Why Does a Florida County Need Eight $18 Million Helicopters?

a reply to: MrSpad

Except that the Patrick Airforce base wouldn't need to get these helos through the DLA. The 1033 program was designed in specific to transfer military surplus equipment to federal and state agencies for use "supposedly" in counter-drug activities.

So, these 8 helos in particular couldn't be at the Patrick Airforce base, and in part this would be why they need the NASS involved because the Brevard county sheriff office is not equipped to restore and maintain these military helos.

So this does tell us the fact that LEA's are indeed being more and more militarized.

Let me remind you also that NASS stands for "North American Surveillance Systems".

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: Zaphod58
"Military grade gunship", yeah I will pass on letting the cops have those. They can't even seem to have regular old guns without abusing them by shooting dogs and grandmas, not even to get into SWAT screwups of raiding the wrong house and burning babies. This is the US not isreal, I would rather the cops go without, than having to crowdsource 18 million dollar machines against our will.

In one of the articles linked, some of the police said they want to stay ahead of the criminals equipment and they cited only a handful of examples, like Sandy Hook and The North Hollywood Shootout.

How did police ever manage during the 1920's Prohibition Era when Al Capone and his men were running around with Tommy machine guns in America? The American Gangster Era 1920-1938 when the majority of police used a night stick to enforce the law.

I think it is just an excuse to have more toys and to intimidate the citizens of this country thanks to politicians.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: blacktie

Who knows what the police are up to, what Brevard is doing is not excessive given what other police agencies have done, especially when one considers our(Brevard) population and size.

Well I don't blame the police. They will take anything they can get free. I blame the politicians that are giving it to them. The question is what are the politicians up to?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You haven't even proven that they are doing anything with the helicopters. They got the helicopters in 2011, and NASS came in 2014. So they just let the helicopters sit for three years? You're connecting dots where there are no dots.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

They're KEPT at Patrick, because that's the home of the State Department Air Wing. State owns them and maintains them at Patrick, along with their other aircraft.

So since Northrop Grumman just announced a new facility in Florida, they're involved too, right?

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: MrSpad

Except that the Patrick Airforce base wouldn't need to get these helos through the DLA. The 1033 program was designed in specific to transfer military surplus equipment to federal and state agencies for use "supposedly" in counter-drug activities.

So, these 8 helos in particular couldn't be at the Patrick Airforce base, and in part this would be why they need the NASS involved because the Brevard county sheriff office is not equipped to restore and maintain these military helos.

So this does tell us the fact that LEA's are indeed being more and more militarized.

Let me remind you also that NASS stands for "North American Surveillance Systems".

Perhaps you are unaware that the Department of State is a federal agency that gets most of its aircraft from DLA as military surplus and Patrick Airforce Base is its home station. The links I provided make all this very clear. Brevard county does have 3 old military helicopters that they keep running with parts provided by other non working surplus helicopters they recieve. This is all covered in the links I have provided. I have no idea what you are so desperate to tie NASS, one of hundreds of aviation/aerospace companies in Brevard, to all this beyond the fact you like the name.

originally posted by: jacobe001

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: Zaphod58
"Military grade gunship", yeah I will pass on letting the cops have those. They can't even seem to have regular old guns without abusing them by shooting dogs and grandmas, not even to get into SWAT screwups of raiding the wrong house and burning babies. This is the US not isreal, I would rather the cops go without, than having to crowdsource 18 million dollar machines against our will.

In one of the articles linked, some of the police said they want to stay ahead of the criminals equipment and they cited only a handful of examples, like Sandy Hook and The North Hollywood Shootout.

How did police ever manage during the 1920's Prohibition Era when Al Capone and his men were running around with Tommy machine guns in America? The American Gangster Era 1920-1938 when the majority of police used a night stick to enforce the law.

I think it is just an excuse to have more toys and to intimidate the citizens of this country thanks to politicians.

Um the police and the FBI became heavily armed which is why so many famous gansters of the day died in a hail of machine gun fire from the "G-men"

a reply to: MrSpad

Me desperately trying to tie NASS to this? No, but the fact is NASS is seeking people with training in the equipment these military helos have, and their new base of operations is in Brevard Florida where these helos were sent. I am thinking it is you trying too desperately to tie this with Patrick Airforce base. Patrick Airfoce base is mainly a military base and as such they have no need for DLA to transfer military helos to them.

Even if just a small portion of those 13 helos that you state were sent to the Brevard county Sherriff office are in flying condition it means they still need mechanics and technicians with the skills to restore, maintain, and keep those helos they will use in flying condition and that's where NASS fits in.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

So how have they maintained them for the last three years?

There is a lot of helicopter and aviation activity in Florida. The CH-53K is testing there, the Raider will be testing there, as well as a possible depot facility for helicopters.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yes, there is a lot of aviation activity in Florida, but why would NASS be looking for people with top security clearance and experience with skills in avionic ISR systems integration and in airborne ISR ops/maintaining unless they were going to work on military aircraft with ISR systems in them?

BTW, in case you didn't know among some of the professional alliances and associations that NASS has, the airborne law enforcement association is one of them and as their website states they do work with law enforcement agencies.

www.nassusa.net...

As for where were they stored and how were these helos maintained since 2011? I don't know. What I do know is that those helos we see in this link would not be valued by our military at 18 million each.

originally posted by: zysin5
...

No offense to OP, EU keep on digging, you might come up with something hidden here. Not trying to discredit you.
Just sharing the facts as I was given.

I just saw this last part of your post. Didn't take any offense, and why would I? The original value of the helos is at 18,000,000 each as they were valued by our own military when they were first purchased. One of the first things I posted was the following.

........
"The transfer of surplus military equipment to Law Enforcement Agencies (LEA's) were created under the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Years 1990 and 1991. This program is known as the 1033 Program.

When and why was the program created?
Answer: In the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Years 1990 and 1991, Congress authorized the transfer of excess DOD personal property to federal and state agencies for use in counter-drug activities. Congress later passed the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 1997; this act allows all law enforcement agencies to acquire property for bona fide law enforcement purposes that assist in their arrest and apprehension mission. Preference is given to counter-drug and counter-terrorism requests.

What controls does the program have?
Answer: For states to participate in the program, they must each set up a business relationship with DLA through a Memorandum of Agreement (MOA). Each participating state’s governor is required to appoint a State Coordinator to ensure the program is used correctly by the participating law enforcement agencies. The State Coordinators are expected to maintain property accountability records and to investigate any alleged misuse of property, and in certain cases, to report violations of the Memorandum of Agreement to DLA. State Coordinators are aggressive in suspending law enforcement agencies who abuse the program.
...

www.dispositionservices.dla.mil...

Apparently, at least some of the equipment is provided either for free or at a discount, although the LEA's have to pay for shipping and transportation cost."
..........

What I didn't find was how much did the Brevard county had to pay for them, and whether or not they only paid for shipping and transport costs, but thanks to your link we know how much they paid for shipping and transport. The shipping and transport costs were the price tag to get the helos.

BTW, I am also going by what the Detroit Free Press stated, that the items on that database link they gave went to law enforcement agencies.

More than $43 million worth of property has been transferred to law enforcement in Michigan from January 2006 through April 23 of this year. Nationally, more than $4.3 billion worth of property has been transferred to law enforcement since the program’s inception in fiscal year 1997, according to Defense Logistics Agency (DLA), which oversees the Law Enforcement Support Office (or 1033) program out of its office in Battle Creek. More than 8,000 agencies participate nationwide.

• Related: Do police need grenade launchers, other military weapons? Officers say yes

Use this database to see where the military equipment is going by state and county and the type of items being received, The listed value of the items is what it would cost to buy them if they had not been donated.
...

www.freep.com...

(NVM, is late, that price tag given in link was for the MRAP not for the helos)



Here is the price tag for those helos shown

The most recent addition is a UH-1H Huey chopper that arrived in May 2013 and will be used to help in firefighting and rescue operations. Coppola said it cost $2,000, but it needed some work. Replacing the machine's rotor blades and rotor shaft, as well as other maintenance, cost $12,000, Coppola said. To buy retail, he estimated it would have cost closer to $400,000.
...

www.floridatoday.com...

Like I said, our military would not value those helos shown in those pictures at 18 million each.

The UH-1H Huey helo would be more in line to what would be used for med evac and search and rescue ops.

NASS was looking at 1 of 3 locations. They chose Brevard because they are hoping to get contracts from Patrick Airforce Base and the cape. Moder military aircraft. Wich is why they still have to buil thier hangers. They did not wait 3 years to open in Brevard to work on old surplus helicopters that arrive in 2011.

a reply to: MrSpad

Given that Brevard County is home to the Space Center among other assets that are not as public, I can understand why NASS picked this location.

I grew up in Brevard.....

Also, it seems like the surplus helos were oH-58 and they are used to keep the Sheriff's Department fleet flying at minimum cost. A great use of the military surplus program.

Why the small town of West Melbounre needs an MRAP(armored vehicle) is a question that many Brevard residents are asking.

This thread may have inspired Florida Today to write this article:

www.floridatoday.com...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

To buy them AT CURRENT VALUE. The value listed is not current value, it was cost three military paid for them.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

To buy them AT CURRENT VALUE. The value listed is not current value, it was cost three military paid for them.

Now you are making this up. Nowhere do they say "at today's value"... They just stated the value retail would have been $400,000. Which is the value given by the military. They also mentioned that one of the helos was shot down twice in VIETNAM, so I have to wonder where the heck did you get that claim that "the price they gave is today's value"... What is your hurry in trying to dismiss all this info with made up claims that you can't corroborate.

Not to mention that even if you try to buy a similar Huey from this link some of the prices are closer to this range, not to mention that the helos in that ad have all been fixed up which would be the reason for the higher rates.

a reply to: jrod

Please read up the updates. I did state before I even checked that our own military would not value those helos you can see at the Florida today link at 18 million, so it is not possible that ANY of those helos are the ones being listed as having been transferred to the Brevard County Sheriff's office.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

For like the fifth time, the value listed in the database of for a NEW helicopter, and is what the military paid for them. If you were to buy one that had burned through a large part of its life cycle, the value would be down to about the price mentioned, if they were to pay full price, depending on how much of that cycle was left, even if it had been shot down twice. Cost is based on how much life cycle is left. Value as assessed by the DLA is the price of a new aircraft, and going lalalalala and ignoring that every time it is said won't change that.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Please stop being deceptive. I never posted anything close to what you are claiming. After all I am the one who originally linked the Florida Today article to this thread.

You are making assumptions here, they have 3 in flyable condition with a warehouse of extra parts cannibalized off other helos. Do not forget that you mentioned AH-64s in the OP, when they fly the OH-58.....

Where have I stated that Brevard County paid that much for military surplus.

I have posted over and over again that this a cost effective way to keep a fleet of helo's flying.