US Nurses: We Can't Handle Ebola!

originally posted by: MarkJS

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
a reply to: FlyersFan


It gets worse too..........

pardon the deflection... I'm just excited that someone used the word 'too', and used it correctly.

ok, back to the topic at hand.

LoL thanks , admittedly the more tech comes and the more shorthand is used , I feel like my writing skills and IQ have taken a dive.....

I know my sentence structure and punctuation are horrid.

Thank you for the confidence boost!

a reply to: BobAthome

You just can't trust those pesky computers to be reliable "all" the time and IT will tell you every time, "It is a user error." If they can't duplicate the glitch well, it isn't the software that caused the problem. Even if it is a buggy program, if they choose not to be able to duplicate the problem, then it is not their problem.

Doctors and nurses are no longer permitted to use their knowledge, skills and expertise. That are commanded to follow the instructions that pop up after the data is entered into the computer.

We need to start keeping track of the number of deaths by algorithms.

a reply to: MarkJS

I suppose it would've sufficed just to say a body condom.
To answer your question and prevent thread drift.
So I'm in agreement with the mods,,my bad.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

very well said on all points except for one:

The only bright note, is that the US has no natural carriers of this disease, and that is one bright note.

Although dogs are susceptible to Ebola, the CDC concluded that "infected dogs are asymptomatic", meaning that they do not develop symptoms. During the early phase of their infection, however, they can spread the disease to humans and other animals through licking, biting, urine, and feces. However, the good news is that once the virus is cleared from the dog it is no longer contagious. Dogs do not die from Ebola infections.

Can Dogs Get Infected by the Ebola Virus?

Like the kinds of dogs that eat vomit that has been on a sidewalk for how many days before being power washed?

I just ran into a local ambulance driver (I'm in Canada, btw) and asked him if he had new instructions about ebola. He said yes, that their screening and reporting protocols have been upgraded, but other than that, they already have good infection prevention norms and protocols in place. For instance, a disposable O2 mask is put on every patient who may have been coughing before they get into the ambulance. All equipment is disposable or disinfected after use, etc. He says he is not nervous about it. Communication and good practices, he told me. I fully agree.

The worst outbreak I ever saw was a norovirus outbreak in a 112-bed nursing home where six of the 92 stricken people died and a small handful of residents stayed well. Only four of the staff fell ill and they worked in the kitchen and laundry. The residents had all gone to the dining room where it is believed the source originated. It is a staff and patient-draining experience for sure though.

I feel that those who are freaking out about it should read up on prevention and apply it to everything all the time. We must all exercise a certain amount of caution all the time. It has served me and mine well.

originally posted by: CloudsTasteMetallic

originally posted by: lovebeck

originally posted by: CloudsTasteMetallic
Good thing only MDs take the Hippocratic Oath.

Do nurses have anything similar to the Hippocratic Oath?

What does this even mean? You do realize it's us nurses who keep doctors from killing you, on a very regular basis, right? Doctors are the worst when it comes to hand washing, isolation precautions, etc. there are plenty of articles and peer reviewed bits out there to support this, btw.

Hippocratic Oath:

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:

I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures which are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.

If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

It's a shame to see so many nurses in this thread who have dedicated their life to healing the sick decide that "Well, if Ebola shows up, tough luck everyone else."

Guess it shows who's just in it for the paycheck, though.

Sorry this does not compute. This does not compute.

I am sure if you do a quick Google of CMS, EHR, CBR, DRGs, InterQual, this list is endless, you will quickly come to realize that in America, healthcare is a marketable commodity.

You are absolutely right, it is all about the paycheck and it is not the measly paycheck that the over worked, abused and disrespected nursing staff is taking home that is the problem.

There are plenty of nursing jobs available and if things do get bad there will probably be jobs available were they will be willing to do on the job training, so all of you people who think these nurses are such horrible, mercenary and heartless individuals, will have the opportunity to put them to shame and step up to the plate.

a reply to: lovebeck

An article, probabaly the same, can be found at: www.commondreams.org...

...and I'd like to emphasize two points made in it related to our 'suffering' not 'health' system in the US:

"What our surveys show is a reminder that we do not have a national health care system, but a fragmented collection of private healthcare companies each with their own way of responding,” Castillo said.
[/color]

and

Finally, Castillo said criminalizing the patient in Dallas or elsewhere is “exactly the wrong approach and will do nothing to stop Ebola or any other pandemic.”

This is a prime (and dangerous) example of how our 'for-profit' 'healthcare' system is not about anyone's health but only about corporate (and hence a few individuals) profit.

The system is horribly effectual when it comes to actual patient and public wellbeing and care.

B. Castillo is the spokesperson for the group releasing the survey.

originally posted by: aboutface
I just ran into a local ambulance driver (I'm in Canada, btw) and asked him if he had new instructions about ebola. He said yes, that their screening and reporting protocols have been upgraded, but other than that, they already have good infection prevention norms and protocols in place. For instance, a disposable O2 mask is put on every patient who may have been coughing before they get into the ambulance. All equipment is disposable or disinfected after use, etc. He says he is not nervous about it. Communication and good practices, he told me. I fully agree.

The worst outbreak I ever saw was a norovirus outbreak in a 112-bed nursing home where six of the 92 stricken people died and a small handful of residents stayed well. Only four of the staff fell ill and they worked in the kitchen and laundry. The residents had all gone to the dining room where it is believed the source originated. It is a staff and patient-draining experience for sure though.

I feel that those who are freaking out about it should read up on prevention and apply it to everything all the time. We must all exercise a certain amount of caution all the time. It has served me and mine well.

How does it work if the patient needs to throw up?

others lose the surface of their tongues after waves of black, blood-tainted vomit

link- Yahoo News

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical


I would expect that those in charge of seeing that our country is prepared to dea with one of the most deadly pathogens known to man would ensure that the people working our hoapitals have the proper training and equipment to deal with said pathogen.

That seems not to be the case however.

And that is precisely because the US 'health' (or I prefer 'suffering') system is designed for profit not healthcare. Education and preparedness require expendature of capital without direct 'return on investment'.

Do you seriously think a private, for profit, company cares about people's safety (including 99.9% of their employees) and health when it may degrade their profit margin?????

a reply to: MarkJS

The mask is not cemented on. It can easily be lifted, put aside or removed while a receptacle is provided. It's not unusual.

If I contract ebola I'm done and will not subject anyone
to my fate. Altho I couldn't take my own life I have enough
friends who would be up for the task. And I think the
proper legalities might need to be arranged for mercy
killings if ebola begins to get out of hand.. This
could help emensely to stop the spread.

a reply to: aboutface

Absolutely correct. Our ambulance agency has similar protocols in place. Not sure if the nausea meds we carry would work on ebola induced vomiting but PPE is incredibly important here..especially being ambulance workers being confined in a small space with these patients

a reply to: texasgirl

The problem isn't that nurses don't want to care for the sick, medical facilities aren't giving them the tools/confidence or support that will allow them to do it safely/responsibly.

What you fail to consider is without proper training/equipment medical workers/families aren't the only ones at risk, nurses could become "typhoid Marys" spreading it from patient to patient or worse yet other medical staff.

Nurses who feel this way are being realistic. Our government has spoken, they're allowing Ebola in. They want to believe we can handle it and their message to medical staff is make it so. Some hospitals simply aren't making Ebola a priority and staff sees this.

I was in food service for years. I began seeing horrible health violations. I requested better training/testing, I complained and threatened, got nowhere. Many workers agreed/backed me up but the owners did not. Training/testing is time consuming/costly and interferes with daily operations. It's cheaper to wing it, hope for the best, let the chips fall where they may.

No matter how dedicated we are to our training/procedure one clueless worker/lack of supplies etc. ruins everything. Fighting was futile, I quit and several followed. In theory we were the kind of workers who should be in food service but mishandling/cost cutting chased us away.

It's a shame the medical community has gone the same route but I've seen it in my other job providing non-emergency medical transport. I've frequented many medical facilities throughout the state and I've seen the same mentality.

Don't come down hard on nurses for their concerns because they're the ones we should be listening to. I'm afraid they're being ignored because what they want/need will break budgets.

We can't blame workers when money handlers wiggle around the rules because compliance is too expensive. Let the money people deal with it. Let them get puked on without adequate supplies and I bet budgets would be approved overnight, supplies would rain down. If nurses just suck it up/do it regardless no one will grow a brain. When those in charge have it shoved down their throats maybe they'll finally act responsibly/do the right thing.

If your focused on nurses running away in fear, I'm afraid you as well as our government has completely missed the much bigger picture. We've been slacking off for years because of the rising cost of everything. No room for slackers where Ebola is concerned, cost cutting has no place in that fight. This is not business as usual.

The money handlers aren't on the front lines they have the luxury of making bad decisions based on cost/profits, no deadly repercussions for them while the situation as it stands now is most serious/dire for nurses, medical staff.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical
But it means that once it has cleared, it is clear, and will raise up again, unless it comes in again by another person, or animal. In Africa, it keeps coming back, as the animal that is the host, lives and ultimately it spreads that way.

a reply to: lovebeck


I have a friend who is an emergency room doctor. Three weeks ago I asked him if the hospital he works at instructed the staff on how to handle Ebola patients. He said all they told them to do was ask questions regarding whether they had been to West Africa or not, and whether they had direct contact with someone from West Africa. The doctors and staff at the hospital are supposed to take the patient's word as the truth. They will only test for Ebola if the patient answers "yes" to those questions.

As far as special protective gear is concerned, he told me that no special gear is being issued to hospital workers and the workers have not been trained at all regarding the special handling and treatment of Ebola patients.

I told him that if Ebola comes to the US I won't be able to hang out with him anymore because he's a doctor on the front line of the battle and since there is a 21 day incubation period for Ebola I didn't want to risk getting the disease from him, even if he didn't show symptoms.

I think I may lose a dear friend because of this outbreak, but I would rather stay alive and not die a horrible excruciating death than be polite.

It's going to be a very interesting and dark winter I fear.

a reply to: Morningglory


I'm not coming down hard on nurses, okay? And I am looking at a bigger picture: The more nurses who quit, the less help there is to care for the Ebola patients and the worse it spreads.

I feel bad that these are conditions nurses are working in and now that Ebola has shown up on our doorstep I am alarmed that so many are saying they'll quit. NO, I don't want them to go home and infect others. And YES, they should have protective gear. If the realistic picture is that this is how it is then why not go pubic with national news channels like CNN and FOX to break it out in the open? As I said earlier, the Ebola patient's girlfriend called CNN and complained that no one has picked up the soiled bed linens. What happened next? The officials scrambled around to address the problem.

If officials are lying about how hospitals are ready for Ebola then someone, a medical worker, needs to come forward and address how it really is. Do it now, too, while we still have only one case.

I just don't think quitting the profession helps anyone. The nurse who quits no longer has an income and that's not good for her, either.

originally posted by: texasgirl

originally posted by: jadedANDcynical
a reply to: texasgirl

What if it was YOU who contracted Ebola or YOUR KID who got it? Wouldn't you expect to get help?

I would expect that those in charge of seeing that our country is prepared to dea with one of the most deadly pathogens known to man would ensure that the people working our hoapitals have the proper training and equipment to deal with said pathogen.

That seems not to be the case however.

Would you expect a fireman to show up to a fully involved house fire in a Volkswagen beetle to fight the fire with a garden hose?

No, I don't expect that but I bet he'd still show up and do everything possible to stop the fire. It's what he does.

I bet he wouldn't run inside a blazing building with a pitcher of water to fight it, and no fire-proof suit to protect him. That is basically what they are (thus far) expecting medical professionals to do at hospitals nationwide. Those protective suits were invented for this very reason. Everyone knows they exist, and why. Firemen aren't expected to put their lives to additional risk of going without their suits. Why in the world should a nurse? You realize it spreads even worse when medical professionals aren't protected, don't you? YOU and YOUR FAMILY are more at risk of an outbreak if they don't have proper equipment. Let's all bark up the right tree... the alphabet agency tree!

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

that means that the most sophisticated test for Hemoragic Fevers, popped up and said"PASS". sEND HOME,,BEEP.

, pg. 3245 of Ebola it will kill u dead. HAS THAT INFO BEEN ASSIMULATED into the product update platform data base yet?

Kinda like anti-virus for the Computer,,only for Hemoragic Feaver,,folder B.?

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask
Just to the one point...stopping flights coming in from Africa would accomplish nothing really. Not at this juncture. Someone coming from Africa could easily take a hop over to another country and come in from anywhere else. If that makes sense.

So you would have had to stop flights coming in from anywhere and this would have had to have been a while back (say January), when stopping flights going out of Africa may have worked. But the horse has left the barn, and now we would have to stop flights going out from anywhere the virus is present.

Hmmm I totally understand why you would quit under these circumstances, but as another member pointed out, who is going to do it? And say everyone leaves like you, are you not then at MORE risk of catching it and letting it spread?

I think you guys should demand the proper training and equipment and threaten to strike! Like right now! Don't just wait for ebola to come then all leave. I really don't see that as a good solution to this problem.

I mean you knew the risks when you became a nurse no? Like a copper saying they would leave if there were a serial killer on the loose. But that is the job? XD