‘Forced’ to fight: Disillusioned British ISIS Fighters Afraid to Come Home

Talk and discuss our differences with them? Are you serious? They will say whatever they need to say to get what they want. It's allowed to lie to non-believers in their twisted cult. Google this: Lying (Taqiyya and Kitman).

So talk, serve them tea and biscuits, cry together and agree that all was just a misunderstanding. Then offer them a baby-sitting job watching your children or grandchildren. Be sure and give them a tour of your home with a beautiful cross over the mantle or in the garden. All is well, no worries. Fantasyland.

Get real people. They cut off children's' heads and are proud of it.

STM

a reply to: charles1952

First, the source is RT, and I've seen videos of former employees saying that RT is OK for some things, but in foreign affairs it's the pits.

Is The Independent reliable enough for you?

Syria crisis: British jihadists becoming disillusioned with fighting rival rebels and want to come home

Peter Neumann, the director of ICSR, told the newspaper he believed up to a fifth of British jihadists could be looking for a way to disengage from the fighting in Syria: “The people we have been talking to... want to quit but feel trapped because all the government is talking about is locking them up for 30 years.”

He said the government should consider setting up a deradicalisation programme and suggested that disillusioned jihadists could become powerful spokesmen against Isis propaganda.

Many went over thinking they were fighting one thing - they were used

Not that most people in the west care about the difference one way or another

Social media posts have revealed that some jihadists fighting in Syria are concerned that if they are killed in fighting other jihadist groups rather than the Assad regime they will forfeit any chance of martyrdom and paradise.

originally posted by: skalla
a reply to: MarkJS

Well, they already are reaping what they sowed, my point is that in some cases impressionable, idealistic (and often fairly thick) young folk went there expecting one thing, and found that the truth was very different.

If people want those particular individuals exterminated for that, then they are murderous scum just like the majority of ISIS fighters seem to be.

That's typical of cases when people volunteer to fight in a foreign army who are avowed enemies of the country they reside in.

With your logic, in any war, we should just coddle enemy soldiers. After all they are just misguided and disappointed youth. We should give them all big hugs and bring them into our houses and feed them a nice dinner. That will make everything better, right?

You speak of the young people as idealists. That's a form of projection. You my friend are the idealist (as opposed to realist).

originally posted by: seabhac-rua
a reply to: Stormdancer777

Making it clear to the British public, for example, that if you go to fight abroad, with terrorist groups, you're gone for good is one way to help lessen this problem.

I don't know how the Brits do it, but under American law that's one of the few things one can lose citizenship over - swearing allegiance to a foreign power. Now, to be fair, the number of people who have lost their citizenship for that cause in the last hundred years can all be counted on the fingers of one hand - but it IS on the books, and it's about time to put it back to work.

Another way is to shut down public figures who advocate terrorism, Anjem Choudary is a good example. How this guy can go on TV and say the things he says is completely beyond me, he should be locked up and the key thrown away.

I can't go that far, because men much better than him have died permanently dead so that he could say whatever the hell he wants to say. Now, with that said, I'm all for deporting him as an enemy agent, and perhaps air-dropping him in the middle of ISIS territory. They seem to be his kinda people, so there ought to be no problem with that for either side. In other words, he can say whatever the hell he wants to say, but put his money where his mouth is, and say it from the combat zone where his crazy trash is being implemented. It's his ideas - so he ought to be good with that... else he's just another poser and a hypocrite.

As for ISIS, I don't think there is a permanent solution.

Oh, no, there is a VERY permanent solution to ISIS - one jihadist at a time, or small herds of them all at once. It pisses me off to no end to have to say that, but "jihad" doesn't mean what it used to. they've co-opted and corrupted the term, so it's stuck to 'em now.

I do however think that the majority of people who live in that region are against them, but it's hard to tell, the Vice documentary about ISIS gives some good insight. Fighters from all over the world are joining them, and I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking "all the rotten eggs in one basket" and the implications that naturally follow....

Indeed... now if we could just get them all to stand shoulder-to-shoulder in a rough circular area, all of them, for just a few minutes... maybe tell them we want a group photo for Facebook, Twitter,YouTube, and posterity?

a reply to: OpinionatedB

As a Muslim, I believe anyone who was a member of ISIS should face the death penalty.

There is no death penalty in Europe. Are you proposing that one be introduced just for these people?

Why are you tarnishing your own religion by confirming the popular Western prejudice all Muslims are bloodthirsty scoundrels?

What you're really saying is, 'As an individual, I want revenge on these people, and I am dragging my religion through filth to justify my own thirst for blood.'

Speak for yourself, mate. You don't speak for Muslims, or for anybody else.

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

They'll say what they have to say to get back into our society. All muslims will understand that the jihadists are just lying to be back in our midst and muslims will actually take the jihadists' message backwards from what you are proposing. Its an honor for them to lie to westerners. It would not stop one from killing. It would actually incite it in a backwards way to people that hear them. We all need to take a course in Psych Muslim 101. They are bonafide 100% liars, its their "religion" and they're proud of it.

Source: www.facebook.com...

Bukhari (52:269) - "The Prophet said, 'War is deceit.'" The context of this is thought to be the murder of Usayr ibn Zarim and his thirty unarmed men by Muhammad's men after he "guaranteed" them safe passage (see Additional Notes below).

Bukhari (84:64-65) - Speaking from a position of power at the time, Ali confirms that lying is permissible in order to deceive an "enemy."

I found a lot of these, this is just a sampling. Do not allow them in your midst, it is asking for more murders, incitement, and unless you are willing to personally sponsor them and if they commit a crime you also will pay the same sentence don't defend them 'cause your naiveté will cost someone else their life if you are wrong. With their credo of lying to "infidels" why should you believe them in the first place?

STM

Note: There's clearer quotes on this method of theirs, just don't have the time right now to look all of them up and choose the best. The ones above are the first two with a long list afterwards.

These traitors should never be allowed to return to their former homelands!
But they will.
The politically correct left will demand it! When they do return from their slaughtering of the Sunni and Christians can you imagine what type of reception they will receive from their families and their local mosque? They will be hailed as heroes.
The government controlled media will put their own spin on it.
It will go something like this, oh the poor disillusioned or misled individuals that have been deceived by fundamental islam. Radical or fundamentalist Islam is the enemy to us all and we must help them to be deradicalized and then rehabilitated because the moderate Islam is a religion of "peace".
WHAT A CROCK OF SH!T!
Islam is not a peaceful religion! It is an ideology of dominance with one intention, to spread islam globally and introduce sharia law.
"it is the nature of islam to dominate not be dominated"
founder of Ikhwan (muslim brotherhood) Hassan Al Banna
Sharia is, in practice a comprehensive, totalitarian and supremacist islamic politico-military-legal program.
Its obvious most posters in this thread have some researching to do with regards to islams mission (caliphate) and how it will affect you, one only needs to look toward western Europe for an example.
What Australia needs is our own Geert Wilders.

originally posted by: skalla

That's like suggesting that every member of the German forces of WW2 was acting like they were SS and all need sending to Nuremberg.

This is neither World War 2, nor is it Germany. ISIS is not a country at all - they just WISH they were, will call themselves one, and hope no one notices they are not until they are.

You raise an interesting question, though - does "International law" apply to "not-nations", wannabes who can only WISH they were? Probably not. International law is based upon treaties, and treaties are not binding unless a representative of a nation signs on the dotted line... and ISIS, being a not-nation, cannot have signed any.

Yup, an interesting question.

Except you would not give them then benefit of a trial by the sounds of things??

Why would we give them a trial? What law would we apply to arrive at a verdict? They have betrayed their birth nations to swear allegiance to a not-nation, but one which IS a "foreign power". Whose law do we apply to them? Sharia, since that is what they have agreed to?

No.

Just...

NO.

ETA: i'm not naive enough to think all who joined IS did so to behead folk.

Really?

Maybe they joined for the frequent-flyer benefits?

What is it ISIS does again? Wasn't it "beheads people"?

But of course they DIDN'T join a group that does that in order to do that...

Riiiiiiight...

We wouldn't join an equestrian club to ride horses, either...

originally posted by: Astyanax
There is no death penalty in Europe. Are you proposing that one be introduced just for these people?

All the more reason to leave them in the Middle East... Europe doesn't have to impose anything.

Why are you tarnishing your own religion by confirming the popular Western prejudice all Muslims are bloodthirsty scoundrels?

What you're really saying is, 'As an individual, I want revenge on these people, and I am dragging my religion through filth to justify my own thirst for blood.'

Speak for yourself, mate. You don't speak for Muslims, or for anybody else.

The Brits in the Middle East are not Muslims... They are Terrorists and you are sympathizing with them. I bet if they mass murdered on your land you wouldn't feel the same way.

a reply to: nenothtu

The question is not whether IS is or is not a nation.

The question is not whether or not international law applies, or the Geneva convention.

It is a question of (1) humanity and (2) citizen's rights.

a reply to: FearYourMind

I was on the band wagon they made their bed frame of mind and reevaluated my point of view .

The best people to help a business to catch embezzlers is a reformed embezzler or bank and museum security from reformed cat burglars .

The Fbi and other alphabet soup agencies hire reformed hackers for hacking or protection from hacking.

Maybe we can use these disgruntled jihadies to combat extremism as a way to pave a way back to the civilized world. Maybe even help keep others from joining. Heck we took in Nazi war criminals or members of unit 731 just for their knowledge why not these jihadies who know the insides of the beast.

We can only win if we break the ideology . Having disgruntled jihadies preach against it would go a long ways in the ideological battle .

originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: nenothtu

The question is not whether IS is or is not a nation.

The question is not whether or not international law applies, or the Geneva convention.

It is a question of (1) humanity and (2) citizen's rights.

(1) Are they human? No, clearly not. Below animal would be a better description.

(2) I thought they burnt their passports, so clearly they are not citizens of their ex-countries. Didn't they pledge themselves to IS? Let IS take care of them, why should we?

STM

a reply to: seentoomuch

(1) On the contrary, they are human beings in every sense of the word.

(2) I can burn any number of passports I wish, but I will continue to be a citizen of my country until I formally renounce it in favour of citizenship in another. In such a transaction the mutual consent of all parties involved is necessary.

We can argue positions, but let's stick to the facts, shall we?

a reply to: Astyanax

"Intent" is the basis. The videos that I have seen in the past to prove my point have all been removed from youtube though I'm sure they're out there in cyberspace somewhere and copies have been made. "Intent" carries a lot of weight. They pledged allegiance to ISIS on video and it's methods as they ripped up and in some of the videos burned their passports.

Let's follow with the cheery videos of them beheading children and journalists shall we? Not below animals? Right.

So, you want one of these psychos to babysit for you? Are you serious?

Source: motherboard.vice.com...

In April, a video emerged from the Islamic State in Iraq and al-Sham (ISIS) that received a fair bit of attention, especially in Canada, for featuring foreign jihadists ripping up their passports and pledging allegiance to the cause of ISIS.

Like a lot of jihadist footage, there is intense music backing chanting men, while masked fighters clad in black shout and threaten enemies, receiving applause in the process. Then, out of the procession of foreign fighters destroying their passports, a suspected Canadian appears on-screen speaking English.

“This is a message to Canada and all the American tyrants: We are coming and we will destroy you, with permission from Allah the almighty,” he says, before ripping up and throwing his passport into a burning fire. Though he never directly claims Canadian citizenship in the video, the young man says he’s an emigrant to Syria and has a noticeably North American accent.

Tipped through another journalist, Motherboard communicated with an ISIS member in Syria who claims to be this same man. He’s since been identified by CBC News as Somali-Canadian Farah Mohamed Shirdon, a young man who allegedly traveled to Syria from Calgary.

STM

ETA: Wouldn't it be better to just put out the word that if you go on jihad all citizen's rights are revoked, no exceptions, that's it. Wouldn't it prevent any further recruitment?

You know i just remembered something i read a few years ago about muslim mothers having to give consent to children wanting to fight jihad and become a martyr .
We should be locking their mothers up as well! Also i believe the act of burning ones passport is indeed renouncing ones citizenship.

They should be executed if they return.

No mercy.

A little late to be changing their minds. Besides, it does not seem like they are offended by ISIS tactics so much as they are having to fight other factions. They seem more worried about not getting their 72 virgins if they rape, crucify, and behead other Muslims, instead of infidels.

Let them burn. In fact, I think Britain should encourage every supporter of ISIS and other cockroaches to go over and fight for their cause, and yank their passports on the way out. A very cost effective way to rid the country of sh*t stirrers and extremists. And then the U.S could stop sending money to the rebels, and instead send it to Assad and let him nerve gas the whole psychopathic club.

originally posted by: MarkJS

originally posted by: skalla
a reply to: MarkJS

Well, they already are reaping what they sowed, my point is that in some cases impressionable, idealistic (and often fairly thick) young folk went there expecting one thing, and found that the truth was very different.

If people want those particular individuals exterminated for that, then they are murderous scum just like the majority of ISIS fighters seem to be.

That's typical of cases when people volunteer to fight in a foreign army who are avowed enemies of the country they reside in.

With your logic, in any war, we should just coddle enemy soldiers. After all they are just misguided and disappointed youth. We should give them all big hugs and bring them into our houses and feed them a nice dinner. That will make everything better, right?

You speak of the young people as idealists. That's a form of projection. You my friend are the idealist (as opposed to realist).

Nope, you are just trying to ridicule my point by taking it to a ludicrous extreme. Nice try but it's a fallacious argument.

I've made my point clearly and you are able to understand it if only you read and comprehend all of the words.

I'd repeat my self but i've already used clear language and simplifying my point or repeating my self would patronise you - i feel you are taking a purely emotional response to the actions of IS as a whole rather than trying to view some as individuals.

Not all German soldiers in WW2 were Nazis, war criminals, willing and knowing or SS.

a reply to: nenothtu

If we don't give them a trial them we are lawless barbarians too.. and it's quite simple to decide which laws they are judged by - they have committed crimes in Iraq or Syria via their insurgent behaviour so treat them by the laws of those lands. I imagine that these will prove punitive enough for most in this thread.

To suggest that all people joined IS to behead folk is just plain naive, and beheading folk is not IS's only activity. Many will have joined to overthrow Assad or get western puppets out of Iraq, viewing them as a vehicle for for their own nationalist beliefs.

I see many here describing absolutely everyone involved in any way with IS as inhuman, and while i understand that approach, deep down it's just a regular cop-out and allows us to brutalise others and cut off any need for understanding - that stuff really does not solve issues and while it may make folk feel better in the short term (as blood-letting often does) it will just ensure that the cycle continues.

a reply to: FearYourMind

OK, I'm not even going to finish reading the OP before retalia... err I mean answering.

None.... And I mean NONE, of the Australian ISIS fighters is coming home...!! Period...!!

They went over there knowing what was going on. They knew about the beheadings, they posed with severed heads, they made their beds.

They are not welcome here anymore and if found trying to sneak back in, they won't get far and if the people get to them before the authorities, they won't live long either..!!

Forced to fight..?

BULL$&^T..!!

They went there to kill infidels. They took part in acts that go beyond savagery and there's no way they will be allowed to bring that mentality back home.

Disillusioned my ASS..!!

More like they realised that they were doing something that they would eventually be called on to pay for one hundred fold and are getting cold feet.

Whatever happens to them, is going to be well deserved.