Battle For Strategic Mariupol Begins, NATO Vows To Do "Whatever It Takes"

originally posted by: kitzik
a reply to: Xcathdra

So, from now on we should accept only UN approved reports on this board as a fact ?

As i stated many times before..

Listen to sources and verify.

Let me ask you -

why should we believe Russia when they say they are not interfering in Ukraine when Putin admitted to sending non insignia troops into Crimea in violation of the agreement?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Listen to sources and verify.

Ok, so listen. You can't really verify all what is coming out of youtube videos, but you can believe or not according to your senses.

Those are mostly not videos from Russian organized Media propaganda.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: Bassago

Bombing Civilian areas for Intimidation according to Ukrop General.


www.youtube.com...

Do you know what Ukrop means by chance? You have a title with an ethnic slur and attempting to use that as proof of wrong doing. So just the title alone is bias not to mention the fact supposedly separatists are fighting against fascists yet ethnic slurs are ok? By the way whoever did the translations to English is really bad my Russians not great by any means but even i know they totally missed his point. If you speak Russian pay attention yo his statement he is talking about them meaning separatists . Also notice a couple of responses seem out of place we need to see the original interview.Tell you what though my Dads Russian is very good being born there so ill forward it to him since its much better than mine.

a reply to: dragonridr
First guy was speaking freely what is on his mind.
Second guy (retired colonel) which started with "giving medals to artillerist" said it with /sarcasm on/ , as i could understand he was somehow involved in prisoner exchanges in one of the cities and witnessed how Ukr army was shelling that place even when they knew that he is inside that place too.

Do you know what Ukrop means by chance

Ukrop by itself is not a bad thing (fennel) . If you say that you want to add Ukrop to the salad , this may be too much. Ukrop is very gentle slur, btw it appeared only in last couple of years. Centuries old slur is words like Hohol. Ukrop become somewhat popular word for Ukr nationals after dirty jokes they made in Odessa massacre. Jokes about barbecues from Russians. So this word is very recent indeed.

a reply to: kitzik

Let me ask you -

why should we believe Russia when they say they are not interfering in Ukraine when Putin admitted to sending non insignia troops into Crimea in violation of the agreement?

a reply to: Xcathdra

I don't believe that Russia is not "interfering" in Ukraine. I also don't believe that Mariupol will fall back to Novorossia without significant russian aid.

a reply to: kitzik

It's really EVIL of those who are trying to deny the real facts on ground which are "that more 2500 civilians have been killed by Junta's artillery shelling".

That is going extremely LOW on the morality scale. Guess some people can live normally by that.

a reply to: victor7

It's really EVIL of those who are trying to deny the real facts on ground which are "that more 2500 civilians have been killed by Junta's artillery shelling".

So the separatists haven't killed one person on the ground...Really?

Maybe you forgot about this...



And that's just the one we know about, how many more are there we don't know about?

a reply to: victor7

That is going extremely LOW on the morality scale. Guess some people can live normally by that.

And some can live easily with these stories that come out after the separatists leave because they know what happens when they defy them.

www.kyivpost.com...

www.thejournal.ie...

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

The problem is that west will happily close their eyes when Ukr army doing some bad things and will happy swallow
propaganda video like this :
Ukrainian Refugees Resist Siberian Exile: Kremlin sending Donbas residents to Russian Far East
youtu.be...

Sure, some refugees resettling in Siberia, if they see that no one is giving them new flats in Moscow but in Siberia yes.
But western propaganda will make you to believe that Russian commandos infiltrated into Ukraine, abducted citizens and sent them in cattle wagons to Siberia.
Conspicuous thing that I don't see any "resisting" in this video, and the train is Donetzk- Moscow. But when you hear voice similar to National Geographic historical videos coupled with images of Stalin in a year or two if I ask regular citizen in Europe what happened to Donetzk region population. They will answer : "Many were massacred by pro russian terrorists, the rest were exiled to Siberian gulags"
In 5 years time if they don't find any believable "trains of deportation" they gonna simply substitute it with chronicle of Nazi ww2 jewish cattle wagons. But, but ... I don't see real evidences. Shut up, Russians always do this, can't you see STALIN ?
Like Holodomor, there was famine not only in Ukraine, but in Near Volga regions too. Today you think it was deviously constructed Russian genocide against Ukranians.
Meanwhile Joe Biden son will continue happily poisoning Russian soil extracting oil. No, there is no Russians here, they all were massacred by "bloody communists"

a reply to: kitzik

Would not deny or cover up crimes of Stalin on Ukrainians or others who came under his EVIL grip. Would not even give justifications to the subtle but steady oppression by Communism on people until it was finally thrown out the window.

In 21st century such crimes are forced starvation, artillery bombing of cities, intentionally cutting off basic utilities etc. should not take place.

Also this practice of using "behind the curtain" strings to conduct REGIME CHANGES in third world needs to be abolished. Given the recent experiences in Iraq, Libya etc., this practice can be easily classified as a war crime.

There is a joke in Kiev these days: US will support Ukraine till the last Ukrainian.

Makes perfect coordination with the foreign policies of the USA.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: kitzik

It's really EVIL of those who are trying to deny the real facts on ground which are "that more 2500 civilians have been killed by Junta's artillery shelling".

That is going extremely LOW on the morality scale. Guess some people can live normally by that.

You do realize there are over 2000 Ukrainians missing dont you? With the discovery of mass graves doesnt look good. But you seem to think the west ignores what Ukraine's up to. Might i suggest reading the UN report. Oh and so you know Russians have been using grad rockets to shell cities also. Remember Ukraine's army uses Russian tactic and well frankly Russians never concerned themselves with civilian casualties. So i find it funny you choose to see only one side of things but read the UN report anyway maybe youll at least stop trying to play off this attacking civilians thing.

a reply to: dragonridr

If you say Russian Army killed more than 100K civilians in Chechen wars, that I would accept right away. But that rebels are shelling towns in NovoRossiya, would a blatant misinformation and thus not acceptable.

Today's world requires that armies achieve their objective without conducting acts like shelling the cities or choking off the utilities etc. Doing so would be a war crime and dealt with accordingly.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: dragonridr

If you say Russian Army killed more than 100K civilians in Chechen wars, that I would accept right away. But that rebels are shelling towns in NovoRossiya, would a blatant misinformation and thus not acceptable.

Today's world requires that armies achieve their objective without conducting acts like shelling the cities or choking off the utilities etc. Doing so would be a war crime and dealt with accordingly.

By the way Russian rockets are indeed falling into civilian areas but more to the point. Russian the separatists and Ukraine all use the same battle tactics they all have the same source the USSR. Their military is not designed for precision strikes its beyond all their capabilities. So when groups like Ukraine and Russia slug it out civilians will die. The easiest way to prevent this is for Russia to remove its troops and everyone sit down and discuss options. But Putin cant have that hes to vested at this point to back down his ego wont allow it.

a reply to: kitzik

The problem is that west will happily close their eyes when Ukr army doing some bad things and will happy swallow
propaganda video like this :
Ukrainian Refugees Resist Siberian Exile: Kremlin sending Donbas residents to Russian Far East

Propaganda you say...Oh that's right if it isn't a Russian media source it is automatically propaganda.

Sure, some refugees resettling in Siberia, if they see that no one is giving them new flats in Moscow but in Siberia yes.

But wait, then that video isn't propaganda?

But western propaganda will make you to believe that Russian commandos infiltrated into Ukraine, abducted citizens and sent them in cattle wagons to Siberia.

And exactly where has that happened, because your video says nothing of the sort and no western media outlet has ever said that?

Conspicuous thing that I don't see any "resisting" in this video, and the train is Donetzk- Moscow.

So since you didn't see any resisting it didn't happen, but you understand that just saying no to going is considered resisting, but of course you already know that...right?

Obviously it isn't in Donetsk, Ukraine.

"Many were massacred by pro russian terrorists, the rest were exiled to Siberian gulags"
In 5 years time if they don't find any believable "trains of deportation" they gonna simply substitute it with chronicle of Nazi ww2 jewish cattle wagons. But, but ... I don't see real evidences. Shut up, Russians always do this, can't you see STALIN ?

Your world is a real interesting one isn't it?

Like Holodomor, there was famine not only in Ukraine, but in Near Volga regions too. Today you think it was deviously constructed Russian genocide against Ukranians.

Meanwhile Joe Biden son will continue happily poisoning Russian soil extracting oil.

You do understand he will not be in Russia, so how is he poisoning Russian soil?

a reply to: victor7

If you say Russian Army killed more than 100K civilians in Chechen wars, that I would accept right away. But that rebels are shelling towns in NovoRossiya, would a blatant misinformation and thus not acceptable.

Really...

Your world is a real interesting one isn't it?

Unfortunately this is your world.

All you definitely claim is - "Obviously it isn't in Donetsk, Ukraine".
- Yes, it is.

Want more Monty Python style arguing ?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Yes, this video is a good source about battle for Mariupol.

This ceasefire is temporary, and if you would read what I wrote before in this thread you wouldn't be surprised.
Ceasefire was broken not only near Mariupol and not only by "separatist" forces. It is no secret for anyone who is closely watching events.

a reply to: kitzik

All you definitely claim is - "Obviously it isn't in Donetsk, Ukraine".
- Yes, it is.

And you really do need to learn how to read a bit better, because I was replying to this statement.

Conspicuous thing that I don't see any "resisting" in this video, and the train is Donetzk- Moscow.

And the Donetsk that they were referring to was Donetsk, Russia because they wouldn't be refugees if they were in their Ukrainian city of Donetsk.

Want more Monty Python style arguing ?

Who is arguing...well maybe you are.

One last thing...in the video that you posted it clearly states the refugees are on Russian soil not Ukraine, so the Donetsk they are talking about is in Russia.

It helps to pay attention to the videos you post.

a reply to: kitzik

his ceasefire is temporary, and if you would read what I wrote before in this thread you wouldn't be surprised.
Ceasefire was broken not only near Mariupol and not only by "separatist" forces. It is no secret for anyone who is closely watching events.

Sorry but the separatists have broken both cease fires, which in turn got a retaliation from Ukraine. And that would have been evident to someone following this conflict on a daily bases.