First hint of 'life after death' in biggest ever scientific study

Here's an experience from Anita Moorjani. This explains exactly what I've been saying. What seems to happen at death is you go from local consciousness to non local awareness. In the body, your quantum mind is tethered to your body so you see things from a 3 dimensional local frame of reference.

When you die, the quantum mind loses that entangled state and you see everything from a non local 4 dimensional awareness. This seems to be a common feature in near death experiences. People go from a local frame of reference to a non local frame of reference when they die or are dying.

Anita Moorjani, an ethnic Indian woman from Hong Kong, had end stage cancer (Hodgkin's Lymphoma) and was being cared for at home, but on the morning of February 2, 2006 she did not wake up. She had fallen into a coma. Doctors said she would not make it beyond the next 36 hours since her organs were no longer functioning and her body had started to swell up, creating open skin lesions. In spite of this, Anita saw and heard the conversations between her husband and the doctors that were taking place outside her room about 40 feet away down a hallway. She also saw her brother on a plane, having heard the news that she was dying, coming to see her. Both things were later confirmed.

Then she claims to have "crossed over to another dimension, where I was engulfed in a total feeling of love. I also experienced extreme clarity of why I had the cancer, why I had come into this life in the first place, what role everyone in my family played in my life in the grand scheme of things, and generally how life works. I realized what a gift life was, and that I was surrounded by loving spiritual beings, who were always around me even when I did not know it. I found out that my purpose now would be to live ‘heaven on earth' using this new understanding, and also to share this knowledge with other people."

Doctors were quite surprised and, once Anita became stable, they started tracking down the lymph nodes they saw when she entered the hospital. Tests had shown swollen lymph nodes and tumors the size of lemons extending from the base of her skull all the way to her lower abdomen, but doctors found none. They did a bone marrow biopsy, again to find the cancer activity so they could adjust the chemotherapy according to the disease, but there wasn't any in the bone marrow. Because they were unable to understand what was going on, they made her undergo test after test, all of which Anita passed easily. She then had a full body scan, and because they could not find anything, they made the radiologist repeat it again.

www.oddee.com...

Check out this video. It's fascinating stuff. She did this at a TED talk.

a reply to: Chewingonmushrooms

I get what you are saying. I don't believe in a higher power and don't hold others in contempt who do. I want to peacefully co-exist and while I might not believe in any religion, I do have a moral compass. Who knows, I could be wrong as I'm only human.

I'm only half joking around.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
It's is a little bit similar to Schrödinger's cat, in that nothing can be known, until the state about which one wishes to learn before reaching that state, has in fact been reached. Until that point, there is no way to know for certain if there is an afterlife, and if there is, what shape it might take. One might carry their own beliefs about these things, and I know that I certainly do. However, I think that any effort to quantify these things prior to actually being dead ones self, is somewhat bloody stupid, and a waste of time which could be better spent on a myriad of other issues affecting the affairs of the body and mind.

Like all powerful proofs that can't nail down the target directly you use a contradiction and then bootstrap the process with inductive reasoning.

At a bare minimum we can determine if our understanding of the cognitive process is incorrect. You don't need complete decomposition of the body to reach a point where cognition and awareness are believed to cease. As an example, consider people that are under anesthesia. Their body is functional but they have no awareness, higher-functions, or memory.

In theory, with enough iterations, you could narrow this down to some external influence that is not a part of our physical understanding.

It's is a little bit similar to Schrödinger's cat, in that nothing can be known

I believe that it is closer to Bell's Theorem which shows that no physical theory of local hidden variables will be consistent with quantum mechanics. More specifically, the "spooky action at a distance" cannot be accounted for with any local hidden variables in the system.

In this analogy, the action at a distance such as quantum entanglement, is equivalent to an idealized near-death experience; admittedly not as refined. The notion that we could never know because of some local hidden variable we have yet to measure is equivalent to your "not-dead-can't-observe" statement.

and a waste of time which could be better spent on a myriad of other issues affecting the affairs of the body and mind

I was on the fence about responding to this thread, but it was this line in particular that made me want to reply. I wanted to share a thought with you and get your opinion. I believe that most of our problems that we face today ultimately trace back to fear. It seems to be within our nature to fear. I suspect that any significant attenuation of that fear on a global scale would have a huge positive ripple effect. Consider many of the people that have had NDE's and the positive impact it has had on their life. Typically they are no longer afraid of death and devote themselves to meaningful and productive tasks that they otherwise felt prohibited from doing due to invisible hurdles that effortlessly vanished (discounting the bothersome near-death bit).

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
It could also be that there is in fact brain activity, but not something that can be picked up by the current technological limits of the EEG.

Most of the NDE accounts I have read where people had no measureable brainwave activity described states of hyper consciousness, where they were more awake and aware than they ever have been and returned back with crystal clear memories of the events.

Contrast this with people on drugs with cloudy and chaotic memories or even blackouts.

That is a pretty neat trick where brainwave activity decreases so much that it is no longer measureable by human equipment and yet the states of some of these people is the same or exceeds their waking awareness.

I can't think of any electronic devices on this earth that operate better with decreased or 0 measureable currents and voltages.

From a materialistic point of view, if an EEG cannot measure their brainwave patterns, then clearly, they are not operating at full operational efficiency and our understanding of how the brain works is flawed.

Or

IMHO, I believe our mind and thoughts are not only created and stored only at the physical level.
I think our memories are stored in an energy field that occupies the same space as the body. Sort of like a capacitor that stores energy between its plates.

When I get up in the morning and take my time and sit for a bit at the end of my bed, I can recall my dreams with vivid detail and can recall it later as well.
If I get up in the morning and rush off to work, I do not have any recollection of ever having dreamed.

It feels like I downloaded my dreams into physical memory from some other place for recall later.

a reply to: neoholographic

Thank you for that ted talk, it was an amazing experience that she shared. That's something that's certainly hard to dismiss.

a reply to: compressedFusion

Fair point. Your Bells Theorem analogy is more nuanced, and more appropriate to the subject matter.

With regard to the suggestion that fear is a source of a great many things in our lives as human beings, yes I would say that is very accurate. Human beings like to think that by and large, they are evolved, carry secret beliefs in their otherness, when compared with animals like dogs, cats, mice, lizards...

But these beliefs are only partly accurate, in that although we have developed many methods to further separate ourselves from the animal Kingdom, in that we build complicated architectures to shield ourselves and our families from the elements, travel using other animals, or cars, or other contraptions, rather than running around everywhere, the architecture of our physical brains still contains segments which are solely to do with pure, animal survival instincts. These segments are some of the oldest structures in a human brain, in terms of their origins in pre history.

The reason they have been retained, and still have so much power over the actions of human beings, is that in some respects, the ability to live another day, is directly related to the ability of the human animal to fulfil other biological imperatives, and so the fight or flight response dictated by these ancient structures, could be argued to be one of the most important functions in the human neurophysiology. No, one will never win a Nobel prize by allowing that part of ones brain to override the rest, but they may live long enough to protect their offspring, or live long enough to pro-create at all!

Now, as to the effect of an NDE involving some sort of actual stoppage of recordable life signs being a good example of creating the circumstances necessary for a life without fear, that may well be the case, and it sounds utopian. However, fear is necessary. Irrational fear is not necessary, and the world could do with far less of that.

But fear is necessary, because it keeps you looking left and right when you cross the road, keeps your hand steady when you use a knife to cut your food, rather than wafting it around like an incense stick at a love in. It ensures that one has awareness of ones surroundings when one walks through the harsher parts of town, and wakes one up when unfamiliar and threatening noises issue forth from ones neighbourhood. As much as we may have moved on in form, and in daily routine, in ways which diverge totally from the evolutionary approach that other mammals have taken, we share the common requirement for a healthy amount of fear, an awareness of our own fragility, and a desire not to be shattered by circumstances without attempting to respond to them.

Also, I question the idea that NDE involving out of body experiences need necessarily be positive. There have been cases where they were in fact ghastly for the person experiencing them, and far from leading to a state of grace and peace, lead the people in question to radically change their behaviour to encompass MORE fear, not less, fear of dying, fear of danger of every kind, fear of everything from dogs to lamp posts, and everything including the kitchen sink.

It takes Some time for You're brain to leave You're energy, you know? People have awakened from death several hours after the time of death, in the old days they set bells on their dead relatives's fingers just because of that.. You're not Dead until You're dead... Before you die You're brain realeses Some substance that is the same that is released when you fall asleep, search it up, you can find this everywhere on the internet!
Blind people can learn to "see", And for us seeing people, watching ER series And movies, ( creating memories), And not bring totally dead, we can still use our ears, so mix it up, memories, fantasy brain acid ,And listening to sounds... There You go xD
OR! I'm completely wrong And we all fly pointless around in space after death AS undying energy, searching for new hosts!

a reply to: surrealist

I could report the same thing, but does it mean it's true, or would you say being under local anesthetic does strange things to the mind?

a reply to: Korg Trinity

how do you know ?

Maybe in a similar way you can "see yourself" doing things when you are dreaming.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. I have never seen myself in a dream. I am always viewing events (however strange and surreal they may be) from a first person perspective.

a reply to: Thatthing

originally posted by: Thatthing
It takes Some time for You're brain to leave You're energy, you know? People have awakened from death several hours after the time of death, in the old days they set bells on their dead relatives's fingers just because of that.. You're not Dead until You're dead...

The difference between now and then is that we can actually measure activity of the brain.

In Pam Reynold's NDE case, the doctor said:

"The metabolic activity of the brain was stopped. Every measurable output that the body puts out dissappeared completely to have no measurable neuronal activity whatsoever, and that it is not possible to have audio or visual perception in the condition that her physical body was in."

originally posted by: Mogget

Maybe in a similar way you can "see yourself" doing things when you are dreaming.

I am not sure what you are trying to say here. I have never seen myself in a dream. I am always viewing events (however strange and surreal they may be) from a first person perspective.

For me, it depends on when I recall a dream.

If I wake up and begin to remember the dream I was just having prior to waking up, it is from a first-person perspective. However, if it is a dream that I recall later in the day (or sometimes it might be a dream that I had the day before that I am just then recalling), then it is sometimes in the third-person, as if I was recalling watching a stage play or a movie of the event.

I'm not sure why there is a difference, but it may be that the dreams I am recalling later, my deep brain is trying to fill in the memory of these almost-forgotten dreams, and it seems that my brain is presenting that memory more like a play that I am watching from the audience --- while in the case of those dreams I remember immediately upon waking up (because I was experiencing those dreams first-hand when I woke up) my memory of them is still so fresh in my mind that I remember them as they happened from a first-person perspective.

I fact, many of my oldest memories (say from childhood) are more third-person style memories, while my most recent memories (such as what may have happened 30 seconds ago) are first-person. Again, I think that is because for those old memories, my brain is striving to fill in missing parts of the memory any way that it can.

m.youtube.com...

Do not go into the light...

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: Tangerine

He was unconscious though. Did you miss that part?

No, I didn't miss that part. What does awareness while being unconscious have to do with an "eternal soul" as the OP suggested?

The Brain Stops functioning in both cases.

Fair study if you ask me.

a reply to: neoholographic

Sorry but I don't buy her story ! I mean come on! If I was giving a presentation on how I had lemon sized tumors in my body and then one day woke up and everything was gone and I was fine a huge part of my presentation would incorporate photographic evidence!!!! Where are the actual scans? Doctors notes? Diagnoses etc. could she not find one doctor who would stand up and atleast verify her cancer and medical condition?

That's what I don't get about people like her that make these claims. Part of your entire point of recovery and NDE is trying to convince people of amazing things to believe in, an entire different outlook on life. So in people's mind what makes her so different than the Tony Robbins and Joel Osteens of the world. There are some very elaborate scams and very crazy people out there in the world....desperate people. She could be a complete liar.....or not.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Thank you for the well thought out reply.

I agree that the fear response is built into our brain as a survival mechanism. That response is still needed today for many of the reasons you listed. Arguably one of the biggest differences today is the artificial stress which invokes the fight or flight response within us. The issue is that this response is now often triggered for stressors which have nothing to do with survival. I believe the constant stimulus of modern stress results in a runaway negative feedback loop much like an op-amp that has no reference connected. It will begin to rail and not perform the intended function.

I didn’t mean to imply that all NDE cases are positive. In fact many experiences are understandably quite traumatic. The positive cases are an example of the positive changes that could happen when people are no longer consumed by their base fears. I use the word consumed because I believe it is easy to be consumed and rail out in the face of constant artificial stress. I agree about there being a healthy level of fear, but I don’t think we have that balance as a whole.

It is not just about the stress. It is also about the confidence gained from knowing. If everybody on this planet knew with near certainty that death is the beginning of something new then we would be asking ourselves entirely different questions. What is my purpose here? What goal should I fulfill? Perhaps the directive of caring for one another becomes that much clearer.

This wouldn’t be a utopia because there would always be conflict derived from emotion and the chaos of life. I think it might be an improvement though. Therefore I don’t believe it is fruitless to pursue that knowledge.

originally posted by: Eagleyedobserver

originally posted by: Tangerine

originally posted by: tavi45
a reply to: Tangerine

He was unconscious though. Did you miss that part?

No, I didn't miss that part. What does awareness while being unconscious have to do with an "eternal soul" as the OP suggested?

The Brain Stops functioning in both cases.

Fair study if you ask me.

Well, "The brain stops functioning" as far as our current scientific understanding of the brain goes.

However, we may not know all there is to know about brain functions and how to detect and measure those functions. In fact, I'll bet there are plenty of things science is yet to learn about brain functions. There may be other brain functions that we have not yet developed methods of detecting/measuring.

originally posted by: neoholographic

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
Again, that assumes that our scientific knowledge is vast enough to understand exactly what it it means when they say "her brain was not functioning". Do we know enough about the detailed workings of the human brain to say positively that her brain had no function whatsoever?

That's the way science works. There is always a degree of uncertainty even if it is 1%. If we reject all information based on it not being "vast enough to understand exactly" , then we would have no starting place because even the 5 sense of the human being can be doubted as to whether or not the human sense perceive reality 100% accurately.

In that video (between the 3rd and 4th minute of the video), the doctor explained the process of the surgery saying this:

The metabolic activity of the brain was stopped. Every measurable output that the body puts out dissappeared completely to have no measurable neuronal activity whatsoever, and that it is not possible to have audio or visual perception in the condition that her physical body was in.

Excellent points.

The only way to try and refute this is to try and change the definition of dead. This is what always occurs when results come back that people don't agree with.

That may be what people said 200 years ago when "dead" meant when a person's heart stopped. Back then, they figured there was no way a person could still be alive once their heart stopped, but now we know better.

We now have a better definition of "dead", but that doesn't mean that we now have the best possible/ultimate definition of "dead". We should not be so arrogant to think that we know every possible thing there is to know about brain activity.

Maybe these reports ARE reports of afterlife. However, we should not discount the possibility that there are still brain activities going on in these people that our current EEG technology and our current understanding cannot yet detect.

A few decades ago, there were brain activities that our technology could not detect that can be detected today. Perhaps decades from now, we will be able to detect brain activities that we cannot detect today.

I want to believe in an afterlife and I kinda do.

But I believe there is no way mere human science will ever reveal such a thing. This is not hard proof of such a thing. Maybe the afterlife is outside of the five senses, so science cannot detect such a thing?

As mcuh as I respect science and as great as it is, it's still human science: knowledge generated through the scientific method which is based on presuppositions of an observer (meatbag with five senses) in a vast universe. Science is actually incredibly limited when looking at the bigger picture of things. It serves its purpose just fine for us though, at least I think so.

"the biggest ever scientific study''-Those working at CERN would debate that.