US Nurses: We Can't Handle Ebola!

a reply to: sdcigarpig

Yes but how many other dogs or animals will the first one pass it to?

Scenario:

Stray dog comes along and samples a bit of the vomit puddle produced by patient zero. This dog then goes on to infect a pack of stray dogs before it clears out of this dog's sytem. Any number of which are taken in by variois means; Animal Control, hobo looking or family looking for a pet...

Before you know it, you have people coming down with the symptoms that are very much flu-like and have no reason to suspect that they have come into contact with one of the most dangerous pathogens known to man.

a reply to: lovebeck

I totally agree. You would be stupid as a nurse to even want to work when you know you are in great risk.
Not preparing every nurse is not smart.
And even if you are prepared ... It's your own choice. And I think you should draw the line right there.
Very smart.

a reply to: Daalder

Is it though? Is it really smart? I think it seems pretty short sighted, so lets say all these "smart" nurses leave, awesome, so now there are no nurses or definitely not enough... So then it spreads, people roaming around spreading the disease everywhere... How long till it comes to the "smart" nurses door?

What is the next move exactly?

Wouldn't it be smarter to actually deal with the problem? ie get the training and equipment? There are things the nurses can do!

Go to the local media and tell them
Go to town hall meeting and tell them
Tell everbody you can
Make banners telling the community that you NEED their support

Tell me, who in the community will NOT want you prepared for this? Seems pretty obvious you can get a LOT of support very quickly for something like this.

Just leaving when it hits seems a really really silly move to me.

As a mother of three young children, I don't blame the OP. I would hate to see my little ones suffer and the hands of Ebola because the hospital would not provide me with the proper equipment and preparation to deal with this deadly virus. Don't put blame on the nurses and doctors who want to protect their own families, blame the people who are really in charge. This is insane. Could you imagine watching your own children bleed to death, along with the other horrible symptoms that come with Ebola?

I made this post over in the thread about the Dallas Ebola case, but it seems to fit in well here too:

]originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: texasgirl

I also get questions now on what I think will happen. So weird to be in this postion!

Welcome to my world. The day before yesterday at work, none of my morning servers had even heard of the case, so I educated them.

By the time dinner came around, there was a group of 3 or 4 waiting for me in our private bar and when I walked in, one of them said, "we've been waiting to talk to you..."

I asked them what it was about, another one of them asked me, "do you know anything about 'these ebolas?'" - most of them are from south or central america, some from mexico; it is a mexican restaurant after all...

I asked them, "what do you think, do you think I know about it?"

They all nodded.

I asked them, "do you think I know a little or a lot?"

The first one said, "I think you probably know a lot."

I chuckled at that, and proceeded to educate them.

One of my co-managers had tickets to the big Texans Cowboys game this weekend.

Had.

How many thousands of screaming fans will be there this weekend from how many places across the country?

He listened to me because he knows a bit and he knows how much more than he I know, so it wasn't a very long conversation.

Another friend of mine passed it off as 'ebola hysteria' I provided her some links, she still doesn't buy it, but I will wager every cent I can get a hold of that she remembers what I've told her if this goes pear shaped.

I'm posting every few hours on Facebook hashtagging the cdc and ebola with incompetence and corruption, maybe we can make a big enough stink that they won't be able to ignore.

I advocated similar way back on the original Monster Fukushima thread (happy to see some of the same posters from there) regarding making a public outcry. I am doing so once more.

Trying to make sure this stays within T&C:

To all of you who do use the various social media, please ramp up your posting on this and linking relevant sites. Threads here (I keep linking the Diseases & Pandemics forum on major media Facebook pages), peer-reviewed research (if you need some links, let me know as I have amassed a HUGE amount of them, or you could peruse all of my posts over the past month and a half or so), news articles that might get buried are all valid posting material.

If we make enough noise, we can initiate a word quake and maybe we can make something happen.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

Apologies for this off topic rant, but like Fukushima, we are facing a foe that does not care what holy book you read, or whether you can even read at all and this is the best thing I can think of to do with what small resources are available to me.

I know I posted this on another thread. But according to the Mosby's Dictionary, Ebola is airborne. Sorry if it's a bit off topic.

Taken from the "Mosby's Dictionary of Medicine, Nursing & Health Professionals."

Ebola virus disease, an infection caused by a species of ribonucleic acid viruses of the Filovirus genus. There are four identified subtypes of Ebola virus. The usually lethal disease is characterized by hemorrhage and fever. The natural reservoir and method of transmission of primary infections are unknown, but secondary infection is by direct contact with infectious blood or other body secretions, in research settings, or by AIRBORNE particles. The incubation period ranges from 2 to 21 days. Initial symptoms include high fever, headache, chills, myalgia, sore throat, red itchy eyes, and malaise. Later symptoms include severe abdominal pain, chest pain, bleeding, shock, vomiting, diarrhea, Maculopapular rash may occur in some patients. Treatment is supportive; in nearly 90% of cases, death occurs within 1 week.

I decided to take the ole textbooks out from nursing school. In this medical dictionary, it stats that Ebola is in fact, airborne.

NO # SHERLOCK ... duh what do people think? The so called medical professionals are a joke in this country... period no if ands or buts ..

I have dealt with the failed medical industrial complex since the 90s when we started care giving for family elders and I have ZERO confidence in any hospital and very little confidence in the workers....

For a look at what will happen in the USA with Ebola just look at the MRSA epidemic and the complete and utter failure of the medical industry to take care of people infected with MRSA ....

Healthcare workers brought MRSA into our home and contaminated everyone in it and never told us for months .... I remember working in the nuke plant and the controls to keep radioactive contamination from spreading and these protocols should be put in the hospitals .....

and if you remember who paid for all of the MRSA related treatment ... it wasn't the big pharma, hospitals and nursing homes who paid the bills because of MRSA infections in the community .....

it was you, your insurance and the government who paid those bills ....

if the photos of the jackasses using a pressure washer to clean Ebola puke off a sidewalk and wash it down the drain aren't enough of a clue for ya ... you better hang on for the ride

Here is another question what we should be asking and one that I saw today. What do you do when the person is sick and on an airplane that lands at an international airport, where the person is coming from a region that has an Ebola Outbreak? What then, how will it affect those communities, cities and states?

This is happening right now, in New Jersey, where the person is throwing up and came from Liberia, landing in Newark. All of those people on the air plane are stuck without having means to get away and if the man does have Ebola, then what?

a reply to: Lovelyful

Huge difference between an airborne PARTICLE and an airborne DISEASE.

What airborne means in the medical community and what it means in the lay community is very different as well.

Ebola is transmissible 3-4 feet through particles "in the air" during the infection period.

EDT - until it mutates that is - then all bets are off and it will be able to travel through the air and truly be an airborne virus. Gods willing that mutation will also see it become less deadly. There are always trade offs in nature. We just have to wait and see

This is an outrage. Everyone in this country should be angry. Beyond unbelievable. I cannot wrap my mind around the stupidity of this, our leaders cannot possibly be this stupid can they? No, they are not this stupid. No one can be this ignorant. No one. I am sad for my country, pray for our nation. Someone has to stand up the apathy is astounding.

originally posted by: 200Plus
a reply to: Lovelyful

Huge difference between an airborne PARTICLE and an airborne DISEASE.

What airborne means in the medical community and what it means in the lay community is very different as well.

Ebola is transmissible 3-4 feet through particles "in the air" during the infection period.

EDT - until it mutates that is - then all bets are off and it will be able to travel through the air and truly be an airborne virus. Gods willing that mutation will also see it become less deadly. There are always trade offs in nature. We just have to wait and see

Thank you for the correction. Still, this is very scary indeed. Many people may be confused by that definition and think that you have to be in direct contact with body fluids, and that you can't catch it from being around someone who is in your personal space. And that confusion is frightening.

originally posted by: Meee32
a reply to: Daalder

Is it though? Is it really smart? I think it seems pretty short sighted, so lets say all these "smart" nurses leave, awesome, so now there are no nurses or definitely not enough... So then it spreads, people roaming around spreading the disease everywhere... How long till it comes to the "smart" nurses door?

What is the next move exactly?

Wouldn't it be smarter to actually deal with the problem? ie get the training and equipment? There are things the nurses can do!

Go to the local media and tell them
Go to town hall meeting and tell them
Tell everbody you can
Make banners telling the community that you NEED their support

Tell me, who in the community will NOT want you prepared for this? Seems pretty obvious you can get a LOT of support very quickly for something like this.

Just leaving when it hits seems a really really silly move to me.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but a large number of the smart nurse have already quit.

I am not saying the nurses that are still working as floor nurses aren't smart. Many if you ask them, and if they are truthful, will tell you they stay because "At least I have a job." I hear it every day.

Nurses are asked everyday to do the impossible. They work ridiculous hours, with a ridiculous patient load, for ridiculous pay. They are abused by the administration, by the doctors, by the patients and by the patient's families. They have no support, no advocates and are the first one that everyone wants to blame and throw under the bus when something goes wrong. This is has been the status quo for years. If they try to forms unions they are called mercenary, heartless creatures because they ask for enough money to pay their bills and care for their families.

While the corporate heads make billions, have 8 homes around the world and 6 cars, the nurse can't afford to get her one car out the shop, and is 1 paycheck away from being homeless. Now she is a heartless money grubbing witch because she wants to stay alive to be with the people she loves, and a reneger, because she knew the risk going into the job.

I have worked in the health care industry for forty years, and while I can't speak for all healthcare workers, I feel pretty confident that none of them signed up for putting their lives and the lives of their family on the line as part of their contract, and I think it is pretty selfish for anyone to try to force them, or try to make them feel quilty, because you are afraid of dying alone if the nurses aren't there to die with you.

That is just my humble opinion.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I get that, and I am telling them they should group up and threaten to strike, so I am all for them getting their fair cut and to have the appropriate training and equipment... I am saying they NEED to fight to get that... Just quitting is NOT going to help the nurses stay ebola free, in fact quite the oposite no?

And you really think nurses are so dumb they don't that working with sick people could potentially make them sick too? Come now... Of course they know this! Working in a hospital is a risk and always has been!

Also I will note that on occassions they DO make drastic mistakes that cost people their lives and so yes I'm sure some people will be angry about that. I'm sure you would too, no? A family member goes in for treatment and they do uneeded surgery or remove the wrong limb or something (I know nurses don't do this XD But you get my point).

Could be the wrong medicine given to the wrong patient or whatever.

But I agree it is a tough job for sure, but they also knew that too when they CHOSE that career, everyone knows it is tough.

originally posted by: Meee32
a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I get that, and I am telling them they should group up and threaten to strike, so I am all for them getting their fair cut and to have the appropriate training and equipment... I am saying they NEED to fight to get that... Just quitting is NOT going to help the nurses stay ebola free, in fact quite the oposite no?

And you really think nurses are so dumb they don't that working with sick people could potentially make them sick too? Come now... Of course they know this! Working in a hospital is a risk and always has been!

Also I will note that on occassions they DO make drastic mistakes that cost people their lives and so yes I'm sure some people will be angry about that. I'm sure you would too, no? A family member goes in for treatment and they do uneeded surgery or remove the wrong limb or something (I know nurses don't do this XD But you get my point).

Could be the wrong medicine given to the wrong patient or whatever.

But I agree it is a tough job for sure, but they also knew that too when they CHOSE that career, everyone knows it is tough.

You are missing the key element in the equation.

Nurses have never, and mostly likely will never recognize their real power.

If they have allowed themselves to be misused, demeaned, over worked and under paid, while others have made a fortune, off of their blood sweat and tears, they are not very likely to make that grand united front now when they have been brainwashed to belive they are expendable and are a dime a dozen.


Yes. Sounds crazy. I sat in a coporate meeting 8 months ago and was shocked and incensed, when a corporate director told the charge nurses they would go along with the new hospital program or they go take the door, because she get anyone to replace them at $5.00 an hour and nurses are a dime a dozen.

I wasn't a charge nurse, but I took her up on her offer. I left. I was the only one that left.

Nurses are not up to the task you are wanting to hand them, and they shouldn't have to fight for basic life preserving equipment to keep them safe on the job.

This is not the nurses fight or responsibility, but of course, like always blame the nurse and throw her under the bus.

After all, they come a dime a dozen.

I've been to the Hospitals and I cannot safely say, that they are not equipped at all to handle Ebola. I also don't see any Hazmat suits in the entrance. As soon as someone walks in coughing Ebola and touching people, it would be too late to do a lock down, especially when there is public transports like Taxi to take you home right away.

I visited a friend last night at Tulane Medical Center in New Orleans. He had just had major surgery and had been unconsvious/out of it for most of the previous two days and I was giving him an update on the comedy of errors that's been going on. At some point his nurse came in so I took the opportunity to ask her if they had been given any special protocol or policy changes due to Ebola.

She had not gotten a single update, despite Bobby Jindal's reassurances that all Louisiana hospitals had been given special procedures. She hung out with us for about 45 minutes and listened very intently to us educate her about this beast.

If Ebola Zaire goes pandemic I sure hope she was paying attention to her crash course. It will be pass/fail only with no retakes if you fail.

a reply to: lovebeck
Don't blame you...Read an article tonight that there's a plane load of people coming into JFK today...And has been happening at JFK every day for the last month...And that's just JFK...

Obviously the Liberians who are affected and can afford it are flying to the U.S. possibly in hopes of getting better medical treatment...

But Obama says we will not stop the flights...He's trying to kill us...

originally posted by: ItCameFromOuterSpace
a reply to: lovebeck

Just make sure they don't puke or bleed on you.
It can't be that hard.

The Center for Disease Control is now saying that it is likely airborne...That mean without a remedy, we will all get it eventually...

I think people are getting a bit hysterical here. Please read what the CDC has to say on their site.

It says that the 'incubation period' for the ebola virus is 21 days. That means that it can manifest syptoms up to 21 days after someone has been infected. It then says that patients are not "contagious" until they maifest symptoms of the desease and that it is spread by contact with body fluids (much like AIDS).

Hosptials handle AIDS patients daily and know those protocols.

I don't think that dogs can carry the disease, so that scare mongering is unnessary.

However, people who survive the disease can still pass it on (through body fluids) for several weeks and it does concern me that that particular information is not being diseminated. I did hear it early on in this epidemic but have not heard it since the disease appeared in the US. That, in my opinion, is the scary vector - that survivors of the disease can still infect others.

Learn the facts as best you can and you'll probably be alright.

The traditional wisdom about ebola was that it killed so many (percentagewise) and so fast it didn't have time to spread. This version of the disease is only killing 60% - so there will be lots of survivors to carry the disease to others.

Ah -- here it is and it is only in semen that ebola stays active after survival from the disease:

How is Ebola virus spread?

Researchers do not know exactly how Ebola is spread. However, they have strong reason to believe that the first patient becomes infected through contact with an infected animal.

The Ebola virus is then spread from human to human by:

direct contact with the blood and/or secretions of an infected person.

contact with objects, such as needles, that have been contaminated with infected secretions. (this means that you'd have to direct mucus membrane or blood contact with the 'secretions' that contaminte the objects.)


scientsts believe that Ebola virus can live in semen for 6 months after a person is cured.

Not the greatest source but the first I could find:

www.mamashealth.com...

Here's the deal from the CDC:

www.cdc.gov...

When an infection does occur in humans, the virus can be spread in several ways to others. Ebola is spread through direct contact (through broken skin or mucous membranes in, for example, the eyes, nose, or mouth) with

blood or body fluids (including but not limited to urine, saliva, sweat, feces, vomit, breast milk, and semen) of a person who is sick with Ebola

objects (like needles and syringes) that have been contaminated with the virus
infected animals

Ebola is not spread through the air or by water, or in general, by food. However, in Africa, Ebola may be spread as a result of handling bushmeat (wild animals hunted for food) and contact with infected bats. There is no evidence that mosquitos or other insects can transmit Ebola virus. Only mammals (for example, humans, bats, monkeys, and apes) have shown the ability to become infected with and spread Ebola virus.

Nothing about dogs whatsoever....

and about afterwards:

Once someone recovers from Ebola, they can no longer spread the virus. However, Ebola virus has been found in semen for up to 3 months. People who recover from Ebola are advised to abstain from sex or use condoms for 3 months.