Still Think the World is Waking up to the Conspiracy?

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596
a reply to: Another_Nut

I see...you got confused. See, I posted the picture of the Madrid Windsor to show that structural steel does fail from fire. I should have posted pictures of WTC1, WTC2, and WTC7 as examples of complete collapses due to fire/damage.

O and you could have used wtc 1 2 & 3

But the u couldn't have said

fire alone

Now could you?

Because fire alone have never collapsed a steel building

Never

Even u had to add in that little "fire/damage" bit at the end of yiur post

Backstepping much?

The rhetoric by the conspiracy side never changes.
They would rather believe Youtube videos instead of walking into their own local fire house.

originally posted by: Another_Nut
a reply to: cardinalfan0596

for a collapsed building it sure seems to be standing

now who is refusing to accept reality?

The Windsor tower was not the same construction as the Twin Towers

he Windsor Tower Fire, Madrid

Overview
Location: Madrid, Spain
Fire Event: 12 February 2005
Fire started at the 21st Floor, spreading to all floors above the 2nd Floor. Fire duration: 18 ~ 20 hours
Fire Damage: Extensive slab collapse above the 17th Floor. The building was totally destroyed by the fire.
Construction Type: Reinforced concrete core with waffle slabs supported by internal RC columns and steel beams, with perimeter steel columns which were unprotected above the 17th Floor level at the time of the fire.
Fire Resistance: Passive fire protection. No sprinklers.
Building Type: 106 m (32 storeys). Commercial.

The Damage

The Windsor Tower was completely gutted by the fire on 12 February 2005. A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed (see Figure 1). It was believed that the massive transfer structure at the 17th Floor level resisted further collapse of the building.

The whole building was beyond repair and had to be demolished.

The steelwork DID fail only due to fire and NO aircraft impact!!!

The steel failed the REINFORCED CONCRETE didn't!!!

IT WOULD HELP IF YOU GUYS CHECKED FACTS INSTEAD TRUSTING CONSPIRACY SITES FOR YOUR INFO!

a reply to: wmd_2008

collapse

That is the operative word here

originally posted by: Another_Nut
a reply to: wmd_2008

collapse

That is the operative word here

May be you just missed this from above!
the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed

a reply to: wmd_2008

Maybe u just missed the fact we are talking about buildings collapsing

Read my posts above

a reply to: Another_Nut

No, no one has missed that. It is YOU that continues to miss reality. Three heavily damaged and burning buildings collapsed that day.

originally posted by: cardinalfan0596
a reply to: Another_Nut

No, no one has missed that. It is YOU that continues to miss reality. Three heavily damaged and burning buildings collapsed that day.

what happened to all that

fire alone

stuff you have been touting for the last two pages?

finally realize your mistake?

now u want to add

heavily damaged and burning buildings

which is it?

this is another example of osers who cant get their story straight. backpeddling. and ignoring the reality

i will recap this conversation if you want .

a reply to: Another_Nut

As seems to be typical to the truther community you fail to completely read posts.

But, to help you out....my post to Tedgoat...after you said you were done with this thread.......


"Despite the other examples of structural steel failing due to fire alone....you cling to your ideas about a heavily damaged and fiercely burning building. Interesting." (you see the part about "heavily damaged and fiercely burning" you seem to have missed it the first time around)

You posted this in response...

"structural steel failing due to fire :yes
buildings collapsing due to structural steel failing due to fire :never"

To which I posted the photo of the Madrid Windsor, giving you an example of a building in which structural steel failed...and collapsed...due to fire alone. No extra damage needed. Now, you seemed to get wrapped around the axle that the Windsor did not completely collapse...and it was pointed out to you that the Windsor had a massive concrete transfer slab that the engineers say prevented the entire building from coming down. And, it was pointed out that WTC 1, 2, and 7, were burning fiercely, with massive damage and THEY did not have such a transfer slab.

How come everyone else understands this and you fail to?

a reply to: cardinalfan0596

How come everyone else understands this and you fail to?

It does look like the problem we have with the world waking up to the conspiracy is not in the laws of physics, but with our trust and belief in our government, systems and culture. This was the part that hurt me the most, that our government would lie and kill its own citizens so it could go off to war to kill a few million more. Our media and laws are corrupt, we are now the baddies.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: cardinalfan0596

How come everyone else understands this and you fail to?

It does look like the problem we have with the world waking up to the conspiracy is not in the laws of physics, but with our trust and belief in our government, systems and culture. This was the part that hurt me the most, that our government would lie and kill its own citizens so it could go off to war to kill a few million more. Our media and laws are corrupt, we are now the baddies.

I grew up believing America was 'The Good Guys' and felt the same sadness you describe to learn otherwise.
This interview with former US Attorney General, Ramsay Clark, restored my faith in the goodness of at least some.

www.youtube.com...

Why didn't people heed this great American Hero?

originally posted by: Another_Nut
a reply to: wmd_2008

Maybe u just missed the fact we are talking about buildings collapsing

Read my posts above

Don't take some random internet poster's word for it then.

Get several opinions.

Fire fighters.

University professors in structural engineering

Actual structural engineers.

Fire protection engineers.

Tell us what they say.

originally posted by: Another_Nut
a reply to: wmd_2008

Maybe u just missed the fact we are talking about buildings collapsing

Read my posts above

Maybe YOU missed the FACT that you are talking about STEEL framed buildings Windsor Tower was a REINFORCED CONCRETE structure with steel perimeter framework so read this till it sinks in!!!

Construction Type: Reinforced concrete core with waffle slabs supported by internal RC columns and steel beams, with perimeter steel columns which were unprotected above the 17th Floor level at the time of the fire.

A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed

IMPORTANT parts in bold so YOU don't miss them!

The steel frame buckled and collapsed due to the FIRE only!!!

Is that now simple enough to sink in!

originally posted by: wmd_2008
IMPORTANT parts in bold so YOU don't miss them!

The steel frame buckled and collapsed due to the FIRE only!!!

Is that now simple enough to sink in!

Truthers think all buildings are built the same, so should collapse the same..

a reply to: kwakakev

Our media and laws are corrupt, we are now the baddies.

So the media is corrupt?
They make public reports about events that can be cross checked by other reporters and individuals.
While the internet stories are by unknown individuals who have no responsibility to anyone.

I'll believe the media, thank you.

a reply to: Psynic

Why didn't people heed this great American Hero?

There have been some, but not enough.


a reply to: samkent

I'll believe the media, thank you.

I respect your self determination and knowledge on the issue. Those where the days...

a reply to: samkent

Spoken like a true subject--believe what you're told, no questions asked.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: samkent

Spoken like a true subject--believe what you're told, no questions asked.

Actually, this applies to truthers, not us skeptics.

CT'ers start with a world view - that everything and everyone in power is corrupt and can never be trusted and this is the reason for my abject failure in life below my expectations. Then they get interested in a conspiracy theory that they believe that helps to explain away their own angst, if true. At this point, for a CT'er, it becomes a religion. A belief based on nothing more than they WANT to believe whatever their flavor of drivel happens to be cuz it makes them feel better about themselves. At this point, the CT'er ( in this case, truthers ) believe anything and everything about 9/11.

a reply to: Tedgoat
Too bad you knowledge of physics is limited.
Please explain why the government would fake the photos in the link below.

Here