US Nurses: We Can't Handle Ebola!

a reply to: lovebeck

I fully support your stance, lovebeck. This has been a terrific thread, btw, some good give-and-take discussion here.

I think what I would want everyone reading this thread to realize is that leaving hospital nursing does not mean that one stops being a nurse. There are nursing jobs in the community, in industry, in teaching, in associations, in private practice and the list goes on, all of which require the special knowledge and skills nurses have. There is always a staffing turnover in hospitals, as people move on elsewhere. I've been lucky enough to land two really rewarding ones, both requiring an RN.

But back on topic, what this thread seems to show is that there is a point where hospital nurses feel overwhelmed by the risks and lack of concrete support nurses need in order to function in the ebola situation because they are and will be in the first line of defense. Someone needs to listen to the explicitly expressed needs or the consequences will really impact the community. At the moment they are sounding the alarm because there is a confirmed case in hospital already and those leaders who should be addressing those concerns in other hospitals are apparently failing to do so.

So it is left up to nurses to decide for themselves when it becomes too risky, too overwhelming and stressful. Is it when they arrive at work to find out that someone has just been tested for ebola? Or is it when someone tests positive and then TSHTF in the hospital and community? Will the equipment be there in a flash? There was a patient in Toronto who had ebola-like symptoms and was placed in isolation, but happily the results just came back negative.

I continue to have faith in the system generally, although when weaknesses show themselves it's good to expose them if they are not acted upon. Wishing everyone the very best in happy outcomes.

originally posted by: OOOOOO
a reply to: lovebeck

If things get bad where are you going to hide.

Better get some of that colloidal silver in the spray bottle, some inject-able super high dose Vit. C, you know that's how those hemorrhagic's kill people, it depletes all your vit. C, then the person just bleed to death as their body melts away.

Hope everything works out, but has our government got a plan for us. Hope not, Thomas Jefferson, said if someone tells you they want to help you, run like Hell.

Let me know if you think I'm wong, that is my name Whaf Wong.

Trust me, we've got a plan. A great one if SHTF. I'm going to a rather mountainous and under populated place that is only a state away...We're prepared. We've got the basics, which is all u need. U learn to live off the land, hunt and cook your own food (including plants) and survive.

Would it suck? Absolutely, but I think we have a pretty good plan and if worse came to worse could get to our place on foot in a few days, or even on a raft in the freaking river if we had to. My hubby has all sorts of skills, as do I, so I do think we'd be a-ok.

a reply to: lovebeck

Great find. Important stuff (and very true).

F&S&

originally posted by: soficrow
a reply to: lovebeck

Great find. Important stuff (and very true).

F&S&

Thanks! Thought it was important to share how the majority of nurses really feel about up it...We will be the ones "dealing" with it it if becomes an epidemic in the US.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: ZIPMATT

It's far too infectious to bring to hospitals . While that may be hard to swallow , on the plus side , people die very quickly of it . Sorry about that .

For the sake of argument.

So we are quarantines in our homes without resources to care for the sick, no means to dispose of infected materials and all in the household succumb to the disease in time a handful survive. Okay so far as that goes - the medieval approach. Got it.

How are the containenanted bodies and materials going to be disposed of? "Bring out your dead" "Bring out containmentated bedding and whatnot".

Is that the world we live in? The dark ages?

Probably so.

As said , ebola is so contagious the principle concern is to manage transmission effectively . Making managing morbidity and death from the disease a lesser priority . Bringing it to hospitals would only serve to aid transmission .

"Homecare" ,in a nutshell , is what Dr. Brantly advised a senate committee a week or two ago . Brantly has had the disease and described the situation as " a fire straight from the pit of hell " , which could easily "burn whole countries to the ground" , if not contained .

It's not about what should or shouldn't be as regards hospitals and protecting staff , it's about whole scale community pragmatism and 'needs-musts' , in the face of a potential catastrophe .

More on why we are unprepared:

“Black Book initiated this annual survey to gain stakeholder insight into the technology support tools around hospital infection control, epidemiology and emergency preparedness systems,”said Doug Brown, Managing Partner.“What we learned additionally was that our hospitals are not as well prepared as we would like to think.”

So they were interested for economic reasons, not to be sure we're actually prepared for an outbreak?

“US hospitals may not be the ideal place to screen, diagnose, isolate and treat highly infectious patients,”said Brown.“Most are currently failing to control the spread of hospital acquired infections such as MRSA and C. difficile. Based on the track record controlling those infectious transmissions, hospitals are likely not capable of managing the radical precautions needed for Ebola.”

There it is, we are not ready for ebola.

Ameri can Hospitals Are Vastly Unprepared for Ebola Patients, Reveals Black Book™ Survey of Emergency Physicians, Nurses and Infection Control Practitioners

Just who is this published by?

Black Book Rankings, a division of Black Book Market Research LLC, provides healthcare IT users, media, investors, analysts, quality minded vendors, and prospective software system buyers, pharmaceutical manufacturers, and other interested sectors of the financial and clinical technology industries with comprehensive comparison data of the industry's top respected and competitively performing technology, services and outsourcing vendors.

So there is substantial research behind the assertion.

Doctor here. I know enough about protective equipment and too little of Ebola to ever agree to engage in contact with a patient suspected of it.

I'm ready to throw in the towel if it means risking my life and loved ones for a likely futile attempt at saving some idiot do-gooder missionary who wouldn't respect his own family.

Ebola is still a mysterious disease, and it will take many more casualties for science to properly elucidate its mode of transmission and reservoirs.

It is not just nurses who are unprepared, I'd say it is multiple levels of the various health departments.

To whit:

The county health inspector came in to the restaurant I manage today for a follow up visit and after he had concluded his business, I asked him if the county had updated any of their procedures due to the ebola epidemic.

He looked at me with a somewhat blank look on his face, and then said, "not a bit."

Granted he is a specialist nutritional health and food safety, but I (navely?) expected that all counties in Texas would provide any and all departments remotely related to health and safety updated information and protocols.

Nope.

I asked him what would happen if someone with the virus showed up in one of the local mcclinics.

That same blank look greeted me that answered my prior question.

I referenced UTMB, which is only a few blocks from where we sat, and said I was pretty sure (hopefully) they could handle the situation, but I told him I doubted one of the dozens of "emergency room light"s that had popped up over the last few years could deal.

I said that it was entirely plausible that this exact scenario could happen since we now have a case here in Texas and due to the sloppy handling by the CDC, there could easily be a number of indirect contacts that had been missed.

He said, "yeah, in Austin, right?"

The US medical system, laughingly called by US politicians "the best healthcare in the world" is inadequately prepared to handle ANY major outbreak of ANY illness.

A major outbreak of something like Ebola would quickly overwhelm US healthcare systems and hospitals.

Heck, the USA doesn't even have a central database of medical records, which is incredible in this day and age.

originally posted by: ZIPMATT

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: ZIPMATT

It's far too infectious to bring to hospitals . While that may be hard to swallow , on the plus side , people die very quickly of it . Sorry about that .

For the sake of argument.

So we are quarantines in our homes without resources to care for the sick, no means to dispose of infected materials and all in the household succumb to the disease in time a handful survive. Okay so far as that goes - the medieval approach. Got it.

How are the containenanted bodies and materials going to be disposed of? "Bring out your dead" "Bring out containmentated bedding and whatnot".

Is that the world we live in? The dark ages?

Probably so.

As said , ebola is so contagious the principle concern is to manage transmission effectively . Making managing morbidity and death from the disease a lesser priority . Bringing it to hospitals would only serve to aid transmission .

"Homecare" ,in a nutshell , is what Dr. Brantly advised a senate committee a week or two ago . Brantly has had the disease and described the situation as " a fire straight from the pit of hell " , which could easily "burn whole countries to the ground" , if not contained .

It's not about what should or shouldn't be as regards hospitals and protecting staff , it's about whole scale community pragmatism and 'needs-musts' , in the face of a potential catastrophe .

I hope the whole interaction can be dicerned from the above as I think this is an important discussion.

One - Ebola is transmitted by contact between infected body fluids and mucus membranes or direct contact with blood. It is possible to inhale a particle of a 'body fluid' and become infected however the virus it'sself is not 'air-borne' and I think that is a very important distinction.

Two - To control and limit contagion it is IMPERITIVE to SAFELY dispose of contaminated materials (bodies, bedding, beds, clothing, etc) PROMPTLY (to lessen possible exposure of the non-infected). Leaving people - 'in-situ' to care for their ill without the education, supplies and possiblity of disposal endangers those lay caregivers and the surrounding community.

I like the ideas of santatoriums for this or other contagious disease but their is no will from any front (maybe nurses) to provide safe and humane places to care and control contagious disease.

At the hospital where a Spanish nurse got Ebola, workers say their training was poor

They're protesting in Spain over their poor training.

In addition, Spanish officials to kill dog belonging to nurse with Ebola to stem possible spread

a reply to: FyreByrd

Hundreds maybe thousands of deadly sick, hyper-contagious people locked in a massive building.

Where are you going to find the staff to operate and manage this facility?

A sanitarium would be nothing but a death trap.

I don't think most people have a clue at what kind of nightmare we could be looking at if this thing ever hit critcal mass.

I don't want to terrify anyone into acting stupidly, but we should be vigilant, educated and prepared.

As an ER nurse, it thoroughly pisses me off when people say that nurses that threaten to quit due to the outbreak are not committed to their job. I love my job. in fact, sometimes I cannot wait to get back to work. the thrill of saving people's lives is a reward on it's own, even if for the most part, no patient ever says thank you. I would also gladly take care of an ebola patient, so long as I have the appropriate protection. but the cdc guidelines provide us with contact plus and droplet precautions only. which means no hazmat suit, no showers immediately after contact, no, none of that. just a mask, and not even an n95 mask, just a regular mask, and a gown, and gloves. that's NOT enough, it's not nearly enough. this is a travesty and it's placing all of Us, the tip of the spear, in tremendous danger. Why???? laboratories that deal with ebola give their employees and researchers hazmat suits. ebola is a level 4 biohazardous material. please look up what that means as far as protection. So why should nurses not have the same protection? you go ahead and put yourself in our position. many nurses are unaware of what biohazard levels and virulence are. ebola is easy to catch. a touch can give you ebola. give me the right protection and I am willing to do the job. place me on danger for no reason, and guess what? I Too will quit my job. I love my family too much to do this to them. a reply to: lovebeck

a reply to: andsal20

EXACTLY. Regular people just don't get it. At all.

They need to learn to LISTEN TO THE NURSES!!! We're the ones who knows what's going on because we understand it and realize that Respiratory Contact/Droplet protection is a joke when it comes to Ebola.

Hospitals are not going to shell out the money to cover the cost of the appropriate gear and education. Period. No wonder the CDC isn't mandating the appropriate protective gear...

originally posted by: lovebeck
a reply to: andsal20

EXACTLY. Regular people just don't get it. At all.

They need to learn to LISTEN TO THE NURSES!!! We're the ones who knows what's going on because we understand it and realize that Respiratory Contact/Droplet protection is a joke when it comes to Ebola.

Hospitals are not going to shell out the money to cover the cost of the appropriate gear and education. Period. No wonder the CDC isn't mandating the appropriate protective gear...

We are expendable. It is about profit only. It is going to take all of the medical service community to work as a united front to get the government, corporate, financial, medical complex to adequately provide for the safety and benefit of all healthcare workers.

I have to agree that we are not ready for this. I am not a nurse but was a certified dyalisis tech, and prior to that have worked front desk in ER's and doctors offices. I can tell you that there is no way I want to be doing any of those positions right now. I left the field when I had my son a couple years ago, so I'm not working now. But I wouldn't go back right now if I could.
I saw a lot in the ER and the one I worked for couldn't handle this if it makes it to them. Period. And I can't say doctors offices are better, most lack much in the way of PPE. And in most places I've worked they weren't willing to purchase any extra PPE just what they had too, it was also amazing how many either don't use all PPE avail or don't use it correctly. There are many that do take all possible precautions but this is a time when one mistake could have huge ramifications.
There are many nurses I was friends with and I am betting they too are not willing to take the chance.
The whole handling in Dallas is scary by itself and even more so to me because I live a few hrs away.
I do apologize if anything I'm saying is offensive to some, that's not my intent. I have seen a lot and made a lot of observations over the years. Not all of us that have been or are in the medical field take things as serious as they should. And many companies just aren't going to be willing to purchase the PPE that will be needed. And many of us don't want to chance our lives and that of our families.

sorry- wrong reply