Black Triangle UFOs and an Alleged Breakaway Civilization- Discuss

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
a reply to: Jukiodone

Then after reading up on superfluid helium the past few days it hit me, I think I read about the idea of Mach shield in the Fark posting yuppa put on here! So in my attempt to make things work out I am the one who supposed that rotating superfluid helium around your craft would exhibit some srange effects.

I thought that was probably the source.

It's interesting how there are a few common elements in the BBT mythos that do seem to cross over and the differences could easily be explained via subjective interpretation of very exotic technologies where the source isn't privy to the full info...

Obviously on their own, the various ideas seem a bit outlandish but when you consider that the anomalous readings from the EM drive might be due to a similar set of effects derived from information horizon modification- there is an investigative correlation.

@ BP; I wont pretend to understand what you wrote in your epic post but maybe have a look through the above (link and rest of website) and see if you see any cross overs as it is all information horizons, ZPF gradients, resonant cavities, Casimir effects and the like.
Oh... and he also uses triangles as his preferred shape to explain lol.

a reply to: Jukiodone

Interesting link. The whole concept of using pressur gradients reminbs me of the work thats been presented by others based on sakharovs ideas on zpf and gravity inertia etc.

But the idea of squirting the test mass one direction or the other is similar. But inversed pressure wise. Hes talking about the energy density being higher inside than outside the vehicle causing it to be pulled in the less dense side of the gradient effect of the vehicle.

In my option B (bassplyrs heisenberg-planck drive aka the sqeeezer) Im saying it uses asymetrical resisance to the outside pressure pushing in on its less dense interior of cavity so that it squirts it one direction or the other. The plasma cavity can be asymetrical in field strength resulting in motion due to the created pressure gradient. Pushes the vehicle up to close the speed of light but no further. Less energy density less mass and inertia but not totally eliminated.

Option A "mach sheild" also uses a gradient but differently. It makes inside of plasma cavity "transparent" to the vacuum by matching impedance (not by isolating test mass from universe. ) of the test mass to that of the virtual EM field by changing the vectors so the index of refraction is lowered. When coupled with the field resonating in accord with the vacuums virtual EM waveform you can also shorten the process of spontaneous photon emission. The shorter the process the faster light can " conduct" through the vacuum and the faster the value for C becomes. Up to possibly Instantaneous which means waaay, waaay faster than "light speed" to almost the equivalent of teleported (although its still travelling linearly just really really fast) since impedance is matched inertal mass is eliminated too. And gravity since it never has a chance to manifest anyway. Impart motion by making the field asymetrical so that its not as "transparent" on one end as the other thus establishing a gradient and a throttle control of sorts (so you know you dont warp drive into the side of a planet five light years away on accident) also, this method is more dangerous then option B. What if you hit a patch of denser vacuum somehow and the computer thats controlling the gauge of the vectors matching impedance isnt sensitive or fast enough to keeping up with the proper changes necessary to match the new inpedance in that "rough spot" ....kablooey and a massive flash of cherenkov radiation when everything drops suddenly below sublight . so....option B is favored for everyday usage. Like say cruising around earth or the solar system. Get out of systen where theres less clutter and then engage option A for interstellar travel.

If none of the above makes any sense its because i typed all this out at 4am.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Hmmm ... as far as that making any sense, I recognize the words and their meanings, but it's the particular order of said words that confuse! I am, alas, just an English major who likes science and science fiction, so my opinion is moot... except "denser vacuum" ... those two words stuck together left me audibly saying "Huh?"

I guess if there is lumineferous (sp?) aether (or an unknown matrix on which light travels through 3d space) then sure, there could be a "denser vacuum" but then it wouldn't really be a vacuum, or void, as we think of it... anyway, enjoying the tech speculation even with imperfect understanding, and glad your blatant plea for little stars was answered, sir!

This damned (in a Fortean sense) narrative (not a mythos for me, yet) still has me by the short hairs... I'm watching to see how the latest "disclosures" match up with A's... also saw a recent thread where Labtech dug up an old WWII account of a squad in Eastern Europe who took shelter in a cave and encountered a black, glass-like portion of a large wall embedded in the rock and wondered ... and wondered some more. Lot's o wondering...

a reply to: BASSPLYR

Some very interesting thoughts you have there, Mr. Bassplayer, would you like to to take a ride in our fancy new black suburban?

I wonder if a pseudo Casimir force amplifier could run a generator of some kind, if they existed of course...

a reply to: framedragged

Like if you ran the setup/rig in reverse using a "light" soliton laser and amplifying the EM virtual waveform & compton /debroglie mutually resonant frequency instead of amplifying the phase noise?

Try and tickle the medium inside that plasma cavity to get those clouds of virtual leptons surrounding an electron to get enough juice to surface above the zero point and manifest. Like out to the radius of the corresponding Compton wavelength of said charged electron.

That would produce a lot of leptons and energy. What you do with it is up to you.

Wonder if you could control which mode the virtual particles would manifest in - or + . and if you could control that wonder if you could do the same trick to a hydrogen atom and create or convert it into positronium.

So take plasma use it as both a resonant EM chamber to excite the virtual leptons into manifesting and as a non linear medium for the phase conjugate beam. Super cool the nlm to retard the probe beam (you know so you dont do it to your self) and point it at desired target so the signal beam......

well anyway, im sure you could just skip steb b with the super cooled nlm and just throttle back how much virtual leptons you manifest. Make it so its mixed bag of + & - and let them two do their courting right then and there in the cavity.

From there simply line the walls with some of that 100%+ efficient nano sized quantum solar cells klimov is developing over at los alamos to catch the spectical that is the climax of the twins fatal courtship. Make it all in a rig small enough to fit in a shoe box and use it to power your local city.

From there slap a waveguide on top of chamber to siphon off some of that EM at the proper frequencies to couple with the virtual EM waveform of the vacuum and pump it outside the test mass and introduce it into that plasma cavity i talked about a few posts up where a dark soliton can do its work doing the optical squeezing and parametric filtering/amplification stuff. Bing bang boom you got a twofer with the reactor producing the power and a main componant for the propulsion.

a reply to: Baddogma

The special class on Einstein's cosmological constant will began at 1 PM (EST). Please bring a No. 2 pencil and some paper. Then you will learn that if a constant is not constant then you can end up with denser vacuum while you are traipsing across this universe. For the Machian universe rotates and all particles interact with all other particles (like observed at the quantum level). So my idea is to quantum lock that interaction by whirling around one's vehicle of choice something that does interact with the quantum world--liquid helium. But it seems I took from here and there and made my own version up so I guess we can call it TEOT's woo-woo Theory 1. It does make some theoretical sense (to me). And also explains some things (like hearing a variable speed rotor--like a really big electric fan) going over the apartment at 3 am one day. If you have the quantum lock thing going on you could rip the roof off and so much for being stealthy. So like a big helium airship you use old fashion tech until out of effecting the ground. Which is my belief on what I saw never came any lower.

See you in class!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Thanks, teach ... I actually sorta grokked that, though I'm admittedly rusty on how low temp materials can lock into this supposed rotation ... though the concept is certainly interesting, even to the technically retarded!

Though how can one know if their universe is rotating, whether Machian, Manachian or Manchurian universes, without an observer on the outside of said universe? Which leads to much convoluted pseudo-philosophy better pontificated about on a living room couch while grasping a bong...

which leads back to why the heck the frustrating PTB (allegedly) won't disseminate the portions of this (alleged) tech that won't unzip time-space and would, instead, enable us poor Terran humans to live a longer, funner little existence and spread out from this volatile planet "Egg Basket."

Sigh...

a reply to: Baddogma

Yeah, longer life and invisibility. How many fairy tales, folk stories, legends, and myths about those two topics?

Found an interesting read at this site called Deus Nexus. I do not know much about the site or any agenda they tend to follow. Linky: Black Triangle The Cornerstone of USA Star Fleet?. The article is a couple years old (even has a CGI of a BBT on the tarmac--first time I saw that photo I almost got excited!) but it is a good read. Mostly argues that BBTs are human made craft flown by humans as part of secret space fleet. No 'breakaway society' at all. Even "He who shall not be named" said he was tired of good people taking their secrets to the grave which to me read as contrary to the 400 year life spans quip (I think that only applied to RKers born off world anyway).

The part that got me were the comments after the "follow up" post. The very last one. I don't think we can re-post from other sites so I will just say give the article a read and read the last response. Several over laps with some of the posts here on this thread. Made me go... hum?

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Hmmm indeed ...

but the "helium filled" part of that post would seem too old school, as in balloon, unless it was the super cooled (and cool) trans universe quantum locking helium you mentioned...

back to wondering.

What if there was version of Aerogel made with
helium rather than air ?
it would be a weird combination of strength
and lightness. Perhaps able to remain straight
over long distances ?

You know bringing up einsteins cosmological constant brings up some thoughts i have in regards to Einstein- Hopf drag while reading some of Milonni's work.

If you could perturb the ZPF and alter permeability and permitivity of EM. As you approach absolute zero in a superconducting toroidal EM field thats been specifically formulated to have nonabelian guage symmetry in the SU(2) sorta way you would reduce inertial mass and gravity, change the value of C. Thats great n all but heres the part that just hit me thats the intent of this post.

As a result, there would be no drag on the accellerating dipole to counteract the force of the photon emission and absorption going on and that would push like a guns recoil against said dipole. In addition to (i believe) the emission and absorption of the photon on the dipole being on the same guage vector it would produce kinetic energy and help push the dipole through space. Another twofer!

So in addition to the propulsion being produce by a gradient of vacuum pressure on the test mass it would be augmented by its own nonabelian field its using as the mechanism to achieve the gradient in the first place! Its so simple i cant believe i didnt recognize that before. What an elegant machine man has made with these triangles.

Furthermore, if you got the process going via superconductor so the entire test mass inside that field will behave as one giant singular electron or something making it easier to alter the guage vector and symmetry than if you had to control the trillions and trillions of induvidual atoms making up the test mass. Also for reasons i wont get into the superconductor will have a lot more play interacting with the virtual field/particles increasing your bang per buck.

So light to be quantum optically squeezed and resonant to the zpf to perturb the vacuums density and alter EM permitivity and permeability which reduces or eliminates inertia and gravity. Using EM fields ttoalter metrics of spontaneous (or should it be considered stimulated?) photon emission mechanisim speeding up the photons "conductance" in the zpf to achieve superluminal speeds. Lights recoil on the dipole during photon emission and absorption adding to the thrust. Phase conjugate soliton lasers to create EM resonant plasma cavities.

....didnt somebody say in regards to the triangles propulsion mechanism its achieved "now with light!"

Go back to 1910 and the speculation about einstien-hopf drag.

Scheme and extrapolate the concepts until its engineerable and testable(maybe mid 40s) find out that youre not only reducing inertial drag your also changing the value of "c" which although immensly useful also really dangerous under certain circumstances (ie fatal) uh oh back to the drawing board.

Go ahead anyways and build a rudimentary fisc shaped vehicle using dangerous method (prior mentioned option A) to actually test as a propulsion system. (Late 40s to mid 50's) start off simple with a disc housing a superconducting Toroid. Do all the stuff i mentioned in the prior posts.

Meanwhile explore other mechanisims to perturb vacuum to make vehicle concepts safer than crew killing option A. By coming up with option B type rigs.

Find out a spinning superconductor will make your vehicle annoyingly spin like a top and be hard to control. Try different superconductor configuarations. Eventually in mid 60s to 70s its "Out with the discs! In with the triangles! "(for reason i mentioned earlier in this thread about three spinning superconductors will interlock fields eliminating the tendency to make vehicle spin)

Work on the designs to be more reliable, safer, more economical to produce. 70s through current.

And here we are...seeing triangles flying around using zpf vacuum pressure gradients and light to move around.

Still the EM fields and other techniques used to perturb the zpf will be screwed with and wrecked if in contact with a outside powerful EM field of a frequency that will disrupt effects causing vehicle to crash, explode etc... Things like powerful radar sysyems etc..So great for space ship. Bad as a weapon in contested airspace.

Next post bass ponders if one could make a brownian motion thermal zpf rectifyer doodad and make energy from the vacuum that way. Or maybe a way to squeeze zpf energy out of electrons by forcing a plasma bubble carrying such and such number of electrons physically into a space too small. Like some sorta vacuum spacial contraction on the electron to produce even more energy!

a reply to: BASSPLYR

BASS come up for air man! You do not have to swim across the pool down at the bottom! You can do what I do and leisurely float on your back and occasionally kick your feet with your mouth open!

And yes, "with light" was said! Seems we made some headway in "arm chair" engineering a BBT. I wonder if there should be a forum, Imagineering (or some such). I would really love to make some cuprates with that graphene press! Or start making thin film magnets with it! Teslaphorises looks like it could be fun to play around with too! Why is nobody out there sprinkling Buckyballs on high-tension wire bundles? Maybe TEOT is wandering in the fields missing the crop circle because he's following a cricket but man, how else do dumb ideas become genius?

After refueling, keep 'em coming! I am enjoying getting lost in the words!

Man I gotta say I love stumbling upon these forums. Before I never knew a thing like this existed, people just expressing their opinions in a civilized way, sharing information and knowledge about all that that is unique in this world. Love it. Oh and why I reply -

Yes I want to believe, my mind just races of thinging of all the beautiful possibilities and things most people say are fake.
Nice.

originally posted by: TEOTWAWKIAIFF
a reply to: BASSPLYR

And yes, "with light" was said! Seems we made some headway in "arm chair" engineering a BBT. I wonder if there should be a forum, Imagineering (or some such).

Start a thread in Aviation/Science and Technology and see what happens?
Make it clear that the purpose is to discuss technological advancements that make the ideas discussed ITT less crack pot.

Would be a hoot, if only to see who doesn't post.

a reply to: Jukiodone

Some crackpot ideas became solid science later on. So dismissing them is not wise all the time.

You know often times with that crowd if you get a dead phone from them regarding a topic or post you made its because they arent comfortable discussing that topic. For whatever reason.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I was thinking about joining Thread Killers Anonymous using one of Zaph's thread as evidence!

Since joining I haven't lurked or even read much over there (not like I used to! Man I nearly read every thread). Now it is one off questions that get answered and that is that.
=======

I was reading up on graphene and electron movement on the surface over on Space Dailey: Graphene: A quantum of current. So they were constricting electron flow through a narrow channel and noticed that there is a quantum effect happening. The electric current was translated to a quantum effect happening all over the surface of grapheme. They soon realized that the hexagonal edges played an important role. Then they explained how they measured the effect and explained how they made their sample. It is sandwiched between "white graphene" (boron nitride, thus creating a van der Waals heterostructure) that was cooled with liquid helium!

This how the article end -

The discovery of graphene opened the door to a new research area: ultrathin materials which only consist of very few atomic layers are attracting a lot of attention. Especially the combination of graphene and other materials - such as boron nitride, as in this case - is expected to yield interesting results. "One thing is for sure: whoever wants to understand tomorrow's electronics has to know a lot about quantum physics", says Florian Libisch.

So say we all! A machine built using nanoscale materials utilizing quantum effects. Yup, no wonder it has taken so long to get this discussion going!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

There are many types of black triangles- manned, unmanned, supply, experimentation, and escape pods of a diamond shaped nature. Mr Pope had one briefly on his wall.

How do they go so fast? they simply create a vacuum corridor upon which to fly down. There is no air resistence at all, and like a bar of soap through water, slip away, silently whilst turning on their active camo to bend light. Fast and opaque.

Yeah its difficult to keep people intetested in the nitty gritty of the phenomena when its all hard to wrap your head around physics. In my opinion QED and Guage Physics coupled with things like signals mixing and stuff.

But im glad some of us die hards are actually taking the time to flesh out whats happening with these triangles.

We may not all agree at the mechanics behind the propulsion but were all brothers on the same journey sharing a common goal and sense of wonder and thats whats important.

I think its great we present ideas and manage not to bicker over everything like you sometimes see in regards to this topic.

So yay for us ats folk. Outside the politics forum it looks like were all pretty civil.

a reply to: yuppa

Yeah but how much atmispheric pressure would the collapsing air corridor put on the craft to impel motion? 14 psi at best. I know over a large surface area that adds up and given reduced drag but enough to push anything fast? The higher up it travels the less air to collapse and push it.