George Osborne proposes two year benefits freeze

originally posted by: Meee32
a reply to: Korg Trinity

I think it is you with the warped sense of reality actually, you cant even see your own hypocracy! So... YOU get attacked right? And you gonna whack them yes? But in the damn process you KILL millions of innocent people! Who btw have bloody families JUST LIKE YOURS! Oh but you dont think they will feel like you huh? They are now the ones wronged buddy! And THEY will want their revenge just like you!!

So what is your plan exactly? Just kill everyone huh? Good luck with that cos soon... You gonna run out of money and bullets! And god help you my friend!

The guy raised a valid point... There are many countries not going round the world killing everyone and they are NOT being attacked! It is as stupid as say a mass murderer in your town and then gov dropping bombs on it to get to em! It would be very retarded! What should we say? Ahh well their own fault for living there eh? Should have moved lmao... Too stoooopid.

Ahhh but its not in your country soo cool cool right? lmao...

It is though you think you are the only person i the world that should demand peace!

Not to mention, your bloomin country set most these "terrorists" up! You gave them the damn weapons and training! I seen you around, I know you like to THINK you are smart but you really cant work this out can you?

I see so you have the turn the other cheek type of mentality...

Trust me, if you don't stand up for yourself, they will walk all over you!

Simple playground advice!

Korg.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

No in your playground a bully punches or pushes you and so you go round attacking everyone and anyone you can lay your hands on! Dont you see the difference? The thing is america has been going around attacking countries killing people for as long as I can remember! Look at the first gulf "war" you were attacked were you?

I watched a documentary called behind the lines... Where this chap went into iraq to talk to the average folk, he went to coffee houses etc and the people were friendly to him but eventually they would say... "10 years! Its been 10 years and you still bomb us! Why???"

You really have no place to talk because see, you guys ARE the bullies! And these people are fighting back against YOU! And you MUST agree they are doing the right thing as this is what you say you should do!

These people live an a crappy enough place as it is!

You can't just go round killing everyone to get to a few guys that did you wrong bro! It's just unreasonable! You would not stand for that in your neighbourhood would you? I bring back the mass murderer, would you advocate the gov dropping bombs on your neighbourhood to get to one? Well would you?

This has nothing to do with turning the other cheek, whatsoever...

originally posted by: Meee32
a reply to: Korg Trinity

No in your playground a bully punches or pushes you and so you go round attacking everyone and anyone you can lay your hands on! Dont you see the difference? The thing is america has been going around attacking countries killing people for as long as I can remember! Look at the first gulf "war" you were attacked were you?

I watched a documentary called behind the lines... Where this chap went into iraq to talk to the average folk, he went to coffee houses etc and the people were friendly to him but eventually they would say... "10 years! Its been 10 years and you still bomb us! Why???"

You really have no place to talk because see, you guys ARE the bullies! And these people are fighting back against YOU! And you MUST agree they are doing the right thing as this is what you say you should do!

These people live an a crappy enough place as it is!

You can't just go round killing everyone to get to a few guys that did you wrong bro! It's just unreasonable! You would not stand for that in your neighbourhood would you? I bring back the mass murderer, would you advocate the gov dropping bombs on your neighbourhood to get to one? Well would you?

This has nothing to do with turning the other cheek, whatsoever...

You clearly have no understanding of what would happen if we just let the insurgence take root and build do you?

You appear to have zero understanding of what we are fighting for!

Would you like to be living under sharia law and bow down to your Muslim overlords?? Because if we do nothing at this point that is what will happen!

Korg.

a reply to: Korg Trinity

LOL It's total fear mongering non-sense my firend... You are that scared of muslims you think you need to kill every man woman and child? lmao...

It's like saddam hussain, you guys put him in place! You go round meddling everywhere dude! You are trying to spread american law all over the place but you guys dont even stick to it yourselves! You have even tortured people to death!

News reporters have come out and said they reported a lie to go into iraq regarding WMD. They openly said they didnt do their research and just repeated what they were told!

Muslim counries just like african countries need to grow more, that's all! Newsflash we have done barbaric things in our past too! WE treated women like crap, WE treated black people like crap... WE drowned people for being a witch... But in time we learned and grew... So will african and muslim nations.

You really think dropping bombs on them is going to help them to grow and learn faster? No dude you're holding up the process!

originally posted by: Meee32
a reply to: Korg Trinity

LOL It's total fear mongering non-sense my firend... You are that scared of muslims you think you need to kill every man woman and child? lmao...

It's like saddam hussain, you guys put him in place! You go round meddling everywhere dude! You are trying to spread american law all over the place but you guys dont even stick to it yourselves! You have even tortured people to death!

News reporters have come out and said they reported a lie to go into iraq regarding WMD. They openly said they didnt do their research and just repeated what they were told!

Muslim counries just like african countries need to grow more, that's all! Newsflash we have done barbaric things in our past too! WE treated women like crap, WE treated black people like crap... WE drowned people for being a witch... But in time we learned and grew... So will african and muslim nations.

You really think dropping bombs on them is going to help them to grow and learn faster? No dude you're holding up the process!

I didn't say kill every woman and child!

You see this is the total crock of sheet you bunch of do gooders always sprout.

First rule of Civilization.... be able to defend ones own borders!

If you have a group of people hell bent on killing you... what do you do... let them in? allow them to train? Watch them form there plans and do NOTHING!!!

It's your kind of attitude that got the world into the mess it's in, not the other way around!

you can go lie down and let them shoot you in the back... not me.. I'm going to damn make sure they are well dead before they had that chance!

Korg.

a reply to: crazyewok

I have a few close personal friends in the UK. England primarily who just are not getting by and working multiple jobs. I have heard for the better part of a decade that taxation on the citizens over there is just excessive. More than half of there earnings by some accounts.

I am not impressed by George Osbourne at all. He seems to be posturing for more influence in the conservative movement there and to bolster a possible tenure as Prime Minister in the near future.

I know they have far more social welfare programs there than most western nations do and that indeed it can be argued that has led to abuse and also complicated the process for people who are citizens there to gain benefits and or assistance. I have read over the years how many big corporations have been able to evade taxation as well.

What say you my brothers and sisters across the pond? Is it really that bad there?

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: Meee32
a reply to: Korg Trinity

No in your playground a bully punches or pushes you and so you go round attacking everyone and anyone you can lay your hands on! Dont you see the difference? The thing is america has been going around attacking countries killing people for as long as I can remember! Look at the first gulf "war" you were attacked were you?

I watched a documentary called behind the lines... Where this chap went into iraq to talk to the average folk, he went to coffee houses etc and the people were friendly to him but eventually they would say... "10 years! Its been 10 years and you still bomb us! Why???"

You really have no place to talk because see, you guys ARE the bullies! And these people are fighting back against YOU! And you MUST agree they are doing the right thing as this is what you say you should do!

These people live an a crappy enough place as it is!

You can't just go round killing everyone to get to a few guys that did you wrong bro! It's just unreasonable! You would not stand for that in your neighbourhood would you? I bring back the mass murderer, would you advocate the gov dropping bombs on your neighbourhood to get to one? Well would you?

This has nothing to do with turning the other cheek, whatsoever...

You clearly have no understanding of what would happen if we just let the insurgence take root and build do you?

You appear to have zero understanding of what we are fighting for!

Would you like to be living under sharia law and bow down to your Muslim overlords?? Because if we do nothing at this point that is what will happen!

Korg.

No it wont.

If if ISIS take syria and Iraq so what?

They have no projection power, IE no navy or relevent air force! They couldnt stage a invadion of the Isle of wight let alone the UK

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Korg Trinity

originally posted by: Meee32
a reply to: Korg Trinity

No in your playground a bully punches or pushes you and so you go round attacking everyone and anyone you can lay your hands on! Dont you see the difference? The thing is america has been going around attacking countries killing people for as long as I can remember! Look at the first gulf "war" you were attacked were you?

I watched a documentary called behind the lines... Where this chap went into iraq to talk to the average folk, he went to coffee houses etc and the people were friendly to him but eventually they would say... "10 years! Its been 10 years and you still bomb us! Why???"

You really have no place to talk because see, you guys ARE the bullies! And these people are fighting back against YOU! And you MUST agree they are doing the right thing as this is what you say you should do!

These people live an a crappy enough place as it is!

You can't just go round killing everyone to get to a few guys that did you wrong bro! It's just unreasonable! You would not stand for that in your neighbourhood would you? I bring back the mass murderer, would you advocate the gov dropping bombs on your neighbourhood to get to one? Well would you?

This has nothing to do with turning the other cheek, whatsoever...

You clearly have no understanding of what would happen if we just let the insurgence take root and build do you?

You appear to have zero understanding of what we are fighting for!

Would you like to be living under sharia law and bow down to your Muslim overlords?? Because if we do nothing at this point that is what will happen!

Korg.

No it wont.

If if ISIS take syria and Iraq so what?

They have no projection power, IE no navy or relevent air force! They couldnt stage a invadion of the Isle of wight let alone the UK

Again you demonstrate a lack of knowledge on what is really going on on the world stage.

1. If ISIS or ISL took Syria and Iraq, we would have a training ground for terrorists. a Safe haven for the Muslim Extremist agenda.

2. Syria is important for the reason it is a pressure point for Russia. Russia is attempting to squeeze the Petro-dollar harder than it's ever done and the entire international community is more than well aware of the issues. It's a stand off point that we cannot loose. If we lost the ability to control Russian interests in Syria we would have no leverage to prevent Russia from screwing the rest of Europe's fuel lines.

3. No group of people Should be allowed to get away with mass murder of innocence for no other reason other than their religion. ISIS have beheaded and raped and pillaged and gathered hundreds of people into a hole in the ground and then shoot them. They have lined men up in front of their families and shot them in the head one by one.

4. The world has to learn that if you want to attack western interests with anything other than through open and free debate, it will cost you more than it's worth.

Korg.

originally posted by: crazyewok

No it wont.
If if ISIS take syria and Iraq so what?
They have no projection power, IE no navy or relevent air force! They couldnt stage a invadion of the Isle of wight let alone the UK

Who needs projection power??

When they have extremist suicide bombers,and can take control of planes

to fly into large occupied buildings, or plant explosives in 'civil' aircraft

(Lockiebie) Bombs on underground trains, at stations..... Decapitate

'innocent / civilian' charity worker prisoners they have taken....

With their army of extremists ... they don't need projection power...

a reply to: eletheia

So what's the 100's of billion we spend on our security services for?

Why do we need GCHQ, MI5 or the NSA ect for?

a reply to: crazyewok

It's no where near that amount, Ewok.. I wish it was, but sadly the NHS and the Welfare budget take up the lions share of Government spending.

And the security services are not perfect, they can only do so much. It is far better to deal with the problem abroad and early, than sit on our behinds and wait for it to come to us. It's all a bit Neville Chamberlain..

a reply to: crazyewok



Like he said ^^^^^^

originally posted by: stumason


It's no where near that amount, Ewok.. I wish it was,

Over the many years and coupled with what the USA spends (Remember the USA spends much more than we do and its a joint venture)


If anything I think we spend too much for over the top privacy invasions, which dont seem to work as we still have to go overseas and bomb people.....

originally posted by: stumason
but sadly the NHS and the Welfare budget take up the lions share of Government spending.

Really you would cut the NHS?

originally posted by: stumason
It's all a bit Neville Chamberlain..

Bad comparison as ISIS dont have a huge army and airforce that can sweep over western Europe and the UK like Hitler.

If you and Korg like war so much how about you volunteer for the front?

The problem isn't people on benefits, the problems are:

Multi-national corporations not paying near enough tax.
Foreign Aid.
Peoples wages, the minimum wage and pretty much anything under £10 is nothing but a wage to able a basic existence.
Peoples retirement age.
Jobs like customer care for British Gas, Virgin and other massive UK corporations been staffed abroad.
Politicians wages in relation to the general public.
Subsiding companies that already make enough profit.
Selling off state owned businesses.


The list could go on forever. In my opinion stopping benefits is not a solution, it would only be a major factor in making the gap between poor and rich even greater.

George Osborn is a heartless wanker.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Over the many years and coupled with what the USA spends (Remember the USA spends much more than we do and its a joint venture)

True, I suppose, but then that applies to everything else - to put it into perspective, over ten years the Welfare bill tops a Trillion pounds, so it's all swings and roundabouts.

originally posted by: crazyewok
If anything I think we spend too much for over the top privacy invasions, which dont seem to work as we still have to go overseas and bomb people.....

It's a trade off - you could say to GCHQ and 5 "No, you cannot wire tap, read e-mails or anything" and then they would be so hampered they'd be pointless and the plethora of plots they have foiled over the years would be a regular occurrence on the streets. What would you prefer, your privacy being "invaded" (has it, though??) or people being blown up far more frequently?

originally posted by: crazyewok
Really you would cut the NHS?

I didn't actually say that, did I? No, I'd spend more, but also get to grips with the waste and modernise the NHS.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Bad comparison as ISIS dont have a huge army and airforce that can sweep over western Europe and the UK like Hitler.

Not yet, but neither did Germany until the late 30's. If IS is left to it's own devices, it will eventually develop the capability to spread further, as the Iraqi's and Syrians are totally incapable of stopping them. Even now, with the air strikes, IS is still advancing on Baghdad and right now are less than 2 miles from the City limits.

originally posted by: crazyewok
If you and Korg like war so much how about you volunteer for the front?

It's not a matter of "liking War" - such a juvenile response, if you ask me - but facing the reality that we don't live in some Utopian world where we can all sit around a camp fire singing Koombaya.

And for the record, I did apply to join the Army as a youngster, but injury forced me out of the running. I am considering joining the reserves, however and would happily go to Iraq to fight these bastards, but our leaders lack the balls to commit troops.

originally posted by: stumason


Not yet, but neither did Germany until the late 30's. If IS is left to it's own devices, it will eventually develop the capability to spread further, as the Iraqi's and Syrians are totally incapable of stopping them. Even now, with the air strikes, IS is still advancing on Baghdad and right now are less than 2 miles from the City limits.

Im about fly so I have not go a lot of time but il address this one point:

Things have changes since the 1930's


ISIS if left to there own devices could NEVER hope to catch up to the west in military tec.

I mean really? They dont have the facilities or R&D capability, I mean really! They have banned the teaching of science and maths in schools!

Can you really think they well be able to build 4.5 gen let alone 5th gen fighters?


Hell by the time they build there first 5th gen fighter we will be on our 7th Gen F-20035 fighter aircraft Thats if they can even get the skills to even create a WW1 Bi plane

a reply to: crazyewok

I'm not talking about them conjuring up fancy aircraft or what have you, but the simple fact of them taking a huge swathe of territory, the manpower and status that comes with that etc. Left to dwell, it would be the world largest "failed state", with millions upon millions of people under their thrall, destabilising the whole region, threatening global security and sending out infiltrators....

You do seem to be somewhat naive to methods of warfare. IS know they cannot match the west on technology or air power, but there is something called asymmetric warfare which they would be very good at and it is something that a conventional military would find it hard to combat against. In the same manner in which they took Iraq and Syria, they could easily apply that to the neighbouring states and take them over.

Your proposal to just leave them to it is not an option - well, it is, but it will only be a bigger problem we will have to deal with later. Imagine if they managed to take not only Iraq and Syria, but Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt or god forbid, Saudi? If they took Saudi, with Mecca at it's heart, they truly would be the Islamic State and with those countries comes a hell of a lot of infrastructure as well as plenty of Western toys. Not to mention Israel's reaction which would probably be severe, only fanning the whole Islamic world into a frenzy and likely into the arms of IS.

I appreciate you're not a military man, or even much of a strategist, but even you must be able to appreciate the threat the pose if left unchecked?

EDIT: To add, you make quips about them not even being able to build a WW1 plane (they most certainly can) but they are not morons. They are clued up with strategic thinking, are tactically astute and if they take whole countries, you can bet there are people with the technical know how in those countries who would be sympathetic to their cause, or at least be coerced into working for them.

People used to make jokes about Iran - 20 years ago they had no indigenous military capability, nowadays they are catching up. The same could apply for any "Islamic State" left to gather strength.

a reply to: stumason

All i know is is countrys like Ice and and Norway that dont go round kicking beehives in the ME are not constantly under wide spread fear of terrorism.


Im more worried about our own goverment who announced today that they basicaly want to do away with any speach they dont agree with, with there very very broad and ant extremism laws that could see any anti goverment speach banned.


Im more worried about our goverment useing the vague fear of terrorism to restrict freedoms like hitler after the reichstag fire than the odd random terrorist bombing thats less likely to kill me than getting hit by a car.

originally posted by: crazyewok
All i know is is countrys like Ice and and Norway that dont go round kicking beehives in the ME are not constantly under wide spread fear of terrorism.

Norway sent troops into Afghanistan and Iraq! And yes, Norway is facing the threat of Islamic extremism....

As for Iceland - they don't have a military! But they are a member of NATO, which guarantees their security, which is the only reason they don't have an Army.

Bad examples, Ewok and it betrays you're rather simplistic world view.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Im more worried about our own goverment who announced today that they basicaly want to do away with any speach they dont agree with, with there very very broad and ant extremism laws that could see any anti goverment speach banned.

No, they didn't. That's the way some quarters are spinning it, but people were saying this about any and all of the legislation brought in by the last Government but it never actually happened and we actually saw this Government do away with some of the more draconian powers the Labour Government brought it.

originally posted by: crazyewok
Im more worried about our goverment useing the vague fear of terrorism to restrict freedoms like hitler after the reichstag fire than the odd random terrorist bombing thats less likely to kill me than getting hit by a car.

Oh please - now whose getting all melodramatic? On the one hand, you dismiss the actual threat posed by the likes of IS as "vague" and Government propaganda, then go off on one about how our Government is verging on Hitleresque Law's to silence us all and keep us under the jackboot. I really think you should take a good, long look at yourself in the mirror...

a reply to: stumason

Should have guessed you would defend the BS the home secretary spewed today.

Sorry but under here broad deffinition of "extremism" anything could be included.

# the consevatives and # labour.

But hey thats probably extremist talk


Sorry but im not going to live my life in fear on a 1 in a 100,000 chance of dieing in a terrorist attack, and certainly not willing to hand over a millimeter of freedoms to the goverment.



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