Koran 72 virgins or the day of judgement? You decide

a reply to: cavtrooper7

Yes kind of...
A Shaytan... A Devil is someone who deceives and manipulates...
Much like a Satan in Judaism is a nemesis or an enemy...

Christianity took it upon themselves to blame one called Satan, Lucifer, The Devil...

It's not so similar in Islam really...

But there could rather be groups of Devils who would likely just be Jinn...
Could also be human as with the Hitlers & Stalins...
But the argument could be made that they were possessed by Jinn...
It could on the other hand be said they were in league with the Jinn and made the pact I spoke of previously...

Iblis, the original fallen Jinn has his workers not too dissimilar to the idea of Christianity's Devil worshippers...
But not all Jinn work for Iblis in such a sense... Different factions could too be said to be occult in nature!


Again apologies if it seemed long winded, it's well written about in the Quran with its own chapter specifically about the Jinn & occult natures!

a reply to: sacgamer25

I understand that their influence can be looked at much the same as the Catholic Satan but they are not considered inherently evil since they are God's creation.

Yes influence wise they are part of a pact to give them freedom that has been taken from Fallen Jinn but sill bestowed to Jinn who believe and humans who have stayed righteous...

The difference being that Angels cannot disobey God like the catholic Satan...
Only Humans or Jinn can as of free will...
Angels were made purely to serve God & spread the message...

Iblis was able to disobey God and was therefore a Jinn & often mistaken for a Fallen Angel...
Also mistaken as the 1 Devil/Satan but there can be many devils...
Blairs, Hitlers, Maos etc

Also Jinn can be good, much more like a Demon if it was to be translated correctly...
Demons were the first to be demonised...
Iblis was the first to disobey God and him and his followers are the Fallen, just not Angels!

Hopefully this diatribe makes sense

Peace!

a reply to: dollukka

Then they would be lying about their own Prophet Abrahams teaching of 1 God...

Not disagreeing with you but the authorities you speak of...

Abraham fought against the Pagan ideology of plural Gods...
Disputed this with the notion that there is but one Creator...
Jews, Christians & Muslims all follow Abrahams teachings!

That's why they are the Abrahamic Religions!

Speaking from an Islamic stance, The Quran specifically calls Jew & Christians "people of the books"...
The Torah & Gospel are holy in Islam...
The Quran is the final edition in scriptured form!

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

The lesser keys of solomon and it's Goetic listings is the nastiest capable book I have had contact with and read,essentially I saw a trap,how could ANY mortal hope to control such a being as a REAL demon?
Total insanity, but the higher levels of the Cabal are using them with GREAT skill.
IT IS MY belief THEY are fomenting war and death whenever possible and they are gutting honor out of the American Forces to do so.the PASSED 4 presidents wanted Iran and the pentagon stopped them from jumping.
YES we set up Saddam for the 1st war to destabilize the areas and, hell ,my PRISONERS ,we caught were ASKING for us to take him out,now we have THIS mess. I never celebrate death of ANY innocents but WE can't separate hostiles from their shields and MANY are lost,I would ask the M.E. ONLY to fix this but They are pushing the right buttons to get our guns up and that is the idea. It is going to happen. Sad

ALL the people of the BOOK best WAKE THE HELL UP and unite an fight AS ONE ,I pray daily for it,perhaps NAIVELY but there you are.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Yes, I know things that you dont. Does that up set you? You wouldnt believe them if I taught them to you anyways. So what's the point?

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Yes that's in line with my understanding as well.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

You have good works, so do I...but I have accepted the Blood of Christ first.

What of those who have never heard of Jesus...
Never had the opportunity of Communion...
But at the same time lived fully righteous lives with a faith in the one true Creator...

Are they not part of the salvation...

I do not accept that Jesus died for my sins...
I believe that he was a Prophet of God...
& lived a righteous life...
But God expects more from us than just the belief in an Idol...
Even the Ten Commandments were clear about graven images and idol worship...
That's exactly what has become of Jesus and he was the one who warned us of such travesty & blasphemy...

"Do not call me good...
Only My Father, Your Father is good"

a reply to: cavtrooper7

ALL the people of the BOOK best WAKE THE HELL UP and unite an fight AS ONE ,I pray daily for it,perhaps NAIVELY but there you are.

We share prayers pal...
& we are not the naive...
The naive are the ones who refuse to pray due to the notion that they feel it is helpless...

To fight a Real Demon...
Wow, it'd need a full thread to establish just the basics...
& just starting a thread like that would cause someone much spiritual turmoil...
I guess it's why I haven't...
I know God wouldn't ask me to walk that path, nor any other person...
Because it would cause a confrontation that would take all of Heaven to protect us ATSers...
We are in the thousands... Any attempt to awaken us with what knowledge we share together and seperately would surely result in death...

Sounds all doom & gloom but it's not advisable to piss off the Darkside...
God will protect us from them and teach us or guide us if it is bought to us... a spiritual Jihad...
If we go looking for it... "God help us" isn't something we could rely on in prayer...
Reap what you sow and all of that!

I'm HERETICAL because I am aware of the realities that DO NOT fit biblically. I think the Council of NICEA screwed us over but ME,I ,doesn't prove a damn thing,it just FEELS wrong that INNOCENT people HAVE to go to HELL because they don't accept the Christian way.
I would assume MYSELF to be a candidate because I like fighting bad guys.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

How do you fight a real daemon, send the one possessed to a license psychologist.

In all three texts God says I am the creator of everything and there is no power that comes to a man except the power that comes from the Holy Spirit.

If a man believes in daemons he is insane. He has justified extremely evil actions. The insane one is convinced they now actually are required to do the demonic thing they asked the daemon for.

Anyone who believes daemons are real is crazy.

Anyone who believes they are possessed is either suffering from schizophrenia and needs meds or has performed some ritual that they believed to be true thus giving themselves over to inescapable insanity.

Anyone who performed a demonic ritual has done something terribly wrong or they are about to.

This is why we can't except anything less than a perfect Holy Spirit as our guide.

Even though Catholic daemons are not real they become real to the believer who has placed other God's as having power.

It is hard to say if this kind of insanity can be cured. Only the Holy Spirit has been given the authority to drive out those daemons.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Jesus gave the church the responsibility of spreading the gospel. The world has been evangelized multiple times over since Jesus' day, and even before. For those who have yet to hear the gospel, God sends the message to those who seek Him.

You rejected the payment for sin, therefore you have already made your descision.

a reply to: sacgamer25

I have Schizophrenia and you've lost me completely...
Do you know what schizophrenia is...

It's nothing to do with possession...

You don't believe in possession or demons that's fine...

Our paths are all different anyways!

But I will still pray you never have to face a demon...
I'm sure many others who read your comments will do as well!

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I believe in the day of judgement and that we will pay for our own sins...

Jesus has been put on a pedestal...
I can't wait for his return when he enlightens us that it's deeper than has been portrayed!

I swear the original idea of these books was no more different to that of a survival guide in a wasteland. Much like that mission in Fallout 3 in Megaton Town where you gotta make a wasteland survival guide. And depending on how well you follow the parameter of the mission, it determines how well in depth the book is.

The more correct it is, the more likely it would help. The more wrong, the more likely to send one to whatever God they pray to.

Leviticus 11:13

'Whatever in the water does not have fins and scales is abhorrent to you.
13'These, moreover, you shall detest among the birds; they are abhorrent, not to be eaten: the eagle and the vulture and the buzzard"

As for more complex parables or meaning, well that could vary.
Matthew 13:24
Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field.

13:25 "But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away."

As for Abraham...The guy had to be very crazy...So crazy and dumb...It had to work.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Still waiting for your explanation of Psalm 82, exactly the same way Jesus gave it in John 10.

The Holy Spirit was to teach you all things. I know what it means now. Prove you have it. Your tree appears to be a little barren of fruit.

If you asked me, that link seems to describe practicing lawlessness.

a reply to: Not Authorized

Very well, I doubt you'll agree with me, but here it is.

Psalm 82 was God's address to the fallen angels (gods) that ruled the world, before the Divine Council. After the fall of babel, God decreed in a Divine Assembly that mankind be divided into nations. Each nation would be represented and ruled by fallen angel(s). This was part of the angelic conflict to prove to the angels, that without fellowship with God, there is only chaos. God called out Israel from the world to be His representative at the time.

We can see God's rebuke of the fallen angels for ruling unjustly and taking advantage of humanity. Therefore He said," You are gods, but shall die as men".

Jesus repeated that very same line to the Sadducees and Pharisees, because Israel had failed to fulfill her purpose...to replace the seats of the fallen angels. This is why Jesus says, "I have called you gods...".
This is what the spirit has revealed to me. The stars are as innumerable as the sand. The angels are begotten of star/light (ben shahhar). Man are begotten of the sand (ha'adamah). God promised Abraham that his seed would be as innumerable as the stars. God originally intended Israel to fill the estate that the fallen angels had abandoned, but Israel rejected her King (Christ), therefore the covenant rolled over to the Church. This is why Jesus calls the saint "morning stars" (comparable to "ben shahhar") in the 7 Letters in Revelation. Now it falls to the Church members to fill the seats of the angels who rejected God.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Jesus gave the church the responsibility of spreading the gospel. The world has been evangelized multiple times over since Jesus' day, and even before. For those who have yet to hear the gospel, God sends the message to those who seek Him.

You rejected the payment for sin, therefore you have already made your descision.

I decided to create a new thread to answer your questions regarding payment of sin.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

You're right, I do not agree with that interpretation. I knew you would use that "reasoning", that somehow Elohim are "judges" / "fallen angels", etc, behind Psalms 82. Anything but what it says. It's what I was pounded with growing up by those who "knew better than me", whenever I asked what it meant.

Can you try again? What is the word "Theos", in John 1:1? Was it the same word that was used by Christ in John 10?

Do judges/council, or "gods", walk around in darkness according to Psalm 82? If he meant fallen angels, the text in Psalm 82 would be "Ben 'elohiym" instead, just as in it was used in Genesis 6:2 to signify them there.

Hint, he did not mean a replacement for the "divine council". He was pointing out echo's of Judaism's early polytheism, and used it for a special claim. In my humble opinion, that harms the whole always consistently monotheism claim too. It also harms the concept that YHWH is the "Father". Jesus had the correct definition. Look at the Pharisee's reaction over it.

33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” 34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? 37 Do not believe me unless I do the works of my Father. 38 But if I do them, even though you do not believe me, believe the works, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.” 39 Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.

YHWH is a father alright, just not the one you think.

originally posted by: sacgamer25
If a man believes in daemons he is insane.

God disagrees with you.

He's usually right BTW...