Koran 72 virgins or the day of judgement? You decide

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

For substituting the real law with your own. Can't say he didn't warn you.

a reply to: Not Authorized

immoral or grossly unfair behavior.

a reply to: BobAthome

Another definition for lawlessness? Sure. You can include that if you wish, but it didn't end there. Sin is lawlessness. What is Christ's law? What did he say about it? What warnings did he give?

a reply to: Not Authorized

Sin is being outside of the presence of God.

a reply to: BobAthome

Again, not entirely accurate. God is everywhere, how can you never be in his presence? It is something else. Sin is lawlessness. According to John, they are intrinsically linked together.

What are Gods laws?

The point is, how you treat others, is how you treat God. If you abuse people under his name, who are you really abusing? That individual, or Jesus? What did he say?

I noticed, he showed no mercy, just like the abusers.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon
Jesus and John the Baptist got along real well. So well, that John had a nick name for Jesus: Lamb of God, who takes sin away from the world.

We all know what Lamb of God means.

I suppose...

but how exactly does HE take away your sins?

Did he die to do it?... or did he give an example on how not to sin?

In the OT one must Kill a lamb, basically placing your sins on another being... and spilling its blood to appease a blood thirsty tyrant... which does absolutely nothing but destroy an innocent life...

strikingly similar to the story Christianity uses with HIM...

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon

You're late. I expected to see you here an hour ago.

Pardon my lateness...

I had no Idea my presence was required... or requested







a reply to: Logarock


im good thanks

According to Dr. Richard Eby, who went to Heaven during his NDE, the citizens of Heaven are neuters.

Houston, we have a problem...

Dr. Richard Eby was a professor and obstetrician who fell off a second story balcony in Chicago and hit his head and died instantly and found himself in Paradise. When he came back to a bloodless corpse in the hospital morgue, the athiest Doctor refused to believe he was alive and told him to 'shut up and don't give me any of that #' because he knew that Eby had been taken into the hospital as a totally bloodless dead body.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Reflexively I raised my arms in thanks and adoration for my Lord’s love in showing me Heaven’s wonders which were mysteries to me. As I bowed my head, I noted a glowing pure-white gown which somehow I had not seen when I looked through it in search of organs ! I was awed by its total weightlessness and silky softness.

My raised arms had parted its overlapping folds for the moment, revealing me as a neuter ! This came as a shock, although I had not felt surprise at the absence of defects or scars. This alteration was so unexpected !

　　"Lord Jesus, why am I now a neuter？ I was a man."

　"Yes, Dick, you were always a man, a child of God who returned Our love by telling others of the Good News about Me. Remember？ You read in My Book the very first order I gave to Adam and Eve: ‘Be fruitful and multiply！’ I told them to replenish the Earth, not Heaven.

Again I told the Sadducees (who did not believe in a Resurrection) that they ‘knew not the Scriptures’ when they speculated about wives in Heaven. I explained that after resurrection all would be like angels who do not marry nor raise families. Everything in Heaven is created or re-created into perfection！ It is all in My Book. None other is Truth！

Dr. Richard Eby dies, visits heaven, and returns with a startling message

a reply to: Akragon

to appease a blood thirsty tyrant.

yes Death can be just that,,a blood thirsty tyrant.
is failure, too meet the standards of the Law, a result of Death, or is Death the reaper for the Law?

a reply to: Akragon

I'm reminded of that whole take up his cross thing. Still, not their fault being decieved.

Don't mind him. Something about a sharpie and "Disneyland" maybe on his mind.

originally posted by: BobAthome
a reply to: Akragon

to appease a blood thirsty tyrant.

yes Death can be just that,,a blood thirsty tyrant.
is failure, too meet the standards of the Law, a result of Death, or is Death the reaper for the Law?

Death is inevitable in any case...

And I wasn't talking about "death" as the blood thirsty tyrant...

a reply to: BobAthome

Or Satan/Enlil simply masquerading around as the real God. It was said to be his world, here.

The Father, is not who you think he is. They conflict. The New Testament Father has no darkness in him. The Old Testament "God" does.

God never changes. Conflict resolution is needed. One is not God.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: BobAthome
a reply to: Akragon

to appease a blood thirsty tyrant.

yes Death can be just that,,a blood thirsty tyrant.
is failure, too meet the standards of the Law, a result of Death, or is Death the reaper for the Law?

Death is inevitable in any case...

And I wasn't talking about "death" as the blood thirsty tyrant...

Death is inevitable in any case. so then it is a Law by which all must bow too. so i ask who is blood thirsty , one who brings Death or one who brings Life?

a reply to: BobAthome

What law? The ones Moses "received" or the two Jesus gave?

they are certainly not the same...

What do you think Not Authorized has been saying this whole page?

the blood thirsty one is whatever some call "god" in the OT

a reply to: Not Authorized

the real God.
i quote,
"Thus shall ye say unto them,
The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth,
even they shall perish from the earth,
and from under these heavens."

key part "they shall perish",, can a real God "perish". no ,
so because God cannot perish, he sent his only begotten Son.

a reply to: BobAthome

Are you sure? What does Psalm 82 say? Why and how can they perish? Why does he use it against the religious leaders, and calls it their law, not His? Who wrote it, if he didn't?

psalm of Asaph.
1 God presides in the great assembly;
    he renders judgment among the “gods”:
2 “How long will you[a] defend the unjust
    and show partiality to the wicked?
3 Defend the weak and the fatherless;
    uphold the cause of the poor and the oppressed.
4 Rescue the weak and the needy;
    deliver them from the hand of the wicked.
5 “The ‘gods’ know nothing, they understand nothing.
    They walk about in darkness;
    all the foundations of the earth are shaken.
6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”;
    you are all sons of the Most High.’
7 But you will die like mere mortals;
    you will fall like every other ruler.”
8 Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
    for all the nations are your inheritance

72 virgins sounds like a good cause to carry out gods left hand. Although you gotta watch out for the Jinn sometimes.

When you wish for something...Make sure your specific. Or else.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: BobAthome

Another definition for lawlessness? Sure. You can include that if you wish, but it didn't end there. Sin is lawlessness. What is Christ's law? What did he say about it? What warnings did he give?

Well Jesus warned them when talking about the parable of the vineyard.....speaking of His Father dealing with those that cast the son out of the vineyard and killed him. "He shall come and destroy these husbandmen".

"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. Are not two sparrows sold for a cent? And yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from your Father.....So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven".

That's Jesus talking about "OT Blood Thirsty God" as final judge......and Jesus is saying that He will not acknowledge some and that they will be turned over to the father for final dispensation...at His word. In other words if Jesus Himself does not speak up for you in front of the "OT blood thirsty God" you are truly screwed. That's also Jesus acknowledging the power and authority of the Father. And really at Jesus word you will be turned over. So there is really no separating the two, Father/Son here. Its just a pipe dream some of you have.

originally posted by: sacgamer25
a reply to: Logarock

They claimed to be inspired, and when I read the texts my heart says Amen.

You can believe what you like

I am saying that simply as an academic investigation there is about zero comparison with the OT prophets and Buda. Its like a comparison between the players at a major league baseball game and the hotdog salesman in the stands.

a reply to: sacgamer25

I think it is immature and a bit short sighted.

I wouldn't want a virgin... not even 72 of them.

I would rather an experienced man that knows what he is doing.

a reply to: ketsuko

originally posted by: ketsuko
I didn't see a part about there being 72, but I did notice that they would be "untouched" which implies virgin, and they were wives implying that the only worthies there would be men.

I'm not sure that IS what it implies. This was my issue with the "translation" provided in the OP. It relies too much on personal interpretation. I'm not saying I can do better, of course, but at least I don't add my own understanding in brackets.
The passage in question speaks of the 3 groups of people on the day of judgement: Those who believed and did good, those who did evil, and the foremost among those who did good.

Speaking of those among the foremost, the relevant passage says:

Surah al-Waqiah, verses 11-26:
They who were (always) drawn close unto God! In gardens of joy (will they dwell) - a number of those of former and some of later. Reclining on decorated seats, facing one another. Immortal youths will wait upon them with pitchers and cups filled with water from unsullied springs, by which their minds will not be clouded and which will not make them drunk; and with fruit of any kind that they may choose, and with the flesh of any fowl that they may desire. And (with them will be) fair ones with large eyes; like pearls, well-protected.
(And this will be) a reward for what they did. No empty talk will they hear there, nor any call to sin, but only saying peace. Peace.

To be noted, "hour-ain" here, literally translated as "fair ones with large eyes" is a plural that covers both genders. So again, even ignoring the fact that no mention of sex was made here, the narrative of "muslim heaven" where men get their lecherous way while women must serve them or be alone, is absolutely false and absurd.

Insofar as spouses and virginity goes, later on in the same passage, it is written about the righteous:

Surah Al-Waqiah, verse 35
Indeed, We have resurrected them, and have made them youthful (also translated as virgins): Devoted and equals in age.

Aside from the faith vs works thing going on, some are also mentioning how an afterlife of physical pleasure is somehow "base" or "bad". I really don't see how. Unlike in Christianity, Islam believes that people will be bodily resurrected. It is no weirder to me than people imagining they'll be some sort of abstract concept-form that will be idea-melded with God in some unexplainable way that is somehow currently unachievable: to my mind basically that is just a laboratory where the joy centre of your brain gets constant electrical shocks, and you have no other senses or output.