Chemtrails V.S. Contrails

originally posted by: Gh0stwalker

There is nothing to debate in my mind. The lines have been drawn. Either you believe there is a global plot to suppress, subjugate and cull humanity or you

understand a little about contrails and atmospheric physics. There's no mystery to be solved here. What we're seeing above our heads is well understood.

a reply to: Gh0stwalker

(b) This order shall be implemented consistent with U.S. obligations under international agreements and applicable U.S. law, and be subject to the availability of appropriations.

From your link.

After reading it, it appears to pave the way for funding and new research. But that sentence I quoted for you has us still bound to the UN moratorium on geo-engineering. Unless that has changed. Geo-engineering will probably happen (SRM or other methods that are still just being planned) But none of it will be chemtrails. And those lines in the sky you see, the one's that look just like contrails have looked since they started to exist back in the early 1900's, well, until someone flys up there and takes a sample, I am afraid most folks who aren't afraid of their own shadow will continue to assume they are contrails.

I am sorry you cannot open your mind to the possibility that there isn't yet a horrible plot to kill everyone that has been going on since the early 1990's yet the population continues to increase. The Temperature continues to rise. Nobody is reporting entire cities with horrible illness. Face it, the chemtrail fantasy is just that.

originally posted by: Gh0stwalker

The only surefire way to prove their existence would be to investigate the aircrafts and contrails in question. A daunting task no scientist of influence would likely endure...

As mentioned above, contrails have been studied.

...Not to mention the fact that any aircraft that had the capability of producing chemtrails would most certainly be of military design, which would make an outsider investigation nearly impossible.

If it is nearly impossible to investigate, then how are you so sure that those white trails are chemtrails?

originally posted by: Gh0stwalker
Not to mention the fact that any aircraft that had the capability of producing chemtrails would most certainly be of military design, which would make an outsider investigation nearly impossible.

Well that part alone is clearly complete nonsense. Persistent contrails of the kind that get labelled "chemtrails" - the ones that spread and stay in the sky for hours - are proven to come from perfectly normal commercial airliners that you see overhead every single day, when the conditions are right.

Anybody with a copy of FlightRadar24 etc can see that for themselves,by identifying the planes leaving the trails.

Here in London, the very thickest, most persistent trails I see are often left by the Boeing 787 Dreamliners, flying from Europe to the Caribbean. I've seen them leave huge trails from horizon to horizon that slowly spread out into a thick band of cloud. Here's an example I posted a few weeks ago.

But any passenger jet at the right altitude and in the right conditions can leave a trail that lasts for hours.


One question though - what do you mean by the contrails "descending"? I've heard this claim before but never seen any visual evidence. Do you mean that the trails got closer to the horizon, i.e. lower in the sky? If so, they are simply drifting further away, surely!

a reply to: Gh0stwalker

I find it quite ironic how so many skeptics and debunkers inhabit the top conspiracy discussion website...

err ok , but first - one question :

is any conspiracy theory wrong ?

originally posted by: Gh0stwalker
I find it quite ironic how so many skeptics and debunkers inhabit the top conspiracy discussion website...

I don't.

I've always been interested in conspiracy theories. And anyone who is really interested in them, and has a skeptical, reasoning mind, naturally starts researching and finding out facts, which in most cases is more mundane than the theory.

It's not about being a "debunker", it's about being interested in the truth. I don't know about you, but I find truth far more interesting than fantasy.

a reply to: Rob48

Well, according to the Oxford dictionary:

bunk
Pronunciation: /bʌŋk /
NOUN

[MASS NOUN] informal
Nonsense:
anyone with a brain cell would never believe such bunk

Origin:
early 20th century: abbreviation of bunkum.

The people on here who are always decrying the presence of debunkers on the site are clearly twats that want to get away with peddling nonsense unchallenged.

Yes. Each and every one. Why else would it be a problem?

Nice language up there brah

Anyone ever see one of these supposed chemtrails leave a dark line in the sky for at lease two days

Or watched a plane leave a trail exactly along one of these dark lines?

Is it possible for a legitimate contrail to leave a shadow of where it once once days before?

I stopped caring, but am forced to second guess myself because these "contrails" are getting out of control, something strange is happening above my town, it is becoming obvious.

No pics, yet no reason to lie, I only have an IPad#1 and a cheapy phone.

a reply to: GoShredAK

Aircraft often fly common routes - so another a/c on the same route a few days later is not something unexpected - and if it leaves a shadow where another a/c left a contrail a few days previously then that is probably unusual - but certainly not impossible.

originally posted by: Gh0stwalker
I find it quite ironic how so many skeptics and debunkers inhabit the top conspiracy discussion website...

I find it ironic that someone who seems to agree with a bunch of people who aer always telling everyone else to "do your own research" is surprised that people who do do their own research come up with answers supported by actual research.....

Then tell me, is this guy pulling his information out of a hat?:

A Review of the "Case Orange" Report

He sure is - he actually spends little effort with Case Orange and most of the so-called review of the report is just repeating arrant nonsense about how Project Stormfury and "Owning the weather" therefore chemtrails......it's just normal chemtrail non-evidence.

What I saw looks identical to the second picture down on your link.

The plane we saw yesterday left a trail exactly upon that Line, no deviation whatsoever.

Thanks for showing me that! Thanks to you I'm back upon the fence.

Edit: previous statement retracted, the fourth pic is spot on! Thanks again,this is why I love me some ATS.

a reply to: GoShredAK

I've seen a plane apparently travelling along the path of a dark line and leaving a contrail behind it on a few occasions. Contrail shadows do look wierd. Unfortunately I've never seen it when ive had my camera with me (which I carry around a lot), so it clearly can't be chemtrails as it happens far too infrequently. I'm talking three occasions over the last three years.

It's not a mystery to me how it occurs, but I can easily understand how bizarre it looks to others who have never looked into such things. My own first reaction was WTF?

originally posted by: waynos
a reply to: GoShredAK

I've seen a plane apparently travelling along the path of a dark line and leaving a contrail behind it on a few occasions. Contrail shadows do look wierd. Unfortunately I've never seen it when ive had my camera with me (which I carry around a lot), so it clearly can't be chemtrails as it happens far too infrequently. I'm talking three occasions over the last three years.

It's not a mystery to me how it occurs, but I can easily understand how bizarre it looks to others who have never looked into such things. My own first reaction was WTF?

My literal reaction was to utter WTF multiple times that's for sure. I'm glad to hear these contrail shadows explained and to know others have witnessed the same thing. I would much rather these things are not "chemtrails" because obviously nothing good could come from that.

a reply to: GoShredAK

I saw one, and it was a few days after reading a thread here on them. It made me think there must have been a few of them before, but I wasn't paying attention. It was very cool to see.

a reply to: GoShredAK

My literal reaction was to utter WTF multiple times that's for sure. I'm glad to hear these contrail shadows explained and to know others have witnessed the same thing.

That is almost everyone's reaction when first seen, in fact the first one I ever saw had me saying the same thing but after a little fun on the net I came across this site that helps explain the reason they happen.

www.atoptics.co.uk...

The contrails can do a many interesting things.

For me the question is why, if these are just contrails, they should have changed so dramatically in recent years? I wrote a brief summary of my conclusions after considering the matter based on my own personal observations. I am lucky enough to live in a miltary flight zone so can immediately rule out civil airliners as a source. I also know the flight corridors of the commercial flight zone to the south. Here is a link to my summary:

www.dropbox.com...

I have a theory which may be pure fantasy. We all know about Project Aurora, the supposedly top secret high-performance aircraft being built in the black. What if Project Aurora is actually the chemtrail project, and all the leaks about aircraft are actually disinformation?

As for the reason for all this activity, I can understand why people look for sinister motives, but I think it probably is a too-late attempt to counter global warming. If they were trying to poison or mind-control us, why not just do it at night, when it would be invisible? The fact that the process starts early in the mornings suggests an attempt to maximise the sunlight-blocking effects of the trails. Why is it kept secret? Obviously they don't want to face millions of legal actions brought by people claiming to have been badly affected by breathing in the residue.

To me the most interesting aspect of all this is how a big majority of people don't seem able to simply use their own eyes and observe what is happening right over their heads. Maybe they just don't care, or perhaps they are so much influenced by what offialdom and tame "experts" say that they are no longer able to think for themselves. Which is, to me, far more frightening and weird than any (perhaps futile) aerial spraying.

a reply to: Gh0stwalker

The evidence is irrefutable

Can i please see the mass spectrometry analysis you have from the samples you collected?

a reply to: CarlGrove

Because starting in the 90s new turbofans were introduced. They produce contrails at altitudes older engines don't, and persistent trails where older engines left short trails. The new engines are much more efficient.

a reply to: CarlGrove

Contrails themselves haven't changed. Aircraft engines have. Modern engines produce cooler exhaust with higher water content due to the high by ratios of modern turbofans. Also large numbers of lower flying turboprops have been replaced by turbofan regional jets like the CRJ and E-Jet, while turbojet powered airliners are just about extinct. Therefore not only have the numbers of aircraft increased overall, but contrails are now likely to be produced by the entire spectrum of commercial aircraft fleets. Thirty years ago it would have been mainly larger aircraft. This change can be seen in both military and civil markets as ancillary military types tend to be based on civil platforms (the Airbus A330 becoming the RAF's Voyager KC2 being but one example).

a reply to: CarlGrove

To me the most interesting aspect of all this is how a big majority of people don't seem able to simply use their own eyes and observe what is happening right over their heads.

They do, and what they see are contrails.

Maybe they just don't care, or perhaps they are so much influenced by what offialdom and tame "experts" say that they are no longer able to think for themselves.

Could it be that they know what they are looking at, and they don't need someone to tell them what they already know...they are contrails.