You have all been duped.

Your suggesting jesus was an alien? so what of his humble birth in the stable? I suppose you know exactly how it all happened dont you.
Give me a break. Im not closed minded just because im not a fanatical beleiver.

I would listen to your daughter, my friend, as she is a fresh and open mind, and is not prejudiced.

Anyway, the above summarizes it. You are only denying this, because you cannot accept that Jesus could be an alien. However the truth is, the evidence says otherwise, and so does the bible:

Angels from the sky? Aliens?
Three wise men guided by a star? UFO
"I am not of this kingdom" extraterrestrial?
Virgin Birth? Artificial insemination?
Jesus's Miracles? Technology?
The disappearance from the cross? Rescued by a UFO?

Further, the origin of Jesus is much debated. There is a lot of evidence to show that the Christian Jesus never even existed. Jesus orgins go as far as India, to perhaps Krishna, who has exactly the same story.

P.S A halo is usually depicted in the form of a golden glowing ring above the head. Jesus, was sometimes depicted, with the halo behind his head. In the photograph everyone is depicted with a halo like Jesus. The fact that Jesus is seated in a rocket like machine, that is being witnessed by people around him, some who are working on the machine like device itself. There is therefore at least some reason to believe it is not a halo, which only leaves one possibility - a transparent helmet.

Here is the same painting of Madonna, showing the depiction of a halo:



Just for the sheer heck of it, here are more paintings, when Mary was younger, depicting disks again hovering in the skies. 15th century tapestries:





Whose being fanatical, is it me who is finding the piling evidence for Jesus's extraterrestrial origin compelling and worthy of serious consideration,or you, who is denying it all, because you cannot possible contemplate Jesus was not of this kingdom.

[edit on 8-12-2004 by Indigo_Child]

Aliens and UFOs are nothing more than government fabricated lies to divert your attention away from its experimental military aircraft...and you all bought it and are soaking in it. Isn't it ironic that the government who created the UFO phenomena is being blamed for UFO coverups? You people are hillarious and do not realize to the extent that you have been manipulated. There are government officials who have been laughing at you for the past 50 years.

You sir, have no proof. We do.
Whereas there is an abundance of proof showing that UFO encounters have been recorded WAY before modern experimental aircraft. You are insinuating that the UFO "craze" was manufactured by the government, I'm assuming in the late 40's to cover experimental tests (since this is when such programs began in earnest). We have already shown that UFOs are depicted in art and literature going back hundreds, even thousands of years. This is not even taking into account the stories of "foo fighters" during WWII, pre-dating the aforementioned coverup attempt.

Calm down people. Hasn't anyone heard of Project Blue Book? It went through extensive detail after investigating a large number of UFO sightings and found no refutable proof to their existence. There has been government proof that UFO (et's) do not exist.

If you believe the government so much, then you should've also believed them in July of 1947 when they announced they had captured a flying saucer, despite their later retraction. If it was "proof" as you claim, then there wouldn't have been cases still listed as "unexplained", nor would Projects Grudge and Sign have ever occurred, or were you not aware of those?

Blue Book states, and rightfully so, that there is no proof to the existence of UFO's. People will deny the validity of BB and claim the government is hiding something. I mean, that's what the government was after, for people to question the integrity of the project and further fantasise about government cover ups and write BB as a coverup. Why would the government in the 50s and 60s try to prove the existence of UFO's, there was no basis or proof in the first place that they even existed.

You should listen to the words of the man who ran Project Bluebook, as he admitted that the aim of the project was to discredit UFOs, not prove they exist...even while other government projects (secret at the time, but now basically common knowledge) continued in earnest to learn more about them. You also realize of course that even former Presidents have UFO encounters on record, and Reagan spoke of possible extra-terrestrial threats at times as well...

The paintings could be anything, pure fantasy as far as I am concern. There is Hindu text and paintings that describes flying machines and possible air battles called (I believe) The Seven Rishi Cities. These and the paintings appear to be works of the mind and nothing more.
As for seeing strange objects in the sky, yes, it is nothing new, and the way people react hasn't changed much. During the Vietnam War, Vietnamese soldiers shot into the air during lunar eclipses thinking the moon was a dragon.

With some, I'd agree with you, but there are PLENTY of works of both art and literature, describing what could only be UFOs, no matter how skeptical one is. The account of Alexander the Great at Tyre for example, and some of the artwork that has already been shown on this thread (and others). You are of course entitled to your opinion, but you are facing a mountain of evidence that is contrary to that opinion....

Gazrok, Your depictions of these occurrences(sp) are in my opinion right on... Again, dispite your excellent argrument, I don't suspect a change of mind. Regardless, of how we view beliefs, it will not change the insight others have, or, have not. When your eyes see it, maybe, your mind does'nt???
I guess that question could be considered here.



[edit on 8-12-2004 by jessemole]

Posted by instar LadyV, im being reasonable here, please dont try to make me sound a fool.

Your doing a good job of that yourself, and I might add that you may want to treat others the way you want to be treated

Posted by instar Lol LadyV, van goghs models didnt have square heads either im sure!

In a time when there were no machines...it's fairly hard to come up with flying craft with people inside them, mush less shooting beams of light from them, even more unlikely is that so many different painters from different times would do so. It's always been difficult for me to understand why people take the bible as nothing but true fact...when we have other writings they take as myth....it makes no sense. They are very detailed and I feel they most likely are rooted in fact. There are stories of the "gods" actually fighting alongside man....smiting enemies with "thunderbolts"




Cave painting is c.10,000 BC and is from Val Camonica, Italy



Image c.6000 BC from Tassili, Sahara Desert, North Africa..looks a lot like a type od "suit" doesn't it?



These photos depict figures found in Ecuador. Notice they appear to be wearing space suits. You can see a comparison photo with an Apollo astronaut.



The Palenque Astronaut appears to depict a man controlling a type of machine
This ornately decorated five ton stone was discovered in 1952 in Chiapas, Mexico
covering the Tomb of the Mayan King Pacal, at the Temple of Palenque

LadyV. and all others that have given their research (belief)that are here to express this point. I sit back and admire those that realize what is obvious. I wish I 'd had the time to argrue the point further.. But I must find sleep now. I will continue to support your sleeping habits, for some others... what is the point? Enjoy your day!

Why does everyone assume these paintings are legit proof of UFO's and not just works of the authors imagination, pure fiction. Where are the links to ancient text that describe these ancient UFO's in paintings? It's pure fiction and you have taken it a step to far by wanting to believe to the point to where you convence yourself without any reasonable evidence, such as people have convinced themselves of the existence of Atlantis.

Originally posted by XL5
So Frosty, do you believe in god or points?

Direct question

No I do not believe in god and I don't not know what points are, could you elaborate.

Well...if they could think up UFOs in that time period when there wasn't such technology....wouldn't we see paintings where they thought up horseless machines too? How bout machine guns and washing machines

Lol LadyV, van goghs models didnt have square heads either im sure!

That would of course be the Cubist painter Picasso, not Van Gogh...

As for the ancient art. Yes, some is stretching, but there is MORE than enough that is rather blatantly...

1. an object in the sky
2. an object with the exact shapes of reported UFOs
3. an object inspiring awe by observers

I'd say it's a damn good case for a UFO sighting, and a DEPICTION of a UFO, regardless of whether the sighting took place, it is indicative of the phenomena being known of during those times.

Likewise, you still fail to address the foo-fighter phenomenon, as this occurred in Europe, not America, so one could hardly accuse the US of this, and it was well before such covert air projects as Stealth, etc.

As for writings, I've already told you an excellent example. The account by Alexander's historian (not fiction writer) of the flying shields at Tyre. As there is a thread just a few days old here on it, I didn't seem the need to yet again show links.

To insist it's a US government coverup, you'd also then have to account for the sightings in numerous countries across the world, as well as rural areas who've witnessed the same crafts and beings. Something tells me Argentina or a small village in Africa aren't trying to cover up a stealth program....

MY daughter said the most amazing thing yesterday just out of the blue. She is 6 and very very very smart, she can read beyond 8th grade levels and has already been tested and achieved higher then a 4th grade on apptitude tests. She is in first grade.

Anyways we are in the car and she just says "why don't aliens have noses ? do you know some of them are blind."

I was like huh ? what kind of aliens are you talking about ? And she just said "well you know some people are blind so that means some aliens are blind too"

I thought that was a pretty profound statement for a 6 year old to make. I asked her if she meant Illegal aliens and she said no, the ones with the big wierd eyes that are in the spaceships....

There is all these ideas that "aliens" are far more superior to humans with massive IQ and amazing powers. But maybe they are just like humans in many ways, some with defects, like poor vision or bad hearing or biological problems like cancer or bad hearts.. Some smarter then other, some dumb as bricks

Just something for you all to ponder on.

to the frosty ..........you so and so.............anyways my best friends dad has seen WITH HIS OWN TWO EYES a UFO and he doenst lie and niehter do i so i beleive him i guess it will take something like that to get you to see there have been pictures AND MOVING FILM which is less likely to be faked about UFOS true people can still alter it however it takes a pretty clever cameraman to alter something like moving film

Originally posted by Frosty
Why does everyone assume these paintings are legit proof of UFO's and not just works of the authors imagination, pure fiction. Where are the links to ancient text that describe these ancient UFO's in paintings? It's pure fiction and you have taken it a step to far by wanting to believe to the point to where you convence yourself without any reasonable evidence, such as people have convinced themselves of the existence of Atlantis.

Then why do they resemble current UFO pics so much?? And why is there a UFO pic taken in the 19th century by astronomer Jose Bonilla??

www.worldofthestrange.com...

Here ya go frost


One of the earliest written accounts of a sighting can be traced to the reign of the Pharaoh Thutmose III who ruled between 1504-1450 BC. The hieroglyphs translate as: In the year 22, of the 3rd month of winter, sixth hour of the day, the scribes of the house of life found it was a circle of fire that was coming in the sky. It had no head, the breath of its mouth had a foul odour, its body one rod long and one rod wide. It had no voice, their hearts became confused through it. Then they laid themselves on their bellies��they went to the Pharaoh��to report it. His Majesty ordered�[an examination of] all which is written in the papyrus scrolls of the House of Life. His Majesty was meditating upon what happened. Now after some days had passed, these things became more numerous in the skies than ever. They shone more in the sky than the brightness of the sun, and extended to the four supports of the heavens�.Powerful was the position of the fire circles. The army of the Pharaoh looked on with him in their midst. It was after supper. Therefore, these fire circles ascended higher in the sky towards the south�.The Pharaoh caused incense to be brought to make peace on the hearth�. And what happened was ordered by the Pharaoh to be written in the annals of the House of Life�,so that it be remembered for ever.[Brinsley le Poer Trench, The Flying Saucer story].
www.bufora.org.uk...



*776 AD - As the Saxons were laying seige to Charlemagne's castle at Sigiburg, flying shields appeared and rained down fire on the attacking army
*840 AD - Agobard, Archbishop of Lyon's, France, mentioned that the people believed in a place in the sky called "Magonia", and that people traveled through the skies in cloud ships. He wrote that he prevented a crowd from stoning to death three men and a women who supposedly came from one of these ships.
*1034 AD - a book called "Liber Chronicarum" from 1493 records that in *1034 a spherical object with fire shooting from both ends was seen over Europe.
*1200 AD - William of Newburgh wrote of a slivery, disc-shaped object that appeared near an abbey in England.
*1290 AD - The monks at Byland Abbey in Yorkshire, England saw a similar disk.
*1461 AD - An object like an iron rod with fire shooting from it was seen over Arras, France.

Originally posted by Frosty
It's pure fiction and you have taken it a step to far by wanting to believe to the point to where you convence yourself without any reasonable evidence, such as people have convinced themselves of the existence of Atlantis.

Probably the same reason you believe in the works of Project Blue Book. What are the chances that it is pure propogande cover-up and you are the one that has been duped?

Has it been proven 100%? No. But the tantalizing evidence remains in paintings, in radar records from countries like Belgium, and in mass sightings like Mexico City to name a few.

Originally posted by Frosty
Why does everyone assume these paintings are legit proof of UFO's and not just works of the authors imagination, pure fiction. Where are the links to ancient text that describe these ancient UFO's in paintings? It's pure fiction and you have taken it a step to far by wanting to believe to the point to where you convence yourself without any reasonable evidence, such as people have convinced themselves of the existence of Atlantis.

These photos that indigochild has uploaded, are wayyyyy before we even knew what a "flying saucer" looked like. Where would the artists have gotten the idea of outer space aliens, and spaceships? They would had to have one heck of an imagination to draw things they didn't know existed. I believe they did see these "saucers" and aliens or what have you. It perhaps didn't frighten them because most probably figured it was a sign from "God"...

Originally posted by Frosty
Aliens and UFOs are nothing more than government fabricated lies to divert your attention away from its experimental military aircraft...and you all bought it and are soaking in it. Isn't it ironic that the government who created the UFO phenomena is being blamed for UFO coverups? You people are hillarious and do not realize to the extent that you have been manipulated. There are government officials who have been laughing at you for the past 50 years.

Okay... and? You state this like it's some sort of major revelation, and in a very condescending attitude.

I think you might benefit from reading some of the posts here... I mean the REASONABLE posts, not the ones that read like tabloid headlines. There's a lot of people here, myself included, that don't doubt that all the non-hoaxed UFO phenomena is simply military aircraft testing. It would take being personally abducted by little grey men (or whatever) for me to think it was anything other than a very advanced military aircraft...

HOWEVER... that does not mean I do not leave myself open to the idea of intelligent life beyond our planet. Do I think it's visited us yet? Probably not... if so, we'd be toast. But I do believe it is -possible-. And that, my friend, is the most reasonable assessment I can make.

Originally posted by thelibra
Do I think it's visited us yet? Probably not... if so, we'd be toast.

Realy!? Why is that?..and you are right..some of has had encounters and therefore, while we can't "prove" it, we know. Aaaaanyway...why do you think we would be toast? Doesn't make sense to me.

Originally posted by diana

Originally posted by Frosty
Why does everyone assume these paintings are legit proof of UFO's and not just works of the authors imagination, pure fiction. Where are the links to ancient text that describe these ancient UFO's in paintings? It's pure fiction and you have taken it a step to far by wanting to believe to the point to where you convence yourself without any reasonable evidence, such as people have convinced themselves of the existence of Atlantis.

These photos that indigochild has uploaded, are wayyyyy before we even knew what a "flying saucer" looked like. Where would the artists have gotten the idea of outer space aliens, and spaceships? They would had to have one heck of an imagination to draw things they didn't know existed. I believe they did see these "saucers" and aliens or what have you. It perhaps didn't frighten them because most probably figured it was a sign from "God"...

We have images of chupacabra, big foot, loch ness, and dinosaurs which have never been seen by asingle human. Do not be ignorant towards the minds ability. The idea for flying saucers came from Hollywood and sci-fi books, most notably War of the Worlds (which they are now remaking).

Has anyone here atcually read Blue Book, or are you people simply going by word of mouth by what you heard from someone else? Why not come to your own conclusion in this matter?

UFO's in ancient times? They also believed in dragons, titans, and cyclopses, the UFO's they may have seen or corraborated are not too far from these other "legends".

Originally posted by Frosty
Isn't it ironic that the government who created the UFO phenomena is being blamed for UFO coverups?

Well if the government created the UFO's and arent telling us about it then surely thats still a cover-up for which they can be blamed? Judging by the inconsistencies and subsequent lack of any supportive links in your post I have decided to ignore your comments and think nothing more about them.

We have images of chupacabra, big foot, loch ness, and dinosaurs which have never been seen by asingle human. Do not be ignorant towards the minds ability. The idea for flying saucers came from Hollywood and sci-fi books, most notably War of the Worlds (which they are now remaking).

Has anyone here atcually read Blue Book, or are you people simply going by word of mouth by what you heard from someone else? Why not come to your own conclusion in this matter?

***edited to fix quoting...

I most definetley don't go by word of mouth. I do my own investigating. It's not the first time I saw the pics indigochild posted, it's like the seventh from all different areas. These are paintings that were actually done, these aren't some fake photographs. I think Project Blue Book was a crock of that was used to deter the public from believing in UFOs. Same as the usual government doodoo.

[edit on 12/8/2004 by diana]