Arizona-9 Year old girl kills gun instructer

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: alldaylong

I see my point flew right over your head. For the second time, we live in a country that has two GIANT borders that are near impossible to guard. To our south is a country (who have made guns illegal) that is literally owned by criminal organizations who have divided the country up and are also sending their people north of our border to establish stronger roots here. YOUR country on the other hand is an island and the nearest countries to your country are all 1st world countries with safety indexes close to yours.

Your link means nothing. It is just a nice ranking of the safest countries in the world. It doesn't take into account why they are safer though, so it is a useless piece of data in this discussion.

Seriously, your argument is dumb. Just drop it, comparing British crime to American crime is ludicrous. Again look at Mexico to our south. Guns are illegal there. How is that working out for them?

Again you are talking total nonsense.

The Countries of Russia and Georgia share a common border. Look how far apart they are on the list.

If you can't be bothered to look, Georgia is the 8th safest country to live in, Russia lies at 92nd position.

Georgia also shares a border with Turkey, which is in 58th position.

And there is strict gun control in Russia, yet it is 92nd.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: NavyDoc

So give me a number and time span. Two babies in less than 10yrs ain't enough apparently. How many gun packing 8 and 9 year olds would it take to convince you this is a bad idea.

Everyone here has said that it was a bad idea, so I don't get your silly rant. However, one death of a child and one death of an instructor in a decade does not make this a common occurance.

originally posted by: MOMof3
At 64, they are babies to me. You guys really are ok with automatics in the hands of babies. Evil, just plain evil. This grandmother says "Goodbye" to you.

and where, exactly, did i say this?

originally posted by: NavyDoc
40 accidental deaths? Less than that of 5 gallon buckets and swimming pools.

By far. From 1999-2011, accidental drowning accounted for about five times as many fatalities as did accidental shootings in all age groups. That ratio more than doubles if you cut the age range to 0-13. But no one hesitates to take junior swimming, do they? They don't hesitate to ride bikes, either, but about the same number of people die in bicycle accidents every year as in accidental shootings as well.

Unfortunately, people view this subject through emotion and not proper perspective. As I said many pages ago now, any popular activity that entails some degree of risk will inevitably lead to a number of accidental fatalities in a country of 320 million people. Its unfortunate, yes, but its just a fact of life.

a reply to: Briles1207

I am a British fellow, so I have not fired anything more powerful than an air rifle, and at a carnival at that. I think we all know how pathetic those are.

But I happen to believe that the second amendment of the US constitution is perhaps one of the most important segments of that document, and indeed any document of its type in the entire world. I believe that it is vital for the freedom of the people to be enforced, and that they have access to the tools to enforce that freedom.

I also believe that young people should be familiarised with the firing of, and safety procedures surrounding firearms, in order that a society based on such a fine document, should be able to function without undue casualties and risk to its citizens from negligent discharge. However, there is no way in the world that I would ever suggest that a nine year old should be given an Uzi to train with. One does not have to be a regular at a gun range, to know that Uzis have always had issues with muzzle lift when fired, and there are plenty of people out there, I am sure, adults mind you, who cannot handle them safely for this exact reason.

I would compare it to the first time one uses an angle grinder, or a powerful drill. If you are going to damage yourself, or someone else, it will likely be during that moment when the disk touches the work for the first time, or when the drill finally bites, and the torque tries to rip the tool from ones hands.

Uzis fire pretty quickly (although over the last decade there have been advances in SMG design and manufacture, which have seen greater rounds per minute speeds recorded by newer weapons platforms), and expecting a nine year old to be able to cope with automatic fire from one of the most spray and pray, of spray and pray weapons, without doing something some serious damage, is foolhardy at best, and irresponsible at worst.

The instructor here, in my opinion, was a moron. The kid probably wieghs less than the weight of the lift that was being applied to the weapon during firing, and I cannot conceive of any way that upon first firing it on auto, that any other result could have come about, other than someone getting seriously hurt or killed. The instructor should have known much better than to allow the weapon to be operated by this poor child, in any mode than single shot, until they actually had the body and muscle mass to control the muzzle lift issues.

Hell, I am twenty nine years of age, and I am not sure I could pin one of those suckers down on my first try either! Luckily for me, I prefer blades.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I'm not english, soooo just read the news part ?

And pool are not make to kill people xD Gun yep. Your argument are flaw, wrong and you know it .


NRA is the worst lobby of all times. Brainswashing americains for profit and deaths.

Gun are not tools.

originally posted by: Jakal26
Watch as the anti-gun crowd exploits this little girl.
Oh...that's not what you're doing? ummhumm.....anything to bash the right to bear arms, aye?

Tragic accident/dumb (understatement) instructor.....
But for those asking why a child would be taught to shoot or claiming that children don't need to learn to handle firearms...

Reason 1

Here's a direct quote from the news piece (above) that you linked to

While liberals are sneaking around smoking hopeium and staging “events” to restrict our 2nd Amendment rights (think Sandy Hook and Boston Bombing), this courageous young man took destiny into his own hands and put down the deadly intruder with one clean shot (unfortunately the victim was the shooters 2-year-old sister)

Did you even read the piece at all?

originally posted by: FreeQuebec86
And pool are not make to kill people xD Gun yep. Your argument are flaw, wrong and you know it

.

The problem with this type of statement is that you're attempting to assign an inherent morality to an inanimate object. It has none.

I doubt the moral judgements matter much to the families and friends in either case. The end result is the same regardless of cause, and is of little comfort to those affected. His argument is sound.

a reply to: vor78

Children should be in pools, bicycles, their parents cars. They do not belong on shooting ranges, gun shows, handling automatic firing weapons. That was an accident that should not have happened. "Guns don't kill, people do". Is that what you are going to tell that child?

a reply to: Briles1207

Noob training instructor. Never fill up the mag with bullets. Only put enough for each lesson/stance/form etc. The full auto should have been with a mag of 2-3. During the demo, the student needs fire from the hip with positive rise control, to ensure the student understands the amount of rise happens with a few full auto rounds. Increase to a mag of 5 upon student ability. Once they understand the rise, then worry about accuracy..

originally posted by: NavyDoc

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: NavyDoc

So give me a number and time span. Two babies in less than 10yrs ain't enough apparently. How many gun packing 8 and 9 year olds would it take to convince you this is a bad idea.

Everyone here has said that it was a bad idea, so I don't get your silly rant. However, one death of a child and one death of an instructor in a decade does not make this a common occurance.

hes got a point.

you cant compare every accident to every other accident.

yes its very sad, but the guy gave a tiny girl a submachine gun, and then died because of that.

its not a dead baby, dead dog, drowned child (or adult) or anything else, HE GAVE A CHILD A WAR MACHINE

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: alldaylong
Britain is a safer country to live than The U.S.

By just under 10% safer. And we don't need bloody guns to make us a safer place to live.

www.numbeo.com...

I wonder if you'd be singing the same tune about your country's safety if your country butted up against another country that happened to be a 3rd world country not ran by its government but by international criminal organizations that are EXTREMELY violent.

Oh yeah, guns are illegal in Mexico. How is that working out for them?

Your argument has little or no relevance. In fact it's total rubbish.

If you had bothered to look at the link, you would see that Fiji, and other ISLAND nations are unsafer to live in than The U.K.
As for size, The U.K. is 15 times larger than Fiji.

Here is the link again

www.numbeo.com...

Krazyshot's argument was totally VALID. not rubbish at all. We Americans absolutely NEED our right to own guns for MANY reasons, and practically ANY of those reasons can be a life and death reason. That isn't rubbish when not having that right could be the number one factor in contributing or causing your death here.
And folks in Mexico have had the help of our own president to BE ARMED against us here across the border, where many of those very weapons they gave to Mexicans, have already been used in the deaths of citizens and even government officials here across the border.
So, it isn't rubbish in the slightest every single point he made. (exclamation point)

When I think of the gall our leaders must have to do these kinds of treasons, I begin to also think of the gall it must take for others here and abroad to forget about it. We might end up needing your help soon even if you just bring your polo club, or cricket stick.

Kid has some skills! Enlist her and send her on her way to the middle east. She has the killer instinct to give ISIS a run for their money.

originally posted by: MOMof3
a reply to: vor78



"Guns don't kill, people do". Is that what you are going to tell that child?

Brilliant
Best post of this thread.

America...


A place where its dangerous to take 100ml of water on a plane but a 9 year old can fire a fully automatic sub machine gun.

originally posted by: Daedalus
Jesus Christ...

well, the initial reaction in this thread is pretty goddamn disgusting....so many of you celebrating the death of the instructor....he was a human being. what the hell is wrong with you?

i, of course, expected the idiotic "ban guns because guns" fruitcakes to show up, and the foreigners (mostly the english) telling us how backward and barbaric we are for allowing people to have guns (as if people being clubbed, or stabbed to death, like what happens in THEIR country, is any LESS barbaric)...i expected all that.....but people celebrating? holy s**t, that's sick....and you anti-gun fellas call US evil and sick....

was this tragic? absolutely. was it maybe not such a good idea to use an UZI as a training weapon? yeah, an UZI is awful for that. did the guy deserve to die? no..there are very few reasons why someone would genuinely deserve to die...this ain't one of 'em..

And i just LOVE how this is spun, and misrepresented in the OP's article...which is, of course, from the BBC, where demonizing guns is an art form...they fail to specify what model of UZI the kid was using, and characterize it as a "high-powered sub-machinegun".....if the gun being used was the same as the last image in the article, then that would be a micro-uzi, which would be classified as a machine-pistol...in addition to that, the gun in question only fires a 9mm round, which is a pistol round, and is known for not being especially powerful, so there goes that..AND they got the rate of fire incorrect as well...

the OP asks "when will people learn?"....i ask "when will people stop making threads like this?"

it's not that i don't want to see it reported....but i'd love to see it reported, as just news...not as an opinion piece, or used as a soapbox for a foreigner to stand on, and bitch and moan about how our country is so evil because (insert thing here)....i'm really getting tired of it....especially when it comes to guns, i'm so tired of people from other countries telling us what we do and don't need....

Ah yes because America never tells other countries what to do....they're renowned for not getting involved with things that don't concern them. I apologise. This is an opinion piece on the lunacy of letting a child use a gun. Which to many, is ridiculous, dangerous and unnecessary. It frightens me that there are people existing on this planet that cant see the harm. I don't care what country it is in UK, America, Burkina Faso, Its wrong, plain and simple. But hey what do I know? I'm just a "foreigner".

originally posted by: n00bUK
America...


A place where its dangerous to take 100ml of water on a plane but a 9 year old can fire a fully automatic sub machine gun.

this is amusing thing, they think everyone with a bottle of water is a terrorist on a plane but give guns to kids.

what a backward place, you cant even take toothpaste on to clean your self on a long flight, but a little girl with a machine pistol at the range? yeah no probs.

well this proves thats a VERY dumb idea, its just a shame a man dies to really prove it

I just noticed that OP spelled it "instructer"

I'm not sure who should be more ashamed. OP for the spelling, or me for not noticing until now.

a reply to: Xaphan

I know I know!! It was too late for me to change it once I'd noticed.

Shame on me, Im a stickler for that sort of thing too

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: alldaylong
Britain is a safer country to live than The U.S.

By just under 10% safer. And we don't need bloody guns to make us a safer place to live.

www.numbeo.com...

I wonder if you'd be singing the same tune about your country's safety if your country butted up against another country that happened to be a 3rd world country not ran by its government but by international criminal organizations that are EXTREMELY violent.

Oh yeah, guns are illegal in Mexico. How is that working out for them?

Your argument has little or no relevance. In fact it's total rubbish.

If you had bothered to look at the link, you would see that Fiji, and other ISLAND nations are unsafer to live in than The U.K.
As for size, The U.K. is 15 times larger than Fiji.

Here is the link again

www.numbeo.com...

Krazyshot's argument was totally VALID. not rubbish at all. We Americans absolutely NEED our right to own guns for MANY reasons, and practically ANY of those reasons can be a life and death reason. That isn't rubbish when not having that right could be the number one factor in contributing or causing your death here.
And folks in Mexico have had the help of our own president to BE ARMED against us here across the border, where many of those very weapons they gave to Mexicans, have already been used in the deaths of citizens and even government officials here across the border.
So, it isn't rubbish in the slightest every single point he made. (exclamation point)

When I think of the gall our leaders must have to do these kinds of treasons, I begin to also think of the gall it must take for others here and abroad to forget about it. We might end up needing your help soon even if you just bring your polo club, or cricket stick.

So in a nutshell you are saying that the reason for what is going on in The U.S. is all the fault of Mexicans..

That must be the reason why U.S. citizens have to arm themselves to the teeth.

en.wikipedia.org...

Your simplistic view is total bollocks.