Why Does a Florida County Need Eight $18 Million Helicopters?

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

You are completely missing this. They aren't PAYING that amount. That is what the MILITARY paid when they bought them new. So no, they can't buy a helicopter for under two million.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I believe you. I am not as well versed on aircraft. I'm just trying to make sense of this thread.

So are they buying them and how many?

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

They got eight. They probably paid a few thousand dollars apiece, and are most likely using them for parts for the ones that they currently have that they use for police work.

Holy Crap
Cook County Illinois, page after page after page of this:

StateAscending County Item Name Quantity UI Value Ship Date
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 6/12/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 6/12/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 6/12/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 6/12/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 6/12/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 6/12/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 6/12/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 6/12/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 6/12/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 6/12/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 6/12/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 6/12/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/14/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/17/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/17/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/17/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/17/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/17/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 7/17/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 9/16/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 9/16/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 9/16/2008
IL COOK RIFLE,5.56 MILLIMETER 1 Each $499.00 9/16/2008

First Prev Page of 34 Next Last

Records 1201-1250 of 1679
Created with Caspio

There are also pages of 7.62 mm to go along with those.
And of course these:
IL COOK SIGHT,REFLEX 1 Each $328.00 9/24/2013
IL COOK SIGHT,REFLEX 1 Each $328.00 9/24/2013
IL COOK SIGHT,REFLEX 1 Each $328.00 9/24/2013
IL COOK SIGHT,REFLEX 1 Each $328.00 9/24/2013

a reply to: Zaphod58

Okay, I spoke to my source who works in the Pasco county Sheriffs office last night. I tried to make post haste on this.
He told me, there is NO way he would put his job at risk, or even remotely allow me an access to any form of paper work.
Pretty much brick walled me on that part of this.

What he did tell me, is that they are being shared cross county, and also being used as back up Medical choppers if there is any state wide emergency. Being in Florida, we deal with lots of hurricanes, and heavy storms. Many choppers have seen better days, and they needed the extra ones ready to go as he said.

He did mention that the state paid no more than 1k-6k for each chopper. Depending on their status, some came dirt cheap he said.

He did however tell me if I wanted to go see them, he would be more than happy to take my on a "field trip" to go and see some of them. He was military AF before he got into the force. He knows the game, and knows how to keep his lips sealed when he has been given orders to. Yet he did not wink or give me any hints he was told to lie about this.

So as it stand I was told from my source they are Worth A LOT of money, but are antiquated choppers and the state/county was able to pretty much in his own words. "steal them" for about 1-6 Grand per chopper.

That is my report as promised.

I will take him up on that field trip next week however.. I will bring pictures and stuff. I am going for a chopper ride. We just need to have the proper forms signed, and get it cleared for a civilian/civil press pass.
He knows I do civil press as a side thing in my life. He wanted to make sure people knew they had nothing to hide.. But on the same hand won't personally release any paper work, or info that is not already posted on state/county pages.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
They probably paid a few thousand dollars apiece, and are most likely using them for parts for the ones that they currently have that they use for police work.

I just read that after I posted.. Dang Zaphod, you where spot on with that post, also used for medical use too, if something really bad happens and they run out of medical air support.

No offense to OP, EU keep on digging, you might come up with something hidden here. Not trying to discredit you.
Just sharing the facts as I was given.

a reply to: zysin5
Good job! Now if he said they were antiquated, that should mean that they are not Apaches shouldn't it. Is the reason that Apaches are thought to be the choppers acquired just from the $18,000,000.00 value when new? I would think Black Hawks would be better for the cops to deal with search and rescue and natural disaster response than gunships. You should accept the offer to go see them and take photos!

EDIT: I see you're going on the mission. Excellent, take lots of photos and let us know what's going on down there!

a reply to: Mikeultra

I have really no real world knowledge of these air ships/choppers. I will bring the pictures.. And the experts can tell me what they see. I will take from outside and inside the cockpit. That way those who know about these things, can see for their selves.
Many of which came right from Mac Dill AF base right here in Tampa bay.

Lots of air traffic where I live. I see them all the time! But not really sure what I am seeing. I am honest that I am clueless when it comes to knowing my aircraft from just "eyeballing" them.

I was told "antiquated" that leads me to believe they are out dated, and the military must have just been upgraded to something better. Or they are just out of date. Not sure. I will report back next week. I will make a new thread, as not to derail this thread. As I am not looking to discredit EU. Just sharing the facts as I am given them.

I just found an article by Googling "helicopters at MacDill AFB". It is about Black Hawks.

Relocating A and F Companies of the 5th Battalion, 159th Aviation Regiment, would bring 23 UH-60 Blackhawk helicopters and upward of 150 personnel to MacDill, creating jobs in Tampa and bolstering the base against efforts to close military installations, according to Rich McClain, executive director of the Tampa Bay Defense Alliance.

tbo.com...

I'm not sure if this is related to the OP or not. Sorry if it's not.

a reply to: Mikeultra

Right now the Army has plans to ax 3-5 Combat Aviation Brigades.

The OH58 Kiowa is being cut from the arsenal as well. Don't be surprised if these birds are either sold off, or given in a stripped down version to police forces.

3-5 CABs is a lot of soldiers. Many are being shown the door as time progresses. Maintaining CABs is a very expensive endeavor for the Army. We're going to be doing a hell of a lot more with less.

You're going to be seeing a lot of CAB components moving around the country in order to better facilitate training and defense coverage over the next few years. They will be piecing out companies, battalions, from remaining Combat Aviation Brigades cover gaps created by the deactivation of the CABs on the chopping block.

a reply to: zysin5

Good deal. It'll be fun to see the pics. If you look at the DLA paperwork, they list OH-58s, OH-6s, and two models of UH-1s as the standard helicopters they offer. The UH-1 entered service in Vietnam, and according to what I found, cost around $15M a copy for the early airframes. Add engine upgrades, and other changes, and they should come in right around $18M.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's what you see. If they're talking about medical evacuations though, there is no way they are Apaches though. They only have positions for two crew members, and unless they sit on the wheels (which has been done), an Apache is useless for anything like that.

a reply to: MrSpad

Except for the fact that the NASS have mechanics that are certified in maintaining and repairing not only the basic system components of these helos, but also the classified equipment. If these helos did not have the classified equipment anymore then it would not be necessary to keep mechanics like this man.

BTW, I am not giving out any secrets, all I am doing is giving out information anyone can use through google.

Anyways, some members are reaching their conclusions by assuming that these helos are just going to be used for parts, and that no classified military equipment would be left in the helos for the LEA's in Florida to use.

However, if that was the case then NASS wouldn't be looking for example for an ISR trainer, or for airborne ISR ops/Maintainer in Florida.

North American Surveillance Systems
7065 Challenger Ave

Titusville, Florida 32780
USA
www.nassusa.net

Aircraft integration. Avionics, electronics and structural, primarily ISR integrations. Some international travel. Military experience preferred.Security clearance a plus.

All major helo and fixed wing manufacturers. All major ISR systems including FLIR, WESCAM, Gyrocam, DRS.
...
Job - Maintenance - ISR Trainer
Abu Dhabi UAE, Florida, International
...
Job - Maintenance - Airborne ISR Ops/Maintainer
Titusville, Florida, International
...

www.jsfirm.com...

What exactly is ISR (Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance )?

...
The target audience for ISR-T is members of the intelligence community or personnel with the appropriate security clearance in any agency with the mission to perform ISR Planning and Synchronization. These will be primarily Army, but include Joint Military Intelligence (MI) service members, civilians, and contractors of active and reserve component, both Army Reserve and National Guard, MI units, and other individuals and units preparing to, or having the potential to be deployed in support of a combat or non-combat operation. The audience is not limited to Army individuals and is to be produced and presented with joint audiences in mind.
...

ict.usc.edu...

NASS wouldn't be looking for people with these skills unless they had helos not only in flying condition but which also do have classified military equipment that would allow them to conduct ISR ops.

Now, remember that the DLA database shows equipment that will be used by LEA's and NASS is able to provide the services needed to conduct maintenance and repairs on helos that do have classified military equipment.

a reply to: Zaphod58

No, they aren't paying 18 million for each helo. However, you are working under the assumption that all, or most of the military classified equipment is gone. I started under the assumption that at least some of them still have all the bells and whistles regarding the classified equipment they came with based on the original value.

If that was all we had to go on then you would be correct that it's most probable that the military classified equipment is gone, except that NASS is actually looking for someone with ISR training, and another person with airborne ISR Ops/maintainer training in Florida. At least some of those helos still have the classified equipment and they will be used for ISR ops. That's not counting the people they already have who do have training and knowledge with not only with basic helo equipment, but also with classified military equipment.

Helos classified for ISR ops cannot be used for medical support.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

So now you know better than the people in the department that has them. Wow, that's good to know.

I'm going to listen to them a lot faster than I'm going to listen to you, especially since the military is not going to give classified systems to people that don't have clearance for them. That completely defeats the purpose of having classified systems.

a reply to: Zaphod58

So do tell me, since when is intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance needed for medic evac?

a reply to: zysin5

Even if your spouse gets you permission to visit and take pictures you won't be allowed to do that to any military classified equipment, and sorry to tell you but your husband will not tell you either even if he knew.

You know what they would tell us to tell our wives or girlfriends about our jobs in aviation warfare? "Honey, I am sorry but if I told you I would have to kill you."

I am not saying your husband would tell you this, but for sure he will not get you in trouble, or get himself in trouble by showing you something he simply can't show you if he actually knew anything about it.

a reply to: zysin5

BTW zysin5, besides what I have mentioned above the Pasco county Sheriffs office is not keeping these helos on their premisses. These helos will be maintained and repaired by NASS employees with top security clearance, and the helos will be kept on site at NASS facilities until needed for LEA's ISR ops in Florida.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

And what ISR equipment do they have on these helicopters? You know everything about them right? The fact that they only list them as helicopters with a value of $18M tips you every detail about them huh.

Even if they DID have ISR gear on board, they aren't set up for purely medevac. That's an as necessary mission.

And so the mystery is solved. I called a bubba of mine at the Pentagon as asked why has Brevard county been getting so many surplus helicopters. Turns out Patrick Airforce Base in Brevard County is home to the Department of States Airwing. What is that you ask?

State Department Air

Q: What is the Department of State’s Air Wing?
A: In the mid-1980s, an Air Wing was established within the Department of State and is overseen by INL for the purpose of conducting aerial eradication and interdiction operations in drug-producing countries under bilateral agreements. Since its inception the Air Wing has expanded beyond counter narcotics and also supports Embassies in high threat areas with passenger and cargo movements where commercial aviation is not secure. The Air Wing provides aviation expertise and resources for:

Reconnaissance and surveillance operations.
Command and Control for counter-narcotics operations.
Interdiction operations.
Logistical support.
Medical Evacuation (MEDEVAC).
Personnel and cargo movement by air.
Aerial eradication of drug crops (currently only in Colombia).


Q: Where is the Air Wing located?
A: The headquarters of the State Department Air Wing (officially the Office of Aviation) is located at Patrick Air Force Base, Florida. The Air Wing currently conducts operations in Afghanistan, Colombia, Iraq, Pakistan, and Peru.

Q: How many and what types of aircraft are in the fleet?
A: The Air Wing has approximately 176 active aircraft in its fleet, including approximately 137 helicopters.

Almost the entire fleet is military surplus, including a bunch they got in 2011 Dept of State Helicopter Database

U.S. Department of Defense's 1033 program is listed in public records by the county where the items were delivered, but not the specific local, state, or federal law enforcement agencies that acquired them.

The Brevard Sheriffs office has recieved

Miltary Police?

BREVARD COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE
About 960 items, including:
- 271 guns
- 299 different ball and roller bearings
- 116 pairs of boots
- 13 helicopters (not all are fit for flight)

I guess sometimes it just takes a phone call.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Well, you do have to look at what NASS is looking for which includes people with skills in avionics ISR integration, and it's a plus if the people they are hiring have security clearance. This means they will either hire people already with security clearance to work on ISR integration equipment for airborne law enforcement, or those people they hire will have to get the security clearance needed to work on the equipment or to provide training.

ISR is for intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance, not for search and rescue. Although some ISR equipment "could' be used for search and rescue what NASS is looking for in specific is for people with skills in avionic ISR systems integration and in airborne ISR ops/maintaining.

These helos are not to be used for search and rescue but to be used for intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance ops.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Even if your spouse gets you permission to visit and take pictures you won't be allowed to do that to any military classified equipment, and sorry to tell you but your husband will not tell you either even if he knew.

Yep, which I stated in my post. He brick walled me on that point. But was nice enough to offer me a civil press pass to take a look around. And they are not being kept in pasco county, however Pasco under emergency powers could make use of them. I am sure when I go, I will be shown what everyone else gets to see. They are not going to allow a civil press agent, into anything classified. I am not naive to that point. But never hurts to ask.

There was always that 1% chance he would have been a whistler blower, and I could have done something worth while with my writing career. As I was in here to support your OP, but by treating me in that condescending tone, not sure if I want to bother at this point. To many assumptions on your part. I will bow out respectfully. Anything I would bring to the table would just be seen as a cover up. Not playing into that hand, sorry.