Flight MH17 Downed By 'High-Energy Objects

originally posted by: AllSourceIntel

originally posted by: spy66
The Sources i have contact With have said that the conclusion of what brought Down the Mh17 is set/known to the investigators.

What are these sources and why hasn't Russia said or leaked anything if that is the case?

It has already been publicly stated that the investigator now know it was not a techical problem that brought Down MH17. The problem is that the US have made a claim and a accusation With said; solid evidence towards Russia and the pro-russian separatists. And set in work sanctions towards Russia based on their invovlment. The problem is that the US have been lying about their initial accusation.

We have all read the report and know this, as well as have kept up with the propaganda on both sides.

My Source is personal. I hope that can be respected.

Do you think Russia have Direct acces to the investigation the same way we do?

The investigators have debriefs every day, som bhind closed doors With dipolmats from the US and EU.
The diplomats even have acces to the Objects. Do you think Russia have the same acces?

I have to add one more thing.

Who do you think imortant phonecalls go to if the investigator/s have important findings?

Do you think Russia is on top of that need to know list?

originally posted by: spy66
Do you think Russia have Direct acces to the investigation the same way we do?

Without Russia lambasting the process, yes, I do.

a reply to: spy66

Nope, it is based on findings such as holes in the roof plating, shrapnel through the floor of the cockpit, no military aircraft seen on primary radar, and above all the sudden destruction of MH17.
It was struck from above which is what a BUK missile does.

originally posted by: AllSourceIntel

originally posted by: spy66
Do you think Russia have Direct acces to the investigation the same way we do?

Without Russia lambasting the process, yes, I do.

Russia are never invited to the press briefings about the investigations. Only invites are allowed to partake in the debriefe. Russia have to rely on leaked documents from Third parties. No diplomat from Russia is invited to closed door debreifs. But the US is.

You say: Without Russia lambasting the process. It is quite unfair that Russia can not part take in the process the same way all other partis can. It is we who are lambasting the process not the Russiand. They are kept in the dark.

Because of this. Every time Russia tries to defend it self. We use the pre constructed investigation report as accusations against them.

Right now it is being used to buy time, so that the political pressure on Russia can be maintained. People have to be prity blind not to see this happening.

originally posted by: earthling42
a reply to: spy66

Nope, it is based on findings such as holes in the roof plating, shrapnel through the floor of the cockpit, no military aircraft seen on primary radar, and above all the sudden destruction of MH17.
It was struck from above which is what a BUK missile does.

What findings do you know of that can With out any doubt prove that it was a BUK? The only reason you say its a BUK is because that is what you have been told.

Since when does a BUK missile attack from above?

a reply to: spy66

Russia are never invited to the press briefings about the investigations. Only invites are allowed to partake in the debriefe. Russia have to rely on leaked documents from Third parties. No diplomat from Russia is invited to closed door debreifs. But the US is.

What are you talking about? Not all parties are going to be attendance of the press briefing, there are several countries on that team, of I don't know how many individuals.

You say: Without Russia lambasting the process. It is quite unfair that Russia can not part take in the process the same way all other partis can. It is we who are lambasting the process not the Russiand. They are kept in the dark.

Do you know what "lambasting" means?

I do not believe you have some 'inside source' either.

a reply to: AllSourceIntel

I do not believe you have some 'inside source' either.

That is fine. It dosent change anything.

You deny what i say and you dont even know what nations are involved in the investigation?

a reply to: spy66
Do you know what the term lambasting means?

originally posted by: AllSourceIntel
a reply to: spy66
Do you know what the term lambasting means?

Yes i do. Would you imply that Russia would be to agressive or less objective than the others?

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: AllSourceIntel
a reply to: spy66
Do you know what the term lambasting means?

Yes i do. Would you imply that Russia would be to agressive or less objective than the others?

I am stating if Russia was being stonewalled in their participation in the investigation they would be highly vocal of the matter. I will note that there is a difference between being stonewalled as you are claiming and having varying roles within the investigation and indeed, event contributions. If you think Russia is being stonewalled in the process and is silent on the matter you don't understand the entity you are defending to well.

Can you define lambasting for me? You stated:

You say: Without Russia lambasting the process. It is quite unfair that Russia can not part take in the process the same way all other partis can. It is we who are lambasting the process not the Russiand. They are kept in the dark.

Why would the U.S. lambaste a process it is supposedly in total control of, much less, where is it that they have done so?

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: AllSourceIntel

I do not believe you have some 'inside source' either.

That is fine. It dosent change anything.

You deny what i say and you dont even know what nations are involved in the investigation?

I in fact know every one. If you do not, you can find so within the report as well as on the site for the investigation, both of which can be found on the first page of the thread.

a reply to: spy66

I think you are confusing legal requirements with animosity towards Russia reference the investigation.

When a commercial jetliner crashes / goes missing / shot down the investigation of that incident is defined by a few criteria.

* - The country where the incident occurred is involved (over land).
Ukraine


* - The country where the plane took off is involved.
Neatherlands


* - The nation where the plane was destined for is involved.
Malaysia


* - The Nation where the airline HQ is involved.
Malaysia


* - The nation that manufactured the aircraft is involved.
The United States


* - The nations who lost their citizens is involved.
11 Nations

This means Ukraine is primary on the investigation since it occurred in their territory. As such they can either do their own investigation or allow agencies from affected nations do the investigation or they can run a joint investigation.

Any country not directly involved is not going to have access to investigative material.

Russia knows this from their own airline industry suffering crashes / shoot downs etc.

Its not some sinister global plot as people try to make it out to be.

a reply to: AllSourceIntel

Why would the U.S. lambaste a process it is supposedly in total control of, much less, where is it that they have done so?

The US is not lambasting the process. They are Lambasting Russia With accusations and sanctions because they have total Control of the process.

EDIT: well the US actually are lambasting the process by forcing the EU to agree to sanctions.

Ironic

Ukraine 'bears full responsibility' for MH17 crash, Russia says

Moscow (AFP) - Russia's defence minister on Wednesday told his Malaysian counterpart that Ukraine bore full responsibility for the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crash that left 298 dead.

"The crash happened in the airspace of Ukraine which bears full, total responsibility for what has happened," Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu told Hishammuddin Hussein, who was in Moscow to discuss the ongoing MH17 investigation.

"I am convinced that if Ukraine solved its domestic problems without the use of armed forces, without the bloodshed there over the past month, without the use of heavy artillery... this tragedy would not have happened," Shoigu said in televised remarks.

Hishammuddin arrived in Moscow a day after Dutch investigators released a preliminary report on the July 17 disaster

"I very much appreciate your patience," he told Russian authorities, referring to the ongoing investigation.

Click link for remainder of article.

I love how Russia is now back to the old "it happened in Ukraine so they are responsible" bs argument again. I guess when Russia and the rebels have their lies called out they have no choice but to recycle the previous arguments.

It looks like Russia is trying to argue that because the rebels are Ukrainian, Kiev is responsible.

originally posted by: spy66
EDIT: well the US actually are lambasting the process by forcing the EU to agree to sanctions.

Care to support this information by linking us to your source?

Last I checked the sanctions Germany is wanting in place were put in place by the US sometime back. We have not forced Europe to do anything.

a reply to: Xcathdra

True. But dot you see the problem With this?

Russia is doomed they have no chance in hell to defend them selves.
They are the accused. The accused have a legal right to see the evidence.

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: AllSourceIntel

Why would the U.S. lambaste a process it is supposedly in total control of, much less, where is it that they have done so?

The US is not lambasting the process. They are Lambasting Russia With accusations and sanctions because they have total Control of the process.

EDIT: well the US actually are lambasting the process by forcing the EU to agree to sanctions.

Your original quote said "it is we who are lambasting the process" but whatever. I can't really argue on your EDIT

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Xcathdra

True. But dot you see the problem With this?

Russia is doomed they have no chance in hell to defend them selves.
They are the accused. The accused have a legal right to see the evidence.

The purpose of the investigation, as is stated in the report itself, was to determine the cause of the crash only. Responsibility for who brought it down is a separate issue all together and is not the focus of the Dutch investigation.

originally posted by: AllSourceIntel

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: AllSourceIntel

Why would the U.S. lambaste a process it is supposedly in total control of, much less, where is it that they have done so?

The US is not lambasting the process. They are Lambasting Russia With accusations and sanctions because they have total Control of the process.

EDIT: well the US actually are lambasting the process by forcing the EU to agree to sanctions.

Your original quote said "it is we who are lambasting the process" but whatever. I can't really argue on your EDIT

As i said before: it really dosent matter.

It really dosent matter what i inform With, because i am not a trusted person until this is over. Than the flute will play another tone.

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: AllSourceIntel

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: AllSourceIntel

Why would the U.S. lambaste a process it is supposedly in total control of, much less, where is it that they have done so?

The US is not lambasting the process. They are Lambasting Russia With accusations and sanctions because they have total Control of the process.

EDIT: well the US actually are lambasting the process by forcing the EU to agree to sanctions.

Your original quote said "it is we who are lambasting the process" but whatever. I can't really argue on your EDIT

As i said before: it really dosent matter.

It really dosent matter what i inform With, because i am not a trusted person until this is over. Than the flute will play another tone.

Life of a spy ...