Arizona-9 Year old girl kills gun instructer

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

How is any of this going to help a 9 yr old? Are you going to be there when her nightmares begin? Is the NRA going to pay for the therapy she will need for years to come? I guess she can be the extremists martyr because her life has been sacrificed for your cause. Does that make you feel all powerful and you gonna show them lousy liberals. IT WAS NOT A LIBERAL THAT SHOT THE INSTRUCTOR AND RUINED THAT CHILD'S LIFE.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed
a reply to: Biigs

Yep, I just meant to say, but didn't put it into words, that gun safety have better ways of certifying instructors. I remember taking gun safety at our local police station in their basement when I was about 12 years old, and it had a written test and was taught by police officers. I never forgot it because it was taught so well.
They taught that there is no such thing as an "unloaded" gun. Hence, handling guns should always be done as if they are loaded. It is usually only the "unloaded" guns that actually kill people when mishaps or accidental shootings happen.

that is exceptionarly gun safety.

good for them and good for you.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

How is any of this going to help a 9 yr old? Are you going to be there when her nightmares begin? Is the NRA going to pay for the therapy she will need for years to come? I guess she can be the extremists martyr because her life has been sacrificed for your cause. Does that make you feel all powerful and you gonna show them lousy liberals. IT WAS NOT A LIBERAL THAT SHOT THE INSTRUCTOR AND RUINED THAT CHILD'S LIFE.

And it wasn't the NRA nor was it conservatives and it wasn't the shooting community. It was a stupid and preventable accident and it is not any different than many other stupid and preventable accident. I know a teenager who is a quadriplegic because she was permitted to hop on a 4 wheeler that was way to big for her to drive around on some sand dunes when she was about that age. Is it the fault of Yamaha for making the ATV? The park service for allowing 4 wheelers up on the dunes?

Sometimes # just happens and it is not the result of a wide societal issue. I'm amazed that anything bad happens people automatically think that someone should pay and that there aught to be a law. That this story has gone around the world indicates just how rare an event this is.

originally posted by: VikingWarlord
a reply to: joemoe
I was taught the importance of firearm safety at a young age. My dad stood behind me and helped me fire a 9mm beretta at age 5. By age 6 i was trap shooting with a 12 gauge and hunting with a 30.06. Each person is different, and not everyone is disciplined enough to fire a weapon. This is cleary an idiotic decison to give any child a fully automatic weapon, especially without explaining muzzle rise and recoil and hammering home having a proper grip on the weapon. I feel sorry for the poor girl.

This incident is tragic no matter how you put it. However, no one really mentioned what model of uzi was used. Mass Media thinks that all UZI (or guns for that matter) are fully auto and shoots 50 cal. But IWI makes semi-automatic UZI that shoots 22LR. If that is the case, this may just be a tragic accident and not negligence on the instructor's part for letting a kid shoot a full-auto 50 cal fire breathing death machine.

a reply to: j.r.c.b.

In looking at the YouTube version of this (or I missed it before), you can see her hand turn toward the instructor when he said to go all the way. She for unsure lost control via her strength, and either the gun took her hand that way via its recoil (and her body was following), or she was panicking and turning toward him for help.

I don't know this gun but I've never shot a gun with one hand unless I know I can handle the kick. Maybe that's how it's done with this particular one? It doesn't make sense he would allow her to do that, or to not hold her wrist with his hand. The question was why he made that call. He must have thought her capable of something more than we know at this time.

a reply to: joemoe

holy crap!!

i didnt even know there was a 50 version.

thats just insane, one mag in 5 seconds of 50 cal, holy hot damn thats dangerous

a reply to: Briles1207

First of all the UZI is not high powered it uses 9mm ammo. High power is considered rifle rounds like the .308. Also turning a accident is propaganda to push a agenda is kinda pathetic.



That being said at that age you should be learning on small caliber rifles like the the 10/22. It uses a .22 round and is perfect for learning rifle safety and usage. Air rifles also are a great learning tool.

originally posted by: Biigs
a reply to: joemoe

holy crap!!

i didnt even know there was a 50 version.

thats just insane, one mag in 5 seconds of 50 cal, holy hot damn thats dangerous

Was an exaggeration on my part, but apart from the 22LR and the 9mm there are the 45ACP and 41AE UZI.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

How is any of this going to help a 9 yr old? Are you going to be there when her nightmares begin? Is the NRA going to pay for the therapy she will need for years to come? I guess she can be the extremists martyr because her life has been sacrificed for your cause. Does that make you feel all powerful and you gonna show them lousy liberals. IT WAS NOT A LIBERAL THAT SHOT THE INSTRUCTOR AND RUINED THAT CHILD'S LIFE.

For starters, I wasn't blaming any of this on any political party in the first place, I was speaking about what happens after events like this occur, and that was just a side note anyways.

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Again, what happened to the old ways? Give them a rifle first, hunt small animals, like I was taught. Just own it, this stupid debacle of putting Autos in the hands of babies.

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff

Any country where its possible for a child to handle let alone fire an Uzi needs to have a long hard look at itself

Agreed, but that's not going to happen among gun rights activists. If something bad happens with a gun, it doesn't matter. The right to bear arms will ALWAYS trump whatever went wrong. Always. They're not of right mind.

I have no sympathy for them, and if the parents of that girl make her pick up a gun again they don't need to be parents.

originally posted by: noonebutme
You are choosing very, very RARE occasions when a child has used a gun to a questionably positive result.

what part of killing an intruder is "questionably positive"? i wasn't aware that there was anything dubiously beneficial to defending oneself or one's family against such people...

But,I would argue that none of those children are fully capable of understanding the implications of what it means to end someone's life with a weapon.

at that point, all that needs to be understood is that a threat is present, and after action is taken, the threat is no longer present....why do you insist that some deeper, esoteric, existential, philosophical understanding is necessary?

You're also taking a child of 9 years old and making them responsible for adult actions - and placing expectations of an adult onto them. Which is unfair and also, in my opinion, unhealthy.

and which adult actions would those be?

But hey - you love your guns and want to surround yourselves with them - all the more to you. When you wonder how and why young teens commit atrocities like school shootings - it is not because they were not taught how to use a gun responsibly. It's because they simply do not have a true value on the impact firing a gun at another human being has.

that's entirely debatable. but based on the fact that your location field states "as far from the US as possible!", i can see that trying to talk any kind of sense to you is going to be an exercise in frustration....you've got your mind made up, and i doubt anything will change it, or enable you to see things from any perspective, other than the very narrow one you already have..

Sure, in your examples of rare occurrences when a child miraculously stops an intruder - great. Do they fully understand what they did? What it means? I doubt it. But they're your kids, so - go for it.

it's not as rare as you think. and again, i think you're placing entirely too much importance on the esoteric/existential/philosophical side of things....

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

How is any of this going to help a 9 yr old? Are you going to be there when her nightmares begin? Is the NRA going to pay for the therapy she will need for years to come? I guess she can be the extremists martyr because her life has been sacrificed for your cause. Does that make you feel all powerful and you gonna show them lousy liberals. IT WAS NOT A LIBERAL THAT SHOT THE INSTRUCTOR AND RUINED THAT CHILD'S LIFE.

And it wasn't the NRA nor was it conservatives and it wasn't the shooting community. It was a stupid and preventable accident and it is not any different than many other stupid and preventable accident. I know a teenager who is a quadriplegic because she was permitted to hop on a 4 wheeler that was way to big for her to drive around on some sand dunes when she was about that age. Is it the fault of Yamaha for making the ATV? The park service for allowing 4 wheelers up on the dunes?

Sometimes # just happens and it is not the result of a wide societal issue. I'm amazed that anything bad happens people automatically think that someone should pay and that there aught to be a law. That this story has gone around the world indicates just how rare an event this is.

It's all over my news stations because the girl & her family are from here, NJ....It did hit world news pretty quick...

originally posted by: Dianec
a reply to: j.r.c.b.

In looking at the YouTube version of this (or I missed it before), you can see her hand turn toward the instructor when he said to go all the way. She for unsure lost control via her strength, and either the gun took her hand that way via its recoil (and her body was following), or she was panicking and turning toward him for help.

I don't know this gun but I've never shot a gun with one hand unless I know I can handle the kick. Maybe that's how it's done with this particular one? It doesn't make sense he would allow her to do that, or to not hold her wrist with his hand. The question was why he made that call. He must have thought her capable of something more than we know at this time.

TY. I also think he should have been helping to hold her hand or arm. It looked like he was helping her with that 1st shot, but almost didn't make sense to tell her to go full, then just stand a slight ways away...again, just such a sad accident. TY for checking it out

originally posted by: j.r.c.b.

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

How is any of this going to help a 9 yr old? Are you going to be there when her nightmares begin? Is the NRA going to pay for the therapy she will need for years to come? I guess she can be the extremists martyr because her life has been sacrificed for your cause. Does that make you feel all powerful and you gonna show them lousy liberals. IT WAS NOT A LIBERAL THAT SHOT THE INSTRUCTOR AND RUINED THAT CHILD'S LIFE.

And it wasn't the NRA nor was it conservatives and it wasn't the shooting community. It was a stupid and preventable accident and it is not any different than many other stupid and preventable accident. I know a teenager who is a quadriplegic because she was permitted to hop on a 4 wheeler that was way to big for her to drive around on some sand dunes when she was about that age. Is it the fault of Yamaha for making the ATV? The park service for allowing 4 wheelers up on the dunes?

Sometimes # just happens and it is not the result of a wide societal issue. I'm amazed that anything bad happens people automatically think that someone should pay and that there aught to be a law. That this story has gone around the world indicates just how rare an event this is.

It's all over my news stations because the girl & her family are from here, NJ....It did hit world news pretty quick...

Because it's a rare event. My friends in Australia have already seen the story and the OP link is from the UK. That they are from NJ, where guns are very highly regulated, may explain why they decided to play with FA on vacation. The family's experience with guns probably is only from the cool movies.

a reply to: NavyDoc

BS. It is not a rare event that our children are killed with guns every day. This is too extreme. The parents fell for it and they should be forever ashamed.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

Again, what happened to the old ways? Give them a rifle first, hunt small animals, like I was taught. Just own it, this stupid debacle of putting Autos in the hands of babies.

I agree, I would never allow a kid below the age of 16 to shoot a full auto anything, and then only if they were individually fit to use one mentally and physically and had already been through safety class, and have experience shooting other weapons. I have a daughter almost 9 and even the thought of letting her shoot ANY gun at her current stage of development in life makes me shudder.
The first gun I ever shot was a .22 bolt action rifle at the age of 6 and it was a very safe place and I had very responsible family to make sure it was all done safely with no detail left unchecked.

originally posted by: DeepImpactX

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff

Any country where its possible for a child to handle let alone fire an Uzi needs to have a long hard look at itself

Agreed, but that's not going to happen among gun rights activists. If something bad happens with a gun, it doesn't matter. The right to bear arms will ALWAYS trump whatever went wrong. Always. They're not of right mind.

I have no sympathy for them, and if the parents of that girl make her pick up a gun again they don't need to be parents.

No, the logical and reasoned response to an unusual accident is not to "ban everything." Anti-gun activists don't care about good things that happen with a gun, like self defense, they just focus on an unusual event and throw logic and caution to the side. That's the sign of an ill mind, not understanding that accidents happen and that nothing is 100% safe.

Rational thinking is not the purview of the anti-gun people who extrapolate every bad event as an opportunity to restrict the rights of the millions who own guns without a crime and without an accident.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: NavyDoc

BS. It is not a rare event that our children are killed with guns every day. This is too extreme. The parents fell for it and they should be forever ashamed.

More kids were killed last year in amusement park accidents than on gun ranges last year, so I don't think that a valid comparison. Should we ban amusement parks and are parents insane for letting their kids ride roller coasters?

Last Stop shooting range, in hindsight maybe not the best choice of names.

Hopefully this sign has been taken down by now: