Nurse Fired for Refusing Flu Shot Sues Hospital, Federal and State Governments for $100,000,000

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Hepatitis B vaccination of male neonates and autism diagnosis, NHIS 1997-2002.

Gallagher CM1, Goodman MS.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...,+NHIS+1997-2002


Autoimmunity. 2005 May;38(3):235-45.

Infection, vaccines and other environmental triggers of autoimmunity.

Molina V1, Shoenfeld Y.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

J Toxicol Environ Health A. 2011;74(14):903-16. doi: 10.1080/15287394.2011.573736.

A positive association found between autism prevalence and childhood vaccination uptake across the U.S. population.


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

I obviously need to point out the mistakes in your "research" again.
You know, just to show you AGAIN why they do not show what you believe they do.
Your first one is debunked very easily (remember, it's all in the details...)
"The central claim of the paper is that "Boys vaccinated as neonates had threefold greater odds for autism diagnosis compared to boys never vaccinated or vaccinated after the first month of life."


The autism group had 33 kids total. Of these, 9 of 31 (29%) were given the HepB vaccine. Compare this to 1,258 of 7,455 (17%) of the non-autism group who were given the HepB.

9 out of 31.

Are the red flags up yet? They should be.

Take for example kids aged 17 in the 1997 survey. When were they born? That’s right, 1980.

When was the Hepatitis B vaccine introduced? 1991. According to Mr. Kirby himself, the HepB vaccine didn’t get fully implemented until about 1996.

A lot of the kids were born before the “epidemic” of autism. No one disputes that the number of people identified with autism has gone up significantly in the last 30 years.

So, pretty much anything that changed in that time would “correlate” with autism.

Prometheus,

I just did a couple of quick statistics on the data in this poster.

The first thing that pops up is that the prevalence of autism in this group is 1 in 238 (in the groups with HBV data, the prevalence was 1 in 241). Seems a bit low.

Secondly, there is no statistically significant difference between the two groups (HBV/no HBV) in their autism prevalence (p = 0.07).

The poster gives no details about how the data was “controlled for confounders”, so it is unclear how they might have “massaged” the data into significance. No matter – with no statistically significant difference between the groups, the odds ratio is meaningless.

the authors found after their regression that the odds ratio for autism for non-Hispanic whites was 0.385.

This is polar opposite to the administrative data (which usually shows very high “odds” for whites) and against what actual prevalence studies show (no variation by race/ethnicity).

Something is very odd with that study.
In January 2011, the paper again came up for discussion in the comments at Science-Based Medicine. One of the regular commenters wrote:

The key, of course, is that the premise of the article rests on the danger of thimerosal, so there are immediate problems with the mechanism by which the authors suppose the hep B vaccine is linked to autism — and predictably, in the discussion section, the authors cite the ludicrous work of the Geiers as supporting evidence for their findings. The data are drawn from the NHIH — so it’s interview data with no independent confirmation of autism diagnoses, and there appears to be a lot of relevant information missing. For example, although they found about 193 cases of autism in the sample they used, only ~45 of those actually had usable vaccination records.

So far, the study looks more than weak.

I looked for papers published after 2010 that might replicate the results; there are none. However, there is a 2011 Polish paper that failed to find an association between thimerosal exposure from vaccines and autism.

Does this paper "demonstrate that vaccines can cause autism"? No. Not even the Hep B vaccine."

The abstract, methodology, results and stats and therefore the conclusion are all wrong.
Just one of those being off would void the study but here there's a full house.
So do you STILL believe that one?


Your second one is an abstract, it's not a study nor a research article. Essentially it's an hypothesis.
Here's a real study into that hypothesis.
image.thelancet.com...
I know you have difficulty understanding studies so here's the concluding remarks of it.
"Concluding remarks
A clear distinction should be made between autoimmunity
and autoimmune disease. Autoimmunity is a feature of the
normal healthy immune system. There is little doubt that
laboratory measurable signs of autoimmunity can associate
with infection and might occasionally appear after
vaccination. It is comforting to appreciate that the immune
system has evolved sufficient fail-safe mechanisms to
ensure that these signs rarely develop into clinical disease."

Your third one was written by an ECONOMIST. Yes, you read that right. However, unlike the study I posted earlier she wasn't assisted by an infectious diseases expert as if she was, the study wouldn't have made it out of the door.
"DeLong G. The author is not a medical researcher or an autism expert. She earned her PhD in Finance and International Business, and currently is an Associate Professor of Economics and Finance at the Zicklin School of Business, Baruch College, City University of New York."
Oh, so not even a medical economist then?
Anyway, her study is flawed on so many levels.
Her premise assumes that science shows there is a connection with vaccines and autism when science shows the opposite.
Not a good basis for a study and I could dismiss it just with that but I'll carry on for you.
Then she uses data from IDEA to try to support her false premise. Not a good idea (did you see what I did there?).
pediatrics.aappublications.org...
And for an economist her understanding of numbers seems very weak indeed and the study finally shoots itself in the foot.
She states that the "vaccination rate" (her bizarre definition of it anyway) rises up dramatically in the first couple of years but the autism rates don't. But according to her they should.
But they didn't.
Strange eh?

Nope, not strange at all.
Fraudulent is the word.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Long-term persistence of vaccine-derived aluminum hydroxide is associated with chronic cognitive dysfunction
Maryline Couettea, c, Marie-Françoise Boissea, c, Patrick Maisona, d, 2, Pierre Brugierese, Pierre Cesaroa, c,
Xavier Chevalierf, Romain K. Gherardib, g, h, Anne-Catherine Bachoud-Levia, c, 1, François-Jérôme Authierb, g, h, 1,


www.sciencedirect.com...

The research abstract I excerpt below is a follow up on the above research.


Long-term follow-up of cognitive dysfunction in patients with aluminum hydroxide-induced macrophagic myofasciitis (MMF) ☆
Elodie Passeria, b, Chiara Villac, Maryline Couetteb, d, Emmanuel Ittie, Pierre Brugieresf, Pierre Cesarob, e, Romain K. Gherardia, g, h, Anne-Catherine Bachoud-Levib, d, François-Jérôme Authiera, g, h


DOI: 10.1016/j.jinorgbio.2011.08.006



www.sciencedirect.com...

Immunol Res. 2013 Jul;56(2-3):304-16. doi: 10.1007/s12026-013-8403-1.

Aluminum in the central nervous system (CNS): toxicity in humans and animals, vaccine adjuvants, and autoimmunity.

Shaw CA1, Tomljenovic L.


www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Another study on mercury toxicity.

A Case-Control Study of Mercury Burden in Children with Autistic Spectrum Disorders

J Toxicol Environ Health A. 2007 May 15;70(10):837-51.

A case series of children with apparent mercury toxic encephalopathies manifesting with clinical symptoms of regressive autistic disorders.

Geier DA1, Geier MR.

Author information


Abstract

Impairments in social relatedness and communication, repetitive behaviors, and stereotypic abnormal movement patterns characterize autism spectrum disorders (ASDs). It is clear that while genetic factors are important to the pathogenesis of ASDs, mercury exposure can induce immune, sensory, neurological, motor, and behavioral dysfunctions similar to traits defining or associated with ASDs. The Institutional Review Board of the Institute for Chronic Illnesses (Office for Human Research Protections, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, IRB number IRB00005375) approved the present study. A case series of nine patients who presented to the Genetic Centers of America for a genetic/developmental evaluation are discussed. Eight of nine patients (one patient was found to have an ASD due to Rett's syndrome) (a) had regressive ASDs; (b) had elevated levels of androgens; (c) excreted significant amounts of mercury post chelation challenge; (d) had biochemical evidence of decreased function in their glutathione pathways; (e) had no known significant mercury exposure except from Thimerosal-containing vaccines/Rho(D)-immune globulin preparations; and (f) had alternate causes for their regressive ASDs ruled out. There was a significant dose-response relationship between the severity of the regressive ASDs observed and the total mercury dose children received from Thimerosal-containing vaccines/Rho (D)-immune globulin preparations. Based upon differential diagnoses, 8 of 9 patients examined were exposed to significant mercury from Thimerosal-containing biologic/vaccine preparations during their fetal/infant developmental periods, and subsequently, between 12 and 24 mo of age, these previously normally developing children suffered mercury toxic encephalopathies that manifested with clinical symptoms consistent with regressive ASDs. Evidence for mercury intoxication should be considered in the differential diagnosis as contributing to some regressive ASDs.
...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

I could keep posting study after study, but to some people for whatever reason it won't matter how many of these studies are shown. These people will just continue to dismiss all this evidence.

Here's the response to the first two about MMF.
www.who.int...
Basically what that says is since there were no control groups it's impossible to rule a specific association.
It's just correlation.

The third from Shaw cites ASIA syndrome.
ASIA syndrome is a fabricated syndrome invented by the notable anti-vaxxer Schoenfeld and is in fact not a syndrome but an artefact found in analysis. And an artefact only found by one group of researchers, Schoenfeld's...
Disingenuous much?

And then you post a paper from the Geiers...
A pair who will do anything to prove a link to autism and mercury because they run a business lying to parents that they can CURE their children's autism by removing the non-existent mercury from them.
They use Lupron.
Lupron is a chemical used for chemical castration.
There is no scientific evidence that it chelates mercury nor that it cures autism.
A little piece showing just how honest and ethical the Geiers are
leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk...


Will you take any notice of these rebuttals?
No, I don't think you will.

You WANT to believe that vaccines are harmful and will post anything to try to confirm that belief.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: babybunnies
It's not a Constitutional right to refuse a flu shot. It's part of their employment contract, that she voluntarily signed, of her own accord, without pressure.

...

It is if you are being forced to inject a vaccine that has substances which several research studies have found can cause autism and other neurological disorders on children and even on some adults. The hospital should have offered her a vaccine which did not contain aluminum adjuvants, or ethyl mercury.

Then again, how can we be sure that even vaccines which supposedly are "mercury free" or aluminum free through the claimed "purification process" that manufacturers state they have done when the CDC and the FDA are not making sure these purification processes work as intended? In fact neither the CDC or FDA know for certain that these purification processes have been done since they make no tests to prove that it has been done.

Remember that there have been many vaccines which were approved by the FDA and the CDC, yet they were contaminated with other viruses and bacteria and have been given to millions of people and children. This has happened despite the claim that the FDA tests all batches of vaccines before they are approved and distributed.

There is also the fact that some vaccine manufacturers, either by error or done on purpose to save money have mislabeled some vaccines. There have been some cases in which even some scientists working for the FDA or the CDC have come forward as whistleblowers telling us that the FDA and the CDC have on purpose hidden facts about vaccines which show many of them not to be safe. These whistleblowers are biochemists who have worked on vaccine research for the CDC and FDA and they are not just your typical office employee.

Going back to the thread topic, the nurse could give no reasonable medical reason why she refused the mandatory vaccination and by doing so she violated her terms & conditions.
Violating terms & conditions in ANY job usually results in dismissal.


Irrespective of your diatribe you've been unable to substantiate your claim that vaccines cause what you say.

One minute it's mercury causing problems then it's aluminium (not forgetting the bacteria and viruses) yet ALL of the so-called evidence you posted in support to demonstrate and prove this harm shows absolutely nothing.
All it shows is how dishonest the anti-vax brigade is for citing them.
And you've done an excellent job of confirming this to anyone who might have been on the fence about vaccines.
Well done

originally posted by: Pardon?

Here's the response to the first two about MMF.
www.who.int...
Basically what that says is since there were no control groups it's impossible to rule a specific association.
It's just correlation.

First of all, note the above. This is how you "properly" quote someone and then post your response outside the quote. The way you quote someone in your threads is very confusing. Not to mention that you also leave out links to where much of your info comes from.

Second, you actually think people are stupid. You post a link to a WHO document which mentions a study from 2002 in response to a study from 2011?... So, you want to claim the earlier statement from the WHO link you gave about a study from 2002 refutes studies done AFTER 2002, including the one I posted from 2011?...

You would try anything and everything to dismiss this won't you?... From LYING by claiming "vaccines don't contain ethylmercury/mercury anymore", to twisting what people actually say and posting "opinions" from blogs, to using nothing but insults to try to dismiss what you actually can't refute using a rational argument...

originally posted by: Pardon?

The third from Shaw cites ASIA syndrome.
ASIA syndrome is a fabricated syndrome invented by the notable anti-vaxxer Schoenfeld and is in fact not a syndrome but an artefact found in analysis. And an artefact only found by one group of researchers, Schoenfeld's...
Disingenuous much?

Yeah...talk about "disingenuous"... Dismissing what a physician and autoimmunity researcher has to say about adjuvants in vaccines just by trying to insult him and dismiss whatever he, alongside many other doctors, and specialists have to say which contradict "Pardon's" claims.... Ironic that you mention this to say the least...

Let's continue...

originally posted by: Pardon?

And then you post a paper from the Geiers...
A pair who will do anything to prove a link to autism and mercury because they run a business lying to parents that they can CURE their children's autism by removing the non-existent mercury from them.
They use Lupron.
Lupron is a chemical used for chemical castration.
There is no scientific evidence that it chelates mercury nor that it cures autism.
A little piece showing just how honest and ethical the Geiers are
leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk...

Wow... First, to make it clear I don't endorse using Lupron in children to chelate because it has a lot of negative side effects, and castration isn't one of them... But, to the point, you are being completely dishonest on why leuprolide acetate/Lupron is used for, and the different effects it may have depending on what doses and with what frequency it is used...

Let's actually read what real medical science has to say about Lupron/leuprolide acetate shall we?...

Expert Opin Investig Drugs. 2007 Nov;16(11):1851-63.

Leuprolide acetate: a drug of diverse clinical applications.

Wilson AC1, Meethal SV, Bowen RL, Atwood CS.


Author information


Abstract

Leuprolide acetate is a synthetic nonapeptide that is a potent gonadotropin-releasing hormone receptor (GnRHR) agonist used for diverse clinical applications, including the treatment of prostate cancer, endometriosis, uterine fibroids, central precocious puberty and in vitro fertilization techniques. As its basic mechanism of action, leuprolide acetate suppresses gonadotrope secretion of luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone that subsequently suppresses gonadal sex steroid production. In addition, leuprolide acetate is presently being tested for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease, polycystic ovary syndrome, functional bowel disease, short stature, premenstrual syndrome and even as an alternative for contraception. Mounting evidence suggests that GnRH agonist suppression of serum gonadotropins may also be important in many of the clinical applications described above. Moreover, the presence of GnRHR in a multitude of non-reproductive tissues including the recent discovery of GnRHR expression in the hippocampi and cortex of the human brain indicates that GnRH analogs such as leuprolide acetate may also act directly via tissue GnRHRs to modulate (brain) function. Thus, the molecular mechanisms underlying the therapeutic effect of GnRH analogs in the treatment of these diseases may be more complex than originally thought. These observations also suggest that the potential uses of GnRH analogs in the modulation of GnRH signaling and treatment of disease has yet to be fully realized.
...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

In order to be "castrated chemically" by a drug such as leuprolide acetate you need that person to continuously use the drug. If use of the drug is discontinued, and depending on what frequency and how long it was used, "chemical castration" is generally reversible... But of course you can't state any of that instead you make a bold statement that "Lupron causes chemical castration" relying on the fact that most people won't even bother to look at what this drug is used for and what can, or can't do.

Lupron isn't used to mainly "chemically castrate people"... Most of it's used is not to "chemically castrate" but it is used to treat the symptoms of certain types of cancer by slowing down the production of hormones.

BTW, Lupron is also used to treat children with central precocious puberty among other uses.

...
LUPRON DEPOT‑PED® (leuprolide acetate for depot suspension) 7.5 mg, 11.25 mg and 15 mg for 1-month and 11.25 mg and 30 mg for 3-month administration are prescribed for the treatment of children with central precocious puberty (CPP).

Doctors may diagnose children with CPP when signs of sexual maturity begin to develop in girls under the age of 8 or boys under the age of 9. Your doctor should perform tests to rule out possible causes of early puberty that would require different treatment (e.g., tumors).
...

www.lupron.com...

Of course, instead of actually informing people of what this drug is used for you resort to exaggerating what it does by implying that "leurolide acetate/Lupron castrates chemically"... But of course someone like you would "believe" the above more so when you have even tried to imply that it doesn't matter at what doses children or adults get aluminum, or mercury into their bodies. You seem to 'believe" that "the body will excrete it all "miracously" no matter what dose of mercury or aluminum is introduced into a person's body...

originally posted by: Pardon?

Will you take any notice of these rebuttals?
No, I don't think you will.

You WANT to believe that vaccines are harmful and will post anything to try to confirm that belief.

Based on lies, exaggerations, and the comments made by anonymous people in blogs?... No... I rather look at all the information and form an opinion based on facts, not based on lies, exaggerations and insults...

a reply to: Pardon?

First of all, and like I have already mentioned, you need to learn to post links to all the excerpts you give, and properly quote the sources you are giving from external links. As in using within quotes [ ex ] when you start to quote from an external link, and [ /ex ] when you finish quoting. It's hard to properly discern when you are excerpting quotes from an external link or when you are making a comment in response to what another member has written. Not to mention that you keep giving "opinions" from blogs as evidence...

As to the claims by this "Prometheus" person you are quoting, there have been studies and even a whistleblower, among others, of a vaccine manufacturer who would "disagree", at least when he was being recorded and didn't know it, with your claims and those of "Prometheus" about no evidence that the prevalence of autism is higher in some races than in others.

As to the research on HBV and the incidence of autism in neonatal children. First, even in the paper the researchers specified the differences in the age among the children in the study who were vaccinated (before 1999) and the non-vaccinated group.

The researchers were trying to find if there was a similar link of autism in other age groups of vaccinated children, because in case you didn't know among the groups which are recommended that should be vaccinated for HBV, it includes children/young adults who haven't received the vaccine before age of 19.

Of course, any sane person would also know that aluminum and other compounds/substances such as ethylmercury would affect neonatal, and generally young children more than it would affect older patients, but I am guessing "Prometheus" and "Pardon" didn't take this into account either.

BTW, do notice that I specifically mentioned "among other groups" that are recommended to be vaccinated for HBV. I state this because I know damn well you will try to twist anything I type around in your attempts to dismiss what I have to say or post as evidence here.

Anyways, here is more evidence of the "non-existant link claimed by Pardon et al" of aluminum adjuvants and ethylmercury with neurological disorders and other health problems...

DNA released from dying host cells mediates aluminum adjuvant activity
Thomas Marichal,
Keiichi Ohata,
Denis Bedoret,
Claire Mesnil,
Catherine Sabatel,
Kouji Kobiyama,
Pierre Lekeux,
Cevayir Coban,
Shizuo Akira,
Ken J Ishii,
Fabrice Bureau
& Christophe J Desmet
Affiliations
Contributions
Corresponding authors
Nature Medicine 17, 996–1002 (2011) doi:10.1038/nm.2403 Received 11 February 2011 Accepted 19 May 2011 Published online 17 July 2011

Abstract


Abstract•
References•
Author information•
Supplementary information

Aluminum-based adjuvants (aluminum salts or alum) are widely used in human vaccination, although their mechanisms of action are poorly understood. Here we report that, in mice, alum causes cell death and the subsequent release of host cell DNA, which acts as a potent endogenous immunostimulatory signal mediating alum adjuvant activity. Furthermore, we propose that host DNA signaling differentially regulates IgE and IgG1 production after alum-adjuvanted immunization. We suggest that, on the one hand, host DNA induces primary B cell responses, including IgG1 production, through interferon response factor 3 (Irf3)-independent mechanisms. On the other hand, we suggest that host DNA also stimulates 'canonical' T helper type 2 (TH2) responses, associated with IgE isotype switching and peripheral effector responses, through Irf3-dependent mechanisms. The finding that host DNA released from dying cells acts as a damage-associated molecular pattern that mediates alum adjuvant activity may increase our understanding of the mechanisms of action of current vaccines and help in the design of new adjuvants.
...

www.nature.com...


BTW, to specify as to what the above paper is referring to when they mention that aluminum adjuvants induce IgG1 and IgE production.

IgG1 (most abundant type of Immunoglobulin G)

IgG antibody subtype is the most abundant serum immunoglobulins of the immune system. It is secreted by B cells and is found in blood and extracellular fluids and provides protection from infections caused by bacteria, fungi and viruses.
...

www.sigmaaldrich.com...

IgE (Immunoglobulin E)

IgE not only provides protective immunity against helminth parasites but can also mediate the type I hypersensitivity reactions that contribute to the pathogenesis of allergic diseases such as asthma, allergic rhinitis and atopic dermatitis.
...

www.nature.com...

A role for the body burden of aluminium in vaccine-associated macrophagic myofasciitis and chronic fatigue syndrome

A role for the body burden of aluminium in vaccine-associated macrophagic myofasciitis and chronic fatigue syndrome

Christopher Exley, Louise Swarbrick, Rhomain K. Gherardi, Francois-Jérôme Authier


Received: August 28, 2008; Accepted: September 4, 2008; Published Online: November 12, 2008

DOI: dx.doi.org...

Summary

Macrophagic myofasciitis and chronic fatigue syndrome are severely disabling conditions which may be caused by adverse reactions to aluminium-containing adjuvants in vaccines. While a little is known of disease aetiology both conditions are characterised by an aberrant immune response, have a number of prominent symptoms in common and are coincident in many individuals. Herein, we have described a case of vaccine-associated chronic fatigue syndrome and macrophagic myofasciitis in an individual demonstrating aluminium overload. This is the first report linking the latter with either of these two conditions and the possibility is considered that the coincident aluminium overload contributed significantly to the severity of these conditions in this individual. This case has highlighted potential dangers associated with aluminium-containing adjuvants and we have elucidated a possible mechanism whereby vaccination involving aluminium-containing adjuvants could trigger the cascade of immunological events which are associated with autoimmune conditions including chronic fatigue syndrome and macrophagic myofasciitis.
...

www.medical-hypotheses.com...(08)00493-3/abstract

BTW, has anyone noticed how "certain people" will resort to label those who disagree with them on issues such as this one as "anti-vaxers" etc, etc. They do this despite the fact that I never said that "all vaccines should be banned"... I merely have stated and posted evidence that indicates that vaccines which have certain compounds such as "ethylmercury, and aluminum" are not as safe as "some people claim they are... Notice how they do this even when there is evidence that such disagreement with them has merit...

As for whether or not the nurse had a right to refuse the flu vaccine... She was pregnant, and even had a doctor's exemption to the vaccine... She, alongside many other nurses as well as doctors, did her research and made an informed decision. However, as we can see there are people who despite whatever evidence is presented will only continue trying to claim that "only they" are capable of knowing what doctor or researcher is able to make an informed decision on this topic...

Despite the plethora of evidence which shows the compounds such as aluminum adjuvants and ethyl-mercury in some vaccines are not "as safe as people are led to believe" these people will only continue trying to deny all evidence or any, and all arguments that would defy "these people's beliefs"...

Although the following research is not about aluminum adjuvants found in vaccines, it is another piece of evidence that aluminum is a toxin which causes oxidative stress and inflammation which can induce a myriad of neurological and other health related problems despite claims by "some people" of the contrary.

Aluminium, carbonyls and cytokines in human nipple aspirate fluids: Possible relationship between inflammation, oxidative stress and breast cancer microenvironment
F. Mannello, , D. Ligi, M. Canale

Department of Biomolecular Sciences, Section of Clinical Biochemistry and Cell Biology, University ‘Carlo Bo’ of Urbino, Italy

Received 2 May 2013, Revised 2 July 2013, Accepted 5 July 2013, Available online 12 July 2013

Abstract

The human breast is likely exposed to Al (aluminium) from many sources including diet and personal care products. Underarm applications of aluminium salt-based antiperspirant provide a possible long-term source of exposure, especially after underarm applications to shaved and abraded skin. Al research in breast fluids likely reflects the intraductal microenvironment. We found increased levels of aluminium in noninvasively collected nipple aspirate fluids (NAF) from 19 breast cancer patients compared with 16 healthy control subjects ( 268 vs 131 μg/l, respectively ; p < 0.0001 ). In the same NAF samples we found significantly increased levels of protein oxidative carbonyls in cancer patients compared to healthy women ( 2.35 vs 0.41 nmol/mg prot, respectively ; p < 0.0001 ). Aluminium content and carbonyl levels showed a significant positive linear correlation (r2 0.6628, p < 0.0001). In cancer NAF samples (containing higher amounts of aluminium salts) we also found a significantly increased levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines (IL-1β, IL-6, IL-12 p70, and TNF-α) and chemoattractant CC and CXC chemokines (IL-8, MIP-1α and MCP-1). In 12 invasive cancer NAF samples we found a significant positive linear correlation among aluminium, carbonyls and pro-inflammatory IL-6 cytokine (Y = 64.79x − 39.63, r2 0.8192, p < 0.0005), as well as pro-inflammatory monocyte chemoattractant MCP-1 cytokine (Y = 2026x − 866, r2 0.9495, p < 0.0001). In addition to emerging evidence, our results support the possible involvement of aluminium ions in oxidative and inflammatory status perturbations of breast cancer microenvironment, suggesting aluminium accumulation in breast microenvironment as a possible risk factor for oxidative/inflammatory phenotype of breast cells.
...

www.sciencedirect.com...

Plasma aluminum is a risk factor for oxidative stress and inflammation status in hemodialysis patients
Chih-Hung Guo, Chia-Liang Wang

Institute of Biomedical Nutrition, Hung Kuang University, Taichung 433, Taiwan, ROC
Department of Nephrology, Kuang-Tien General Hospital, Taichung 433, Taiwan, ROC

Received 9 February 2011, Revised 11 August 2011, Accepted 14 August 2011, Available online 25 August 2011

DOI: 10.1016/j.clinbiochem.2011.08.1132

Abstract

Objectives

The association between aluminum (Al), essential trace metals, oxidative stress, and inflammation status was evaluated in hemodialysis patients.

Design and methods

Biochemical parameters in blood were determined in long-term hemodialysis patients (n = 69) and age- and sex-matched healthy individuals (n = 30).

Results

Compared with healthy subjects, patients had significantly higher concentrations of plasma Al. Elevated Al was negatively associated with the essential metals zinc, selenium, and iron. Al concentrations were strongly and positively correlated with contents of the oxidation products malondialdehyde and protein carbonyl. Inverse relationships were observed between Al concentrations and reduced concentrations of glutathione, β-carotene, vitamin C, and vitamin E. Patients were also observed to have significantly increased production values of plasma high-sensitivity C-reactive protein, tumor necrosis factor-α, and interleukin-5.

Conclusion

An increased plasma Al concentration is associated with disturbed concentrations of essential metals, increased oxidative stress, and increased inflammation status in hemodialysis patients
...

www.sciencedirect.com...

Hippocampal neuronal metal ion imbalance related oxidative stress in a rat model of chronic aluminum exposure and neuroprotection of meloxicam

Lijuan Yu1, Rong Jiang2, Qiang Su1, Huarong Yu1* and Junqing Yang1*

* Corresponding authors: Huarong Yu [email protected] - Junqing Yang [email protected]
Author Affiliations
1 Department of Pharmacology, Chongqing Key Laboratory of Biochemistry and Molecular Pharmacology, Medical College Rd. No 1, Chongqing Medical University, Chongqing 400016, P. R. China

2 Department of Stem Cells and Tissue Engineering, Chongqing Medical University, Chongqing 400016, P. R. China

For all author emails, please log on.

Behavioral and Brain Functions 2014, 10:6 doi:10.1186/1744-9081-10-6

The electronic version of this article is the complete one and can be found online at: www.behavioralandbrainfunctions.com...

Received: 2 September 2013
Accepted: 28 February 2014
Published: 11 March 2014

© 2014 Yu et al.; licensee BioMed Central Ltd.


This is an Open Access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License (creativecommons.org...), which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is properly credited.


Abstract
Neurodegenerative diseases remain a significant unresolved societal burden afflicting millions of people worldwide. Neurons in the brain are highly sensitive to oxidative stress, which can be induced by metal toxicity. In this paper, a chronic aluminum overload-induced model of neurodegeneration was used to investigate whether metal ions (Al, Fe, Mn, Cu and Zn)-related oxidative stress was involved in neurodegenerative mechanism and to identify the protective action of meloxicam against rat hippocampal neuronal injury. The metal ion contents, activity of superoxide dismutase (SOD), and content of malondialdehyde (MDA) were detected. The results showed that the spatial learning and memory (SLM) function was significantly impaired in chronic aluminum overload rats. Considerable karyopycnosis was observed in hippocampal neurons. The SOD activity was weakened and the MDA content increased both significantly. In the hippocampus, Al, Fe, Mn, Cu, and Zn contents increased by 184.1%, 186.1%, 884.2%, 199.4% and 149.2%, respectively. Meloxicam administration (without Al) had no effect compared with the control group, while meloxicam treatment with aluminum exposure significantly protected rats from SLM function impairment, neuron death, lower SOD activity, higher MDA content and brain metal ion imbalance. Our findings suggest that the cerebral metal ion imbalance-related oxidative stress is involved in mechanism of cerebral injury and neurodegeneration induced by chronic Al overload in rats, and that meloxicam protects neurons by reducing metal ion imbalance-related oxidative stress.


Keywords: Neurodegeneration; Metal ion; Meloxicam; Aluminum overload; Oxidative stress
...

www.behavioralandbrainfunctions.com...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Pardon?

Here's the response to the first two about MMF.
www.who.int...
Basically what that says is since there were no control groups it's impossible to rule a specific association.
It's just correlation.

First of all, note the above. This is how you "properly" quote someone and then post your response outside the quote. The way you quote someone in your threads is very confusing. Not to mention that you also leave out links to where much of your info comes from.

Second, you actually think people are stupid. You post a link to a WHO document which mentions a study from 2002 in response to a study from 2011?... So, you want to claim the earlier statement from the WHO link you gave about a study from 2002 refutes studies done AFTER 2002, including the one I posted from 2011?...

You would try anything and everything to dismiss this won't you?... From LYING by claiming "vaccines don't contain ethylmercury/mercury anymore", to twisting what people actually say and posting "opinions" from blogs, to using nothing but insults to try to dismiss what you actually can't refute using a rational argument...

You need to read properly else you'll make mistakes.

The passage says INITIATED IN 2002
Here's the original study.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih....

The ones you linked to were long-term studies of the original subjects hence why the study WAS INITIATED in 2002 after the original.
The control groups were still as absent as they were in the first though.

The response still stands.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

Yeah...talk about "disingenuous"... Dismissing what a physician and autoimmunity researcher has to say about adjuvants in vaccines just by trying to insult him and dismiss whatever he, alongside many other doctors, and specialists have to say which contradict "Pardon's" claims.... Ironic that you mention this to say the least...

Let's continue...

Yes lets.

Lucija Tomljenovic is NOT a physician.
She has a PhD in biochemistry.
She doesn't diagnose nor treat anyone.
Nor is she a recognised or reputable autoimmune researcher.
That would make her an immunologist.
Which she isn't.

Chris Shaw is NOT a physician.
He's a professor of opthalmology.
He doesn't diagnose nor treat anyone.
Nor is he a recognised or reputable autoimmune researcher.
That would make him an immunologist.
Which he isn't.

So you say I dismiss "what a physician and autoimmunity researcher has to say about adjuvants in vaccines just by trying to insult him".
Nope.
As I've said they're neither of the things you say they are and their "research" is junk science.
And the reason they produce such junk science is explained in this link.
www.harpocratesspeaks.com...

originally posted by: Pardon?

And then you post a paper from the Geiers...
A pair who will do anything to prove a link to autism and mercury because they run a business lying to parents that they can CURE their children's autism by removing the non-existent mercury from them.
They use Lupron.
Lupron is a chemical used for chemical castration.
There is no scientific evidence that it chelates mercury nor that it cures autism.
A little piece showing just how honest and ethical the Geiers are
leftbrainrightbrain.co.uk...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
Wow... First, to make it clear I don't endorse using Lupron in children to chelate because it has a lot of negative side effects, and castration isn't one of them... But, to the point, you are being completely dishonest on why leuprolide acetate/Lupron is used for, and the different effects it may have depending on what doses and with what frequency it is used...

Let's actually read what real medical science has to say about Lupron/leuprolide acetate shall we?...

Expert Opin Investig Drugs. 2007 Nov;16(11):1851-63.

Leuprolide acetate: a drug of diverse clinical applications.

Wilson AC1, Meethal SV, Bowen RL, Atwood CS.


Author information


Abstract

Leuprolide acetate is a synthetic nonapeptide that is a potent gonadotropin-releasing hormone receptor (GnRHR) agonist used for diverse clinical applications, including the treatment of prostate cancer, endometriosis, uterine fibroids, central precocious puberty and in vitro fertilization techniques. As its basic mechanism of action, leuprolide acetate suppresses gonadotrope secretion of luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone that subsequently suppresses gonadal sex steroid production. In addition, leuprolide acetate is presently being tested for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease, polycystic ovary syndrome, functional bowel disease, short stature, premenstrual syndrome and even as an alternative for contraception. Mounting evidence suggests that GnRH agonist suppression of serum gonadotropins may also be important in many of the clinical applications described above. Moreover, the presence of GnRHR in a multitude of non-reproductive tissues including the recent discovery of GnRHR expression in the hippocampi and cortex of the human brain indicates that GnRH analogs such as leuprolide acetate may also act directly via tissue GnRHRs to modulate (brain) function. Thus, the molecular mechanisms underlying the therapeutic effect of GnRH analogs in the treatment of these diseases may be more complex than originally thought. These observations also suggest that the potential uses of GnRH analogs in the modulation of GnRH signaling and treatment of disease has yet to be fully realized.
...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

In order to be "castrated chemically" by a drug such as leuprolide acetate you need that person to continuously use the drug. If use of the drug is discontinued, and depending on what frequency and how long it was used, "chemical castration" is generally reversible... But of course you can't state any of that instead you make a bold statement that "Lupron causes chemical castration" relying on the fact that most people won't even bother to look at what this drug is used for and what can, or can't do.

Lupron isn't used to mainly "chemically castrate people"... Most of it's used is not to "chemically castrate" but it is used to treat the symptoms of certain types of cancer by slowing down the production of hormones.

BTW, Lupron is also used to treat children with central precocious puberty among other uses.

...
LUPRON DEPOT‑PED® (leuprolide acetate for depot suspension) 7.5 mg, 11.25 mg and 15 mg for 1-month and 11.25 mg and 30 mg for 3-month administration are prescribed for the treatment of children with central precocious puberty (CPP).

Doctors may diagnose children with CPP when signs of sexual maturity begin to develop in girls under the age of 8 or boys under the age of 9. Your doctor should perform tests to rule out possible causes of early puberty that would require different treatment (e.g., tumors).
...

www.lupron.com...

Of course, instead of actually informing people of what this drug is used for you resort to exaggerating what it does by implying that "leurolide acetate/Lupron castrates chemically"... But of course someone like you would "believe" the above more so when you have even tried to imply that it doesn't matter at what doses children or adults get aluminum, or mercury into their bodies. You seem to 'believe" that "the body will excrete it all "miracously" no matter what dose of mercury or aluminum is introduced into a person's body...

Right.
I'm guessing you don't know what chemical castration is.
Lupron is used for chemical castration (it doesn't CAUSE chemical castration as you wrote that I posted it did)
It interrupts the production of hormones which stops the production of sex hormones.
From your link...
"As its basic mechanism of action, leuprolide acetate suppresses gonadotrope secretion of luteinizing hormone and follicle-stimulating hormone that subsequently suppresses gonadal sex steroid production."
That, in essence, is chemical castration.
en.wikipedia.org...

You're highlighting the parts which fit in with your belief and not the important parts.
That's dishonest.
I notice though that it's not currently recommended for nor being tested for children with autism though which was my original point so your exercise in convolution and distraction has failed.
Therefore my original point about the Geiers is still valid.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

But of course someone like you would "believe" the above more so when you have even tried to imply that it doesn't matter at what doses children or adults get aluminum, or mercury into their bodies. You seem to 'believe" that "the body will excrete it all "miracously" no matter what dose of mercury or aluminum is introduced into a person's body...

Any chance you can point out to me where I've posted that the dose doesn't matter as I'm 100% certain that's YOUR argument not mine.
And the body doesn't "excrete it all "miracously (sic)" ". It follows a distinct physiological pattern.
Although to you, given the understanding of physiology you've consistently shown in this thread, it may seem like a miracle...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Pardon?

First of all, and like I have already mentioned, you need to learn to post links to all the excerpts you give, and properly quote the sources you are giving from external links. As in using within quotes [ ex ] when you start to quote from an external link, and [ /ex ] when you finish quoting. It's hard to properly discern when you are excerpting quotes from an external link or when you are making a comment in response to what another member has written. Not to mention that you keep giving "opinions" from blogs as evidence...

As to the claims by this "Prometheus" person you are quoting, there have been studies and even a whistleblower, among others, of a vaccine manufacturer who would "disagree", at least when he was being recorded and didn't know it, with your claims and those of "Prometheus" about no evidence that the prevalence of autism is higher in some races than in others.

As to the research on HBV and the incidence of autism in neonatal children. First, even in the paper the researchers specified the differences in the age among the children in the study who were vaccinated (before 1999) and the non-vaccinated group.

The researchers were trying to find if there was a similar link of autism in other age groups of vaccinated children, because in case you didn't know among the groups which are recommended that should be vaccinated for HBV, it includes children/young adults who haven't received the vaccine before age of 19.

Of course, any sane person would also know that aluminum and other compounds/substances such as ethylmercury would affect neonatal, and generally young children more than it would affect older patients, but I am guessing "Prometheus" and "Pardon" didn't take this into account either.

BTW, do notice that I specifically mentioned "among other groups" that are recommended to be vaccinated for HBV. I state this because I know damn well you will try to twist anything I type around in your attempts to dismiss what I have to say or post as evidence here.

Anyways, here is more evidence of the "non-existant link claimed by Pardon et al" of aluminum adjuvants and ethylmercury with neurological disorders and other health problems...

DNA released from dying host cells mediates aluminum adjuvant activity
Thomas Marichal,
Keiichi Ohata,
Denis Bedoret,
Claire Mesnil,
Catherine Sabatel,
Kouji Kobiyama,
Pierre Lekeux,
Cevayir Coban,
Shizuo Akira,
Ken J Ishii,
Fabrice Bureau
& Christophe J Desmet
Affiliations
Contributions
Corresponding authors
Nature Medicine 17, 996–1002 (2011) doi:10.1038/nm.2403 Received 11 February 2011 Accepted 19 May 2011 Published online 17 July 2011

Abstract


Abstract•
References•
Author information•
Supplementary information

Aluminum-based adjuvants (aluminum salts or alum) are widely used in human vaccination, although their mechanisms of action are poorly understood. Here we report that, in mice, alum causes cell death and the subsequent release of host cell DNA, which acts as a potent endogenous immunostimulatory signal mediating alum adjuvant activity. Furthermore, we propose that host DNA signaling differentially regulates IgE and IgG1 production after alum-adjuvanted immunization. We suggest that, on the one hand, host DNA induces primary B cell responses, including IgG1 production, through interferon response factor 3 (Irf3)-independent mechanisms. On the other hand, we suggest that host DNA also stimulates 'canonical' T helper type 2 (TH2) responses, associated with IgE isotype switching and peripheral effector responses, through Irf3-dependent mechanisms. The finding that host DNA released from dying cells acts as a damage-associated molecular pattern that mediates alum adjuvant activity may increase our understanding of the mechanisms of action of current vaccines and help in the design of new adjuvants.
...

www.nature.com...


BTW, to specify as to what the above paper is referring to when they mention that aluminum adjuvants induce IgG1 and IgE production.

IgG1 (most abundant type of Immunoglobulin G)

IgG antibody subtype is the most abundant serum immunoglobulins of the immune system. It is secreted by B cells and is found in blood and extracellular fluids and provides protection from infections caused by bacteria, fungi and viruses.
...

www.sigmaaldrich.com...

IgE (Immunoglobulin E)

IgE not only provides protective immunity against helminth parasites but can also mediate the type I hypersensitivity reactions that contribute to the pathogenesis of allergic diseases such as asthma, allergic rhinitis and atopic dermatitis.
...

www.nature.com...

Here's the conclusion based upon ALL of the research into vaccines and autism.
www.iflscience.com...
If you're not sure what a meta study is, look it up.


As for your second link.
It's in mice...and this is the conclusion
"The finding that host DNA released from dying cells acts as a damage-associated molecular pattern that mediates alum adjuvant activity may increase our understanding of the mechanisms of action of current vaccines and help in the design of new adjuvants."
So the study is giving us more information as to why adjuvants do what they're supposed to do when used in vaccines.
Is that bad?

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

A role for the body burden of aluminium in vaccine-associated macrophagic myofasciitis and chronic fatigue syndrome

A role for the body burden of aluminium in vaccine-associated macrophagic myofasciitis and chronic fatigue syndrome

Christopher Exley, Louise Swarbrick, Rhomain K. Gherardi, Francois-Jérôme Authier


Received: August 28, 2008; Accepted: September 4, 2008; Published Online: November 12, 2008

DOI: dx.doi.org...

Summary

Macrophagic myofasciitis and chronic fatigue syndrome are severely disabling conditions which may be caused by adverse reactions to aluminium-containing adjuvants in vaccines. While a little is known of disease aetiology both conditions are characterised by an aberrant immune response, have a number of prominent symptoms in common and are coincident in many individuals. Herein, we have described a case of vaccine-associated chronic fatigue syndrome and macrophagic myofasciitis in an individual demonstrating aluminium overload. This is the first report linking the latter with either of these two conditions and the possibility is considered that the coincident aluminium overload contributed significantly to the severity of these conditions in this individual. This case has highlighted potential dangers associated with aluminium-containing adjuvants and we have elucidated a possible mechanism whereby vaccination involving aluminium-containing adjuvants could trigger the cascade of immunological events which are associated with autoimmune conditions including chronic fatigue syndrome and macrophagic myofasciitis.
...

www.medical-hypotheses.com...(08)00493-3/abstract

BTW, has anyone noticed how "certain people" will resort to label those who disagree with them on issues such as this one as "anti-vaxers" etc, etc. They do this despite the fact that I never said that "all vaccines should be banned"... I merely have stated and posted evidence that indicates that vaccines which have certain compounds such as "ethylmercury, and aluminum" are not as safe as "some people claim they are... Notice how they do this even when there is evidence that such disagreement with them has merit...

As for whether or not the nurse had a right to refuse the flu vaccine... She was pregnant, and even had a doctor's exemption to the vaccine... She, alongside many other nurses as well as doctors, did her research and made an informed decision. However, as we can see there are people who despite whatever evidence is presented will only continue trying to claim that "only they" are capable of knowing what doctor or researcher is able to make an informed decision on this topic...

Despite the plethora of evidence which shows the compounds such as aluminum adjuvants and ethyl-mercury in some vaccines are not "as safe as people are led to believe" these people will only continue trying to deny all evidence or any, and all arguments that would defy "these people's beliefs"...

I'm not sure if you've realised this but the paper you're quoting doesn't show any proof.
It only shows possibilities, hypotheses if you will.
Not really evidence is it?
Well, for you it might be but it's not scientific evidence.

Like I've said, the nurse broke the rules and was fired for it.
That's not infringing upon rights.
And her knowledge and belief about vaccines, like yours, was not based upon scientific evidence as her "research" wasn't very good.

And to turn your thinly veiled rant around...
Despite the thousands of studies which show that vaccines are safe and despite the overwhelming evidence that shows beyond all doubt that the amounts of adjuvants and ingredients in vaccines do not cause any harm there are still people who refuse to accept this and propagate an unsubstantiated belief system in place of science.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

Plasma aluminum is a risk factor for oxidative stress and inflammation status in hemodialysis patients
Chih-Hung Guo, Chia-Liang Wang

Institute of Biomedical Nutrition, Hung Kuang University, Taichung 433, Taiwan, ROC
Department of Nephrology, Kuang-Tien General Hospital, Taichung 433, Taiwan, ROC

Received 9 February 2011, Revised 11 August 2011, Accepted 14 August 2011, Available online 25 August 2011

DOI: 10.1016/j.clinbiochem.2011.08.1132

Abstract

Objectives

The association between aluminum (Al), essential trace metals, oxidative stress, and inflammation status was evaluated in hemodialysis patients.

Design and methods

Biochemical parameters in blood were determined in long-term hemodialysis patients (n = 69) and age- and sex-matched healthy individuals (n = 30).

Results

Compared with healthy subjects, patients had significantly higher concentrations of plasma Al. Elevated Al was negatively associated with the essential metals zinc, selenium, and iron. Al concentrations were strongly and positively correlated with contents of the oxidation products malondialdehyde and protein carbonyl. Inverse relationships were observed between Al concentrations and reduced concentrations of glutathione, β-carotene, vitamin C, and vitamin E. Patients were also observed to have significantly increased production values of plasma high-sensitivity C-reactive protein, tumor necrosis factor-α, and interleukin-5.

Conclusion

An increased plasma Al concentration is associated with disturbed concentrations of essential metals, increased oxidative stress, and increased inflammation status in hemodialysis patients
...

www.sciencedirect.com...

Hippocampal neuronal metal ion imbalance related oxidative stress in a rat model of chronic aluminum exposure and neuroprotection of meloxicam

Lijuan Yu1, Rong Jiang2, Qiang Su1, Huarong Yu1* and Junqing Yang1*

* Corresponding authors: Huarong Yu [email protected] - Junqing Yang [email protected]
Author Affiliations
1 Department of Pharmacology, Chongqing Key Laboratory of Biochemistry and Molecular Pharmacology, Medical College Rd. No 1, Chongqing Medical University, Chongqing 400016, P. R. China

2 Department of Stem Cells and Tissue Engineering, Chongqing Medical University, Chongqing 400016, P. R. China

For all author emails, please log on.

Behavioral and Brain Functions 2014, 10:6 doi:10.1186/1744-9081-10-6

The electronic version of this article is the complete one and can be found online at: www.behavioralandbrainfunctions.com...

Received: 2 September 2013
Accepted: 28 February 2014
Published: 11 March 2014

© 2014 Yu et al.; licensee BioMed Central Ltd.


This is an Open Access article distributed under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License (creativecommons.org...), which permits unrestricted use, distribution, and reproduction in any medium, provided the original work is properly credited.


Abstract
Neurodegenerative diseases remain a significant unresolved societal burden afflicting millions of people worldwide. Neurons in the brain are highly sensitive to oxidative stress, which can be induced by metal toxicity. In this paper, a chronic aluminum overload-induced model of neurodegeneration was used to investigate whether metal ions (Al, Fe, Mn, Cu and Zn)-related oxidative stress was involved in neurodegenerative mechanism and to identify the protective action of meloxicam against rat hippocampal neuronal injury. The metal ion contents, activity of superoxide dismutase (SOD), and content of malondialdehyde (MDA) were detected. The results showed that the spatial learning and memory (SLM) function was significantly impaired in chronic aluminum overload rats. Considerable karyopycnosis was observed in hippocampal neurons. The SOD activity was weakened and the MDA content increased both significantly. In the hippocampus, Al, Fe, Mn, Cu, and Zn contents increased by 184.1%, 186.1%, 884.2%, 199.4% and 149.2%, respectively. Meloxicam administration (without Al) had no effect compared with the control group, while meloxicam treatment with aluminum exposure significantly protected rats from SLM function impairment, neuron death, lower SOD activity, higher MDA content and brain metal ion imbalance. Our findings suggest that the cerebral metal ion imbalance-related oxidative stress is involved in mechanism of cerebral injury and neurodegeneration induced by chronic Al overload in rats, and that meloxicam protects neurons by reducing metal ion imbalance-related oxidative stress.


Keywords: Neurodegeneration; Metal ion; Meloxicam; Aluminum overload; Oxidative stress
...

www.behavioralandbrainfunctions.com...

Yep.
You were right, they have absolutely nothing to do with vaccines.
Well done, something correct at last.

originally posted by: Pardon?

I'm not sure if you've realised this but the paper you're quoting doesn't show any proof.
It only shows possibilities, hypotheses if you will.
Not really evidence is it?
Well, for you it might be but it's not scientific evidence.

Like I've said, the nurse broke the rules and was fired for it.
That's not infringing upon rights.
And her knowledge and belief about vaccines, like yours, was not based upon scientific evidence as her "research" wasn't very good.

And to turn your thinly veiled rant around...
Despite the thousands of studies which show that vaccines are safe and despite the overwhelming evidence that shows beyond all doubt that the amounts of adjuvants and ingredients in vaccines do not cause any harm there are still people who refuse to accept this and propagate an unsubstantiated belief system in place of science.

First of all your whole argument, among some other people, has been that "vaccines are completely safe and there is no proof that they are not"... I have presented several research papers and doctors and specialists who refute your claims.

Some doctors and researchers say there are more questions than others, and others along their research show that the adjuvants and other compounds such as ethyl mercury in vaccines are not safe... I have NEVER written that "all research agrees that vaccines are not safe"... What I have stated time and again is that there is research that shows "vaccines with aluminum adjuvants and other compounds like ethyl-mercury are not as safe as people like you proclaim they are.

There is no question that there are vaccines which are needed, and there are vaccines that do not contain either as much, or any aluminum adjuvants or ethyl-mercury. Children these days are receiving more vaccines than in years past. Research shows that aluminum adjuvants, and other compounds like ethyl-mercury cause oxidative stress, and inflammation among other symptoms which are also symptoms found in neurological disorders and other health related illnesses which has been at an exponential increase.

I know that there are doctors and even specialists who claim "all vaccines are safe and aluminum adjuvants alongside other compounds are safe"... But guess what?... For every doctor and specialist who claims that vaccines are safe I can show you another doctor, or specialist who says they are not as safe and that parents should request that their children get vaccines that do not contain aluminum adjuvants or ethyl-mercury...

BTW, like I have already shown, ethyl-mercury was supposed to have been completely banned from vaccines yet to this day 60% of flu vaccines, alongside some others, still contain ethylmercury. All multi-dose flu shots STILL CONTAIN ETHYL-MECURY despite the claims, which is more of a lie, from some people that claim vaccines do not contain ethyl-mercury anymore...

originally posted by: Pardon?


Yep.
You were right, they have absolutely nothing to do with vaccines.
Well done, something correct at last.

They?... It was ONE research and I posted it to show part of other evidence which proves aluminum adjuvants cause oxidative stress, and inflammation among other detrimental effects on human health.

Like I knew it you try to twist anything and everything but that only shows how desperate people like you are to deny what is right in front of you.

BTW, to prove my point let me show you how that link you gave lies to your face and people like you are dumb enough to believe them for "whatever motive" you might have.

At the end of that link you gave which is more opinion than fact, the author of that link you gave, "Stephen Luntz", states and I quote...

Just to rub it in, no relationship was found between autism and exposure to mercury, including in thimerosal, the mercury compound once used as a preservative for vaccines and products such as tattoo inks, but now discontinued for vaccines in the United States and Europe as a result of unproven fears.

www.iflscience.com...

When the FACT is actually the contrary to what he, and you "claim"...

...
Why was thimerosal removed from vaccines given to children?
•Although no evidence suggests that there are safety concerns with thimerosal, vaccine manufacturers have stopped using it as a precautionary measure.The only vaccine that still includes thimerosal as a preservative is the multi-dose inactivated influenza vaccine. There are other formulations of flu vaccine that do not include thimerosal.
...

www.cdc.gov...

Not to mention that the CDC and FDA claim that they test all batches of vaccines before they are given to the public despite the fact that in several instances contaminated vaccines have been released to the public and have infected millions and neither the CDC nor the FDA did tests on those vaccines because if they did they would have found that the vaccines were contaminated. Then there is also the fact that neither the CDC nor the FDA test vaccines that have been "purified' as claimed by vaccine manufacturers as there is no protocol neither for the FDA or CDC to "test" whether those vaccines have actually been "purified" of adjuvants or other toxic compounds.

For crying out loud I even gave links to the ingredients that vaccine manufacturers still use TO THIS DAY and they clearly state that "multi-dose flu shot vaccines still contain ethyl-mercury"... Yet you, and some other people, want to claim that they don't...

Some other vaccines that still use ethyl-mercury.

...
Meningococcal Polysaccharide Vaccine, Groups A, C, Y, W135 Combined
Menomune-A/C/Y/W-135

Sanofi Pasteur Inc.
Jan. 2009
Mueller Hinton casein agar, Watson Scherp casamino acid media distilled water, thimersol, polysaccharide from serogroups A, C, Y, and w-135, mercury, lactose
...

vaccines.procon.org...

...
Haemophilus b Conjugate Vaccine (Tetanus Toxoid Conjugate)
ActHIB

Sanofi Pasteur, Inc.
May 2009
ammonium sulfate, formalin, Modified Mueller and Miller medium, saline diluent, formaldehyde sucrose, thimerosal, purified capsular polysaccharide
...
Influenza Virus Vaccine
Fluvirin

Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics Limited
Feb. 26, 2013
allantoic cavity of embryonated hens' eggs, neomycin, polymyxin, betapropiolactone, nonylphenol ethoxylate, phosphate-buffered saline, thimerosal, egg proteins, polymyxin, neomycin, betapropiolactone, nonylphenol ethoxylate

vaccines.procon.org...


I have to wonder how you can believe "such a claim' when they are lying to your face. Well, you seem to be doing the same here so I guess that answers why you would believe "such lies"...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Pardon?

I'm not sure if you've realised this but the paper you're quoting doesn't show any proof.
It only shows possibilities, hypotheses if you will.
Not really evidence is it?
Well, for you it might be but it's not scientific evidence.

Like I've said, the nurse broke the rules and was fired for it.
That's not infringing upon rights.
And her knowledge and belief about vaccines, like yours, was not based upon scientific evidence as her "research" wasn't very good.

And to turn your thinly veiled rant around...
Despite the thousands of studies which show that vaccines are safe and despite the overwhelming evidence that shows beyond all doubt that the amounts of adjuvants and ingredients in vaccines do not cause any harm there are still people who refuse to accept this and propagate an unsubstantiated belief system in place of science.

First of all your whole argument, among some other people, has been that "vaccines are completely safe and there is no proof that they are not"... I have presented several research papers and doctors and specialists who refute your claims.

Some doctors and researchers say there are more questions than others, and others along their research show that the adjuvants and other compounds such as ethyl mercury in vaccines are not safe... I have NEVER written that "all research agrees that vaccines are not safe"... What I have stated time and again is that there is research that shows "vaccines with aluminum adjuvants and other compounds like ethyl-mercury are not as safe as people like you proclaim they are.

There is no question that there are vaccines which are needed, and there are vaccines that do not contain either as much, or any aluminum adjuvants or ethyl-mercury. Children these days are receiving more vaccines than in years past. Research shows that aluminum adjuvants, and other compounds like ethyl-mercury cause oxidative stress, and inflammation among other symptoms which are also symptoms found in neurological disorders and other health related illnesses which has been at an exponential increase.

I know that there are doctors and even specialists who claim "all vaccines are safe and aluminum adjuvants alongside other compounds are safe"... But guess what?... For every doctor and specialist who claims that vaccines are safe I can show you another doctor, or specialist who says they are not as safe and that parents should request that their children get vaccines that do not contain aluminum adjuvants or ethyl-mercury...

BTW, like I have already shown, ethyl-mercury was supposed to have been completely banned from vaccines yet to this day 60% of flu vaccines, alongside some others, still contain ethylmercury. All multi-dose flu shots STILL CONTAIN ETHYL-MECURY despite the claims, which is more of a lie, from some people that claim vaccines do not contain ethyl-mercury anymore...

Wrong.
My argument is that you're using wrong science to try to substantiate a false belief that vaccines cause a myriad of illnesses.
You're attempting to do this by posting bad science and out of context research.
The "doctors" you cite either post dishonest, fake or fraudulent papers and/or they don't and have never worked in the field of immunology.
Show me papers from vaccine and immunology researchers. You know, real ones.
Ones who have worked in the field, have credentials in the field, have produced credible and reproducible research in the field.
Show me papers from these people that are vaccine specific.
Not ones that show mercury is bad or aluminium is bad.
We know that already.
And we also know that their toxicity is directly related to the dose and that dose far exceeds those found in vaccines.
Then, and only then will I take you seriously.

Pretty much every GP in the UK will tell you that the benefits of vaccines far, far outweigh the minuscule risk.
Pretty much every paediatrician in the UK will tell you that the benefits of vaccines far, far outweigh the minuscule risk.
Pretty much every immunologist in the UK will tell you that the benefits of vaccines far, far outweigh the minuscule risk.
Pretty much every infectious disease consultant in the UK will tell you that the benefits of vaccines far, far outweigh the minuscule risk.
Pretty much everyone who has any dealings with children's health in the UK will tell you that the benefits of vaccines far, far outweigh the minuscule risk.
That number runs into the tens of thousands in the UK alone.
And you're telling me you can match that figure with those who say they're bad?

That's a lie.
Unless of course you can provide a list of them...

Oh, no-one's claimed that vaccines don't contain ethyl-mercury and that they have been completely banned.
You're getting confused again.
Thimerasol was removed from all routine children's vaccines and most others over a decade ago.
It was never and still isn't banned as you say.
It was a voluntary removal because of the inane fear people like you have of it was stopping people from getting their kids vaccinated.
But you and your ilk still propagate and regurgitate the fallacy that mercury in vaccines is bad without having any proof whatsoever that it is or ever has been.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: Pardon?


Yep.
You were right, they have absolutely nothing to do with vaccines.
Well done, something correct at last.

They?... It was ONE research and I posted it to show part of other evidence which proves aluminum adjuvants cause oxidative stress, and inflammation among other detrimental effects on human health.

Like I knew it you try to twist anything and everything but that only shows how desperate people like you are to deny what is right in front of you.

BTW, to prove my point let me show you how that link you gave lies to your face and people like you are dumb enough to believe them for "whatever motive" you might have.

At the end of that link you gave which is more opinion than fact, the author of that link you gave, "Stephen Luntz", states and I quote...

Just to rub it in, no relationship was found between autism and exposure to mercury, including in thimerosal, the mercury compound once used as a preservative for vaccines and products such as tattoo inks, but now discontinued for vaccines in the United States and Europe as a result of unproven fears.

www.iflscience.com...

When the FACT is actually the contrary to what he, and you "claim"...

...
Why was thimerosal removed from vaccines given to children?
•Although no evidence suggests that there are safety concerns with thimerosal, vaccine manufacturers have stopped using it as a precautionary measure.The only vaccine that still includes thimerosal as a preservative is the multi-dose inactivated influenza vaccine. There are other formulations of flu vaccine that do not include thimerosal.
...

www.cdc.gov...

Not to mention that the CDC and FDA claim that they test all batches of vaccines before they are given to the public despite the fact that in several instances contaminated vaccines have been released to the public and have infected millions and neither the CDC nor the FDA did tests on those vaccines because if they did they would have found that the vaccines were contaminated. Then there is also the fact that neither the CDC nor the FDA test vaccines that have been "purified' as claimed by vaccine manufacturers as there is no protocol neither for the FDA or CDC to "test" whether those vaccines have actually been "purified" of adjuvants or other toxic compounds.

For crying out loud I even gave links to the ingredients that vaccine manufacturers still use TO THIS DAY and they clearly state that "multi-dose flu shot vaccines still contain ethyl-mercury"... Yet you, and some other people, want to claim that they don't...

Some other vaccines that still use ethyl-mercury.

...
Meningococcal Polysaccharide Vaccine, Groups A, C, Y, W135 Combined
Menomune-A/C/Y/W-135

Sanofi Pasteur Inc.
Jan. 2009
Mueller Hinton casein agar, Watson Scherp casamino acid media distilled water, thimersol, polysaccharide from serogroups A, C, Y, and w-135, mercury, lactose
...

vaccines.procon.org...

...
Haemophilus b Conjugate Vaccine (Tetanus Toxoid Conjugate)
ActHIB

Sanofi Pasteur, Inc.
May 2009
ammonium sulfate, formalin, Modified Mueller and Miller medium, saline diluent, formaldehyde sucrose, thimerosal, purified capsular polysaccharide
...
Influenza Virus Vaccine
Fluvirin

Novartis Vaccines and Diagnostics Limited
Feb. 26, 2013
allantoic cavity of embryonated hens' eggs, neomycin, polymyxin, betapropiolactone, nonylphenol ethoxylate, phosphate-buffered saline, thimerosal, egg proteins, polymyxin, neomycin, betapropiolactone, nonylphenol ethoxylate

vaccines.procon.org...


I have to wonder how you can believe "such a claim' when they are lying to your face. Well, you seem to be doing the same here so I guess that answers why you would believe "such lies"...

Right.

The IFLScience piece that I linked to was a short commentary on this vast piece of research.
The paper itself isn't an opinion piece.
Vaccines are not associated with autism: An evidence-based meta-analysis of case-control and cohort studies
So put your bias to the side and read the real research.
I know you won't believe it but it's fact, irrespective of what you believe.


Instead of looking silly by repeatedly posting links showing nasty chemical ingredients post links that show that these nasty ingredients cause harm when administered in the doses they are produced with.

Oh, here's a link you probably should add to your collection.
www.vaccinesafety.edu...#*_

And don't eat tuna.
Or shellfish.
Ever.

a reply to: Pardon?


I can say the same for you. But again, you keep showing to want to dismiss anything and everything that doesn't conform to your belief. I presented real research from several peer-reviewed sources, and dozens of doctors and specialists, yet you dismiss it all simply because you don't want to entertain the possibility that you are wrong.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: Pardon?


I can say the same for you. But again, you keep showing to want to dismiss anything and everything that doesn't conform to your belief. I presented real research from several peer-reviewed sources, and dozens of doctors and specialists, yet you dismiss it all simply because you don't want to entertain the possibility that you are wrong.

Nope.
Wrong again.
I've explained why the "science" you're citing is unacceptable yet for some bizarre reason you keep on promoting it.
And you seem incapable of understanding why it's unacceptable.
That's indicative of a belief system, not science.

I'm more than happy to change what I know based upon verifiable and pertinent research.
Are you?

originally posted by: Pardon?


Nope.
Wrong again.
I've explained why the "science" you're citing is unacceptable yet for some bizarre reason you keep on promoting it.
And you seem incapable of understanding why it's unacceptable.
That's indicative of a belief system, not science.

I'm more than happy to change what I know based upon verifiable and pertinent research.
Are you?

Lol, you simply don't want to accept anything presented to you that differs with your own views...

You want to ignore what doctors, specialists and researchers have to say and what their research found. You want to claim "they are all pseudo-scientists" and not experts"... All based on the limited research you posted which obviously is there to side with big pharma, and to try to dismiss what many others have found.

You continuously keep ignoring even with the fact that not all batches of vaccines use the same ingredients, or the same adjuvants.

You fail to see that not all children get the same amount of vaccines. There are children, or adults who are given for example single doses of flu vaccines that don't have ethyl-mercury in them, while others receive multiple-dose flu vaccines which do still contain Thimerosal/ethyl-mercury... So of course there will be studies that will not find a link while others will...

Then there is the "propaganda", even coming from you. Heck, you have claimed so far that heavy metals like aluminum, and substances like ethyl-mercury cannot be toxic to the human body which is nothing more than a lie.

You claim the human body can easily get rid of these substances despite evidence that shows the contrary...

You want to claim this is not happening simply because not everyone is affected the same way, be it because not everyone gets the same accumulation of these substances since manufacturers of vaccines frequently change the ingredients of their vaccines; or because not everyone get as many vaccines as other children and adults get...