Kristallnacht : A warning from history

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Snarl

Which is pretty much the OP's point.

Amongst others. LOL

There's a problem with anything taken to an extreme. Diversity ... carried to extremes ... is proving to be one of those.

Hence, I have no ideological issues with the establishment of an Islamic Caliphate. But, if it is allowed, I expect all Muslims to respect that for what it is ... ... and go and practice their religion within its borders. I don't care to be exposed to or touched by their religion. I have already had that experience, and I am done with it. That does, and does not, make me religiously intolerant. For some strange reason though, I'm not very much bothered by Christians or Jews, even though I do not subscribe to the tenets of their religions.

Anyway ... this has been a great thread so far. I can't complain at all about the honesty being expressed.

originally posted by: Metallicus

Also, Westboro is less than .0000001% of Christians and they still haven't killed anyone to my knowledge.

And what is the % of 15.000 - 20.000 ISIS idiots out of 1.6 billion Muslims ?
Please spare me the hogwash about "surveys" some memembers of ATS community like to post that show how 10 - 50 - 100 - 300 million Muslims are radicals who just want to kill us, convert and impose shariah law. Imagine if only a million Muslims were as radical as ISIS idiots you would see beheadings and bombs popping off every day across Europe and USA.
I'm not stupid, i can see the problem with radical elements in Muslim community, but let's keep it real and focus on those who are the problem and not slander every member of the Islamic faith because of actions of the few.
AS you can see in my thread www.abovetopsecret.com... , 120 Muslim scholars form around the world wrote a letter in which they denounce ISIS as un-Islamic.

Some interesting points in the letter:

-Jihad in Islam is defensive war. It is not permissible without the right cause, the right purpose and without the right rules of conduct.

-It is forbidden in Islam to harm or mistreat—in any way—Christians or any ‘People of the Scripture’.

-It is forbidden in Islam to force people to convert.

-It is forbidden in Islam to torture people.

-It is forbidden in Islam to attribute evil acts to God.

-It is forbidden in Islam to declare a caliphate without consensus from all Muslims.

-It is forbidden in Islam to kill the innocent.

Muslim countries are bombing ISIS together with USA as we speak. But, no matter what Muslims do these days they will still be stereotyped and SOME of us Europeans have done that once before, exactly 70 years ago.


Great thread OP.

a reply to: Snarl

Ya because cars kill people as well as guns. No...religion doesnt harm people. Fanatics within religion as well as outside of it do. Whether under the guise of it or not.

You made a good point though because it seems this goes along with the thread. Lumping together everything and throwing a blame label on it is always easier than using common sense.

It's not only Muslims. It's also Mexicans and immigrants south of the border in general.

CEO of a random corporate makes $20.000,00/hr. (See www.aflcio.org...). No one bats an eye. But people line up to throw stones at buses with immigrants from South America and basically blame the demise of the US on some Joses.

a reply to: LoverBoy

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

People might want to take a look at that and understand the emphasis placed.

Then they may want to look at this:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

... and stop believing that the practice of religion is protected by the Constitution. It's protected by opinion ... and it is protected from Congress. Nowhere is it protected from any state ... or the people ... unless it is.

a reply to: Snarl
I guess that would be good and all.....if it had anything to do with what I stated. Nowhere did I talk about protection or even bring Congress or the government up. Stick with what I posted, not what I didn't.

a reply to: neformore

Nice thread. I was going to post a similar one, but i thought it fruitless due to some of the bigotry displayed here.

In any instance, i thought i'd post this picture...it speaks for itself.

a reply to: neformore

Considering the Jew's of 1920's Europe did nothing more than live peacefully, I have to disagree. There is a huge difference between the Jew's of that era and the Muslims now. Trying to drum up sympathy for Muslims by comparing them to a people targeted by a government bent on having a Juden frei society makes me quite frankly sick.

Many on ATS will agree there are plenty of peaceful Muslims trying to do nothing more than live out their life. But the fact (no matter how politically incorrect it is), is that there is a growing number of Muslims in Europe who want nothing more than to control the government and it's people.

Crime rates do not lie, look at Norway. Crime has risen for each year after the 90's when massive immigration became more prevalent. In some places in Norway (mostly within Oslo), police don't even tread thanks to Muslim gangs. In fact, the two biggest gangs in Norway are mostly compromised of non-Western immigrants (Muslims).

Answer me this: When was the last time a Jew in pre-Nazi Germany rape German girls because they were "no better than dogs"?

When was the last time a Jew in pre-Nazi Germany had gangs that actively patrolled the streets beating up ethnic Germans for being German?

Therein lies the difference. You're comparing apples to bricks.

We'd no interest in helping Syria, until ISIL ventured into Iraq and threatened our oil. Suddenly everyone knew their name and the press were using inflammatory language, 'evil' was a favorite. It is a mistaken belief, imho that a group must be demonized in order to whip the populace into a frenzy so that we will demand blood. Why not let the actions of that group tell it's own story?

We have long painted entire nations of people with the actions of a few. We keep doing the same things over and over and then wondering why moderates grow to hate us, producing extremists and the pattern repeats.

a reply to: neformore

I do not agree. This is a very poor comparison considering Jews were not killing, raping, beheading, and shooting other people just because their prophet muhammod told them too; And a 600 winged angel told that prophet how to do the killing.

Now mind you a select number of Jews have raped the world via banks/hollywood/news corps, etc, but the Jews especially never did anything worthy of their treatment in 1910-40 Germany.

Muslims however, never cease to give someone a reason to bomb them. Even Noble peace prise winning Obama wants to bomb them. Bottom line, any religion that kills other religions just because they don't adhere to their beliefs is of the devil. These include Islam, Judaism, Catholics, Mormons, Hindus, Calvinists, and all other religions that kill people because they do not conform.

a reply to: Auricom

I basically just posted what you did above ↑↑↑ Glad you beat me to it.

a reply to: daaskapital

Because their very book, called the Koran, tells them to do just what ISIS is currently doing. Don't take my word for it, read the blame book! I have read the Koran twice, and looked through it countless times. It CLEARLY teaches "death to the infidels" in so many words.

a reply to: KJVBible

Your book also espouses violence and death. So is it fair if i called you a radical Christian terrorist, basing my assertions on the KKK and other Christian terrorists? No, of course not.

a reply to: daaskapital

Nah, I wouldn't do that at all. But once again, I tell you, their Koran TELLS them to kill others. ITS THERE, I can post the MANY Suras which state just that!

As for the Bible saying we should kill our enemies, I leave you with the words of the Bible, from God Himself:
Luke 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

There was plenty of killing in the Bible, and God told those who killed to do it. But God never told me to kill anyone. He told some Jews to kill people that were on their land (trespasser, aka Palestinians) because they would not leave. I would do the same to someone living in my house today if I caught him there without my permission.

But I am not a Jew, I am a Christian, we don't kill, unless killed.

Please, continue. I am not trying to be mean, just trying to be informative.

a reply to: KJVBible

Bible quotes about killing.

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)


Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)


And many many more verses about killing people, and the (insane) rationale behind it. I think those who believe the Koran full of commands to kill unbelievers would do well to read the Christian Bible.

originally posted by: KJVBible
a reply to: daaskapital

Nah, I wouldn't do that at all.

Of course. I never said you would. I was implying that in general, it isn't fair for people to label a whole demographic as something, basing their allegations on a couple of extremists.

But once again, I tell you, their Koran TELLS them to kill others. ITS THERE, I can post the MANY Suras which state just that!

Indeed it does. The same can be said for your book and the Jewish one too. That said, the Quran was written over a period of many years, and some tend to misinterpret parts of it.

I think most Abrahamic religious folk would agree that a lot of the extreme statements from all of the books are outdated and applied to the times in which they were written.

As for the Bible saying we should kill our enemies, I leave you with the words of the Bible, from God Himself:
Luke 6:27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

Here are quotes from the Quran which speak justice and forgiveness:

“O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah as witnesses to fair dealings and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just, that is next to piety. Fear Allah, indeed Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do.”(5:8)

And those who, when tyranny strikes them, they defend themselves, And the recompense of evil is punishment like it, but whoever forgives and amends, he shall have his reward from Allah; surely He does not love the unjust. And whoever avenges himself after having been wronged - those have not upon them any cause [for blame]. The way (of blame) is only against those who oppress mankind, and wrongfully rebel in the earth. For such there is a painful doom. (42:39-42)

There was plenty of killing in the Bible, and God told those who killed to do it. But God never told me to kill anyone. He told some Jews to kill people that were on their land (trespasser, aka Palestinians) because they would not leave. I would do the same to someone living in my house today if I caught him there without my permission.

And many violent quotes in the Quran were produced in reflection of the world in which Muhammad lived.

But I am not a Jew, I am a Christian, we don't kill, unless killed.

Please, continue. I am not trying to be mean, just trying to be informative.

Overall, i think it pointless in debating violent excerpts from ancient texts which reflected the periods of which they were written. All Abrahamic books contain violence and death, and they all contain aspects of peace and love.

Thank you for the reply.

a reply to: KJVBible

a reply to: Auricom

Thank you for proving the point made in my OP.

Youa re trotting out the fear and paranoia lines right there

This gem

Muslims however, never cease to give someone a reason to bomb them.

reminds me of this

“ Unless we expel the Jewish people. Unless we expel the Jewish people soon, they will have judaized our people within a very short time.” ~ Adolf Hitler - Nuremberg, January 13, 1923

Good OP with a waring about how people are so easily propagandized.

There`s one thing which proves that the majority of people are just as gullible as back in 20s and 30s in Germany, and that`s lots of people fell for the Putin demonization with ease (lots are still in that ball park).

With lots of people reacting out of the emotions hate and fear, the rationality of a few will probably stay fruitful.

Humanity is still a long way off to becoming a society in which enough people are able to react rational enough to problems. Until then you never will see viable solutions to the problems this world is facing...

...ah well, it is what it is.

originally posted by: cuckooold
a reply to: KJVBible

Bible quotes about killing.

Death to Followers of Other Religions

Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Nonbelievers

They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)


Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.

1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)


And many many more verses about killing people, and the (insane) rationale behind it. I think those who believe the Koran full of commands to kill unbelievers would do well to read the Christian Bible.

The way the word doomed is being used in the bible is in another context.

It means doomed to hell any modern Christian will have that belief due to how Christianity is currently being taught.

a reply to: TechniXcality

No obviously not all Muslims are terrorists but unfortunately because of their ideology all Muslims are potential terrorists.

That has to be one of the most ignorant comments I have ever read. Almost borders on twisted nazi - gestapo ideology. Can you please define their ideology that would make one come to the conclusion that ALL Muslims are potential terrorist?

It is worth noting that the largest Muslim populations are not Arab and the largest, Indonesia, is fairly peaceful. So it is not about religious ideology at all...