pilots get asked about ordering subordinates to fire? I could see an infantry O-5 or below being asked that but a Helo Pilot? I'd really need to know what the context of the interview was. Was it a Medical Officer asking them in order to gauge their fitness before returning to the states?

Sorry for all the questions.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: bludragin
a reply to: NavyDoc

Understood. I shared what I know. In the "Gray" area of ATS. I drew no conclusions. I asked ATS members what they think. That's it. I did not realize that the gray section requires that we write posts that meet scholarly peer reviewed standards.

What you don't know is Lucidity has decided to target me and attempt to discredit me here, and elsewhere. I've been here a week. I've received two applauses for two separate Ebola posts from the moderators. So I am apparently not as incompetent as she would like you all to think.

Go see the "Ebola Inside Information" post. The OP also was not ethically able to reveal all the details from his sources. The mods checked it out and left it up. And it is now a top post.

I see no issues in my having done the same.

Target you? Dream on. But you are now reported, not targeted. I've participated in your threads exactly twice this week, and perhaps they themselves might be what might be more fairly classified "targets" with the amount of editing going on.

Now, go ahead and call me an idiot again like you did in your other thread (it's too late to edit that), and accuse me of ludicrous things and continue to make more asinine assumptions here and keep patting yourself on the back if that's what floats your boat.

More to the point, I grew up in a professional military family and married into one. I am quite familiar with this decades-old conversation for this reason and from my time here as well. That is all I was trying to convey, in addition to seeing how it relates to current events.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Be my guest. The post you refer to clearly shows that you made multiple accusations regarding my edits, and my ethics, that were not true. It is easily proven by reading the thread. My sense is you are not used to people standing up to you. Too bad.

I trust the mods to read the threads carefully, and am hoping they will contact me directly to hear my side of things. The fact is, you are indeed targeting me, and you attempted to discredit me, and I am now respectfully asking you to stop.

a reply to: Feltrick

As stated in a previous reply, I don't know details of my nephews careers. I know they command troops, and I know they pilot helicopters, or, they used to. Not sure if they are in more of a non airborne role now. As for the rest, my replies to other respondents reveal the little I know. Again, this is the gray area of ATS.If my post is inappropriate, the mods will take it down.

I feel that this is probably a standard question as they as supposed to protect against foreign and domestic violence.

There have been stories of people who live in the U.S. but are joining forces with ISIS and what not here. Those people would be considered a domestic threat and if enough people joined forces with them, we'd have a VERY BIG domestic threat, in which case the Army might be called in.


Or in another case, how Ferguson is playing out, and the continued lack of trust when it comes to police, which is continued by police brutality... If riots (Yes, riots. These stopped being protests when people started being scared to walk outside. It became riots when the gangs took over. And it because riots when the looting started.) were to go outside of Ferguson it could be considered a domestic threat, in which, again, the Army may be brought in.


I think it's fairly standard and it's being taken out of context. Until I know what context it was asked in, and why, I'm taking your statement with a grain of salt.

a reply to: Feltrick

And no, they did not call their mother to tell her of the interview. She was told in person by one during a leave, but later learned both were asked.

originally posted by: Lyxdeslic
I feel that this is probably a standard question as they as supposed to protect against foreign and domestic violence.

There have been stories of people who live in the U.S. but are joining forces with ISIS and what not here. Those people would be considered a domestic threat and if enough people joined forces with them, we'd have a VERY BIG domestic threat, in which case the Army might be called in.


Or in another case, how Ferguson is playing out, and the continued lack of trust when it comes to police, which is continued by police brutality... If riots (Yes, riots. These stopped being protests when people started being scared to walk outside. It became riots when the gangs took over. And it because riots when the looting started.) were to go outside of Ferguson it could be considered a domestic threat, in which, again, the Army may be brought in.


I think it's fairly standard and it's being taken out of context. Until I know what context it was asked in, and why, I'm taking your statement with a grain of salt.

I drew no conclusions in my OP. I asked only for members thoughts. Thanks for your reply.

a reply to: bludragin

Thanks for the reply back. Definitely sounds ominous but, without more info, I don't think anyone can truly know the truth of the matter...except the two involved. As I said, I have never had a first hand account of a situation like this nor have I experienced it. Not that it didn't happen, just I need more information.

Again, thanks for the replies...I'll definitely keep an eye on this thread for further details.

a reply to: bludragin

Did you talk to your nephews YOURSELF?

And confirm, not through their mother, that they were specifically asked this?

There could be a huge difference in content and context between what neurotic mother who reads paranoid right wing chain emails interpreted and the truth.

What is the context again? Stopping an active shooter, like the Ft Hood attacker? Of course soldiers would.

a reply to: bludragin

Dying is the easy part. Not too concerned.

originally posted by: bludragin

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: bludragin

originally posted by: ScientificRailgun
a reply to: bludragin

Understood.

In keeping with the thread topic I have several high school friends who joined the armed forces and many of them have confided in me that they have been asked similar questions. It seems to me that the this question goes around a lot. Again as in your case, I did not ask for context or specifics, only expressed mild dismay. My buddies didn't seem too shaken up about it though.

For clarification: One was Army active duty with three tours in the Middle East, the other a Marine (who never told me much about deployments)

Yes, I just replied to another respondent that what really struck my sister and I as odd is my nephews have only served overseas, in Afghanistan. So it seemed a bit jolting to hear they were asked this question. My sister was not comfortable saying anything more to me on this, and I am relatively certain they would not have told her anything more, anyway.

Certainly if they are senior officers, they've served more than just overseas. I think you mean only operational tours overseas. Even OCS counts as serving somewhere. Not busting your chops, just giving you some insight.

Yes, you are correct. It is all rather mysterious to me, all this military workings stuff. They are pretty mum about things in general, which is why my sister (their mother) was surprised they mentioned this question to her. It was not typical of them. They seemed, as I said before, disturbed. And, I am imagining, conflicted.

If it was so "jolting to hear" and she was so "surprised" they mentioned it to her why the hell didn't she ask what their answer was? Especially if they were "disturbed" or "conflicted". Can you see that would make no sense? Most parents ask follow up questions to things like this.

Looking forward to your reply.

a reply to: howmuch4another

Maybe she actually respects her children? My mother often holds back on asking something because she knows I'll tell her if I want to and have a right to privacy.

a reply to: bludragin

There is many problems with the US.

The question should be "Are you ready to kill corrupt American citizens?"

#1 America has a lot of gangs corrupting the country internally and externally trying to get rich and control territory. The civilians are no longer Militia like their forefather when fighting for freedom from the British Empire in the past. We go stupid Gun Fanatics, we got anti-guns, and gun aggressive nature rather than civilians who know what to do before shooting someone to death.

Just because some thief comes to your house no one asks him why and just randomly shoot to kill nature come outs(this is how bad America became with gun). No question ask, shoot and kill anyone on your territory. If I had a gun, I'd shoot the foot and then ask questions.

#2 There are false Americans living in the country, using America to get away from war they started, etc. These factions such as Nazis and Corrupt Corporations will do evil on other countries and run away to America. Some factions such as Nazis using the constitution law of free speech and right to bear arms to keep their territory.

In truth, Your American ancestors would line up these Nazis(for example) and shoot them like the Soviet Union.
In the past we hung leaders(gang leaders mostly) that tried to divide a nation/steal lots of money.

#3 Racism, and division of groups is the main cause of Gangs rising in US(consider these gang racists). This all started with the KKK and now Remnants of some Black Africans(Black gangs specific) who don't give a two # about American rights or using it as an advantage. These gangs are not helpful to the world because they don't like working with other races. Therefore a degrade on society and Mafia style control just like Italian Mafia. Working together doesn't necessarily mean race mixing, that is different. We don't want to become Egyptian like again.

#4 Which is new now a days since WW2, is what you called Mad Scientist. This happened in Nazi Germany where they plan to take over a country and think they are god because they invented something to destroy something or think it can help the nation. This is exactly like corporation taking over a country because they have the technology. They do not make good leaders. Lesson is learnt from CIA MK Ultra, to Nazi experimental subjects, and Japan Unit 731. Those stupid enough to follow them and capture people to be experimental subject was later on became an experimental subject themselves. They have their own agenda compare to the Government, an it is not a good one for sure.

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: howmuch4another

Maybe she actually respects her children? My mother often holds back on asking something because she knows I'll tell her if I want to and have a right to privacy.

Maybe she asked. But I wouldn't know. She would respect the need for confidentiality. And, I respect my sister's loyalty to her sons.

a reply to: bludragin

I'm not sure if it has any bearing on the OP, but my daughter's fiancé is AF, and currently stationed in Italy. She was speaking with him today by phone, and he stated that he called her to let her know that his base was put on lockdown, this morning. But, according to her, it was due to a credible ISIS threat. And not ebola related...