The Gulf Breeze Saga (Part II) : UFOs, the Gulf Breeze 6, and the End of the World

Thanks for the welcome, guys. I appreciate it.

GUT, I think you and others make valuable posts and contributions. Much food for thought, and I'm glad my stuff has been helpful.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: The GUT

The problem with affording these guys the omnipotence of puppetmasters is the disconnect between real world events and the creative speculation. Waterboarding for example? If a prisoner was thought to have valuable information, why waterboard them? Why not use the technology of MC?

Worthy questions, Kandinsky. I don't claim to have all the answers, but in the event you haven't checked it out, I explored some of that in a post titled, 'Psy Ops and Mind Control: Then, Now and the UFO Community'.

Basically, there are some potentially very interesting connections documented by various investigative journalists between IC projects of interest (via declassified docs and similar sources). I am confident the UFO community could learn a lot of relevant context from following some of the IC-watchdog journos in proportion to absorbing info published by ufologists.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: The GUT

The research possibly continued in the same way extraordinary rendition side-stepped domestic and international laws against torture. The question is how successful has it been?

That's indeed one of the relevant questions. Others would include what the unintentional byproducts of the 'research' may have been. I'm confident we have pretty good ideas what they would be told if unwitting research subjects wandered into pro-ETH circles relating their experiences of missing time (short term amnesia) and unexplained body markings. For instance, MKULTRA project personnel did not have to intend to create the Unabomber for the circumstances to have nonetheless occurred. I think it's pretty apparent the UFO community has manufactured a few alien abductees, be it by design or negligence, so one relevant question would be if any of them are former involuntary research subjects.

Another important question - that requires much less speculation - is why so many of the IC personnel contradict one another on such matters. They also cultivate the very conspiracy they at other times claim to oppose, as GUT showed us in the Weinberger interview. Read more at 'Influence of the Intelligence Community in Ufology'.

That's certainly a prevailing issue. The very people who claim to be in positions to offer us insider info and clarity are in actuality contradicting one another, and sometimes themselves. I think that's relevant in and of itself.

a reply to: jjflash

hello Jack, that was a thoughtful post and the 'influence' article is an excellent example of your research. Although I was aware of that history, the link to the case in Poland was certainly news to me.

In my earlier post, I was seeking to point out the disparities between what we know and what we think we know...or suspect. There's little doubt that the business of gathering intelligence continues to be a murky business and ethics are something for other people to worry about. At the same time, I can appreciate the mind-set that deems ethics a luxury when they have a focus on serious threats to national security.

In that spirit, the gloves are off and anything goes. That, no doubt, extends to letting your opponents believe you have powers that exceed reality. Passing rumours through the media or allowing the UFO and conspiracy community to act like useful idiots is a credible practice. The recent murmurings of Intel being allowed to use propaganda on (or against) civilians strikes me as crying over spilt milk. These are strategies that have been around for centuries and continue unabated regardless of legislation - Poland being a pertinent example.

Regarding the Polish case, we see that rendition was used and procedures that are, by definition, torture. However, the detail of threatening detainees with power drills is what I was mulling over. It's not in the same ballpark as the concept that MC is at a stage of full control of someone's thoughts. There's an idea in the field that Intel can implant memories, create whole-sale scenarios and orchestrate events with panache. These known, current incidents suggest otherwise.

Another important question - that requires much less speculation - is why so many of the IC personnel contradict one another on such matters. They also cultivate the very conspiracy they at other times claim to oppose, as GUT showed us in the Weinberger interview.[...]I think that's relevant in and of itself.

These disparities interest me and they potentially represent circumstantial evidence of the propaganda being disseminated into the public consciousness. Exagerated abilities are a powerful tool in creating fear, respect and indecision amongst rivals, enemies and allies - classic psyops.

I'm getting long-winded here and I apologise; it's tough trying to condense years of reading and thinking into these threads whilst suspending judgement and remaining neutral. Have a look at this page from the well-known 1950 RAND document, 'The Exploitation of Superstitions for Purposes of Psychological Warfare.'



It looks like a road-map for subsequent mischief involving cases like the GB6. Are sub-cultures being influenced by the ideas listed in that page being injected and actually staged? We're all agreed that some of the proponents of these beliefs are associated with various offices of intelligence. Are they using people with 'susceptibility to such non-rational appeals' as an ongoing social experiment? Who knows?

Funnily enough, there's evidence of smoke and mirrors within that document that suggests the author knew it would reach a wider audience.

Thanks, Kandinsky. I agree with your observations and what you draw from them. To the extent I was headed to some of the same points in my last post. To continue a bit...

We could cite many declassified docs that claim the reality of successful mind control type ventures. Just off the top of my head, I'd invite consideration of a 1954 CIA doc titled, 'Hypnotic Experimentation and Research'. That's the one where they claimed a woman was hypnotically led to shoot another woman - in which she didn't know the gun was not loaded - and reportedly had no conscious recall of the event after the fact.

And there was the 1951 doc in which Agency researchers claimed to successfully induce post-hypnotic suggestions by telephone via code words. There are of course many more such docs.

As you suggested, Kandinsky, such circumstances present researchers with some relevant questions. If the reported experiments and results were accurate, many questions are self-evident. And if the info contained in the docs are not accurate, we might ask why they were ever created. Were they intended to be leaked?, for example.

I recall reading a paper by CIA consultant and hypnosis expert Dr. Martin Orne in which he explained that persuading someone to do something while hypnotized is not entirely different than persuading someone not hypnotized in that circumstances must be framed in manners the individual deems justify the request. Kind of interesting, but perhaps more interesting is that the Agency tells us the projects were a bust - but released documents suggesting rather incredible results. We would be justified in questioning what such circumstances indicate.

So I think you are on the right track, K, in asking what the seeming disconnect tells us about not only the evolution of such research, but also the UFO community and its many contradictions as I was pointing out. Just as we can cite doc after doc that suggests conflicting reports of what did and did not occur during such projects as MKULTRA and ARTICHOKE, we can observe similar contradictions among current and former IC members who became regulars around UFO circles.

Stubblebine, Alexander, Buchanan, Jones - the list goes on. But here's where I'm headed with all this and what it might ultimately tell us about all of our expectations, or lack thereof, of the UFO community: Why don't we collectively, as a community, hold these people more accountable for not getting on the same stage at the same time?

Alexander, for instance, has repeatedly claimed to find no evidence of a cover-up or related circumstances. Buchanan, who Alexander knew personally, claims quite the cover-up. Stubblebine is an outright raging conspiracy theorist. Etc., etc., etc.

So is it that we, as a community, never really expected these men (or anybody else with a good story) to confront one another and discuss the discrepancies? Is it that we think it's mostly a bunch of BS we fear will become evident if we start requiring accountability and accurate source-citing?

And if that is the case and is what the collective UFO community thinks about aliens, conspiracies and cover-ups, does that mean the majority would rather keep it all on a superficial level of entertainment, anyway, and never really get to the messy truth?

It often seems so, at least from my vantage point.

Of interest with regards to what technology is available, I would thoroughly recommend 'The Controllers'

www.constitution.org...

Perhaps the most interesting pieces of evidence surrounding the abduction phenomenon are the intracerebral implants allegedly visible in the X-rays and MRI scans of many abductees.23 Indeed, abductees often describe operations in which needles are inserted into the brain; more frequently still, they report implantation of foreign objects through the sinus cavities. Many abduction specialists assume that these intracranial incursions must be the handiwork of scientists from the stars. Unfortunately, these researchers have failed to familiarize themselves with certain little-heralded advances in terrestrial technology.

The abductees' implants strongly suggest a technological lineage which can be traced to a device known as a "stimoceiver," invented in the late '50s-early '60s by a neuroscientist named Jose Delgado. The stimoceiver is a miniature depth electrode which can receive and transmit electronic signals over FM radio waves. By stimulating a correctly-positioned stimoceiver, an outside operator can wield a surprising degree of control over the subject's responses.

The most famous example of the stimoceiver in action occurred in a Madrid bull ring. Delgado "wired" the bull before stepping into the ring, entirely unprotected. Furious for gore, the bull charged toward the doctor - then stopped, just before reaching him. The technician-turned-toreador had halted the animal by simply pushing a button on a black box, held in the hand.24

Also this;

In a fascinating series of experiments, Delgado attached the stimoceiver to the tympanic membrane, thereby transforming the ear into a sort of microphone. An assistant would whisper "How are you?" into the ear of a suitably "fixed" cat, and Delgado could hear the words over a loudspeaker in the next room. The application of this technology to the spy trade should be readily apparent. According to Victor Marchetti, The Agency once attempted a highly-sophisticated extension of this basic idea, in which radio implants were attached to a cat's cochlea, to facilitate the pinpointing of specific conversations, freed from extraneous surrounding noises.31 Such "advances" exacerbate the already-imposing level of Twentieth-Century paranoia: Not only can our phones be tapped and mail checked, but even tabby may be spying on us!

There's a wealth of information in this document. Regarding MK-Ultra

One of the primary goals of BLUEBIRD, ARTICHOKE, and MKULTRA was to determine whether mind control could be used to faciliate "executive action" - i.e., assassination.

Could people be 'programmed' to kill?

Looking at the assassination of JFK, RFK, and MLK (and perhaps the John Lennon, as well as the attempt on Reagan), it seems that elements of MK-Ultra are not too far away. Look at the doodles of Sirhan Sirhan for further weirdness.



Whatever the scenario with the GB6, mind control/MK-Ultra style ops seems certainly plausible.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
The problem with affording these guys the omnipotence of puppetmasters is the disconnect between real world events and the creative speculation. Waterboarding for example? If a prisoner was thought to have valuable information, why waterboard them? Why not use the technology of MC?

That would be God-complex not omnipotent, Kandinsky.

There's little doubt that the business of gathering intelligence continues to be a murky business and ethics are something for other people to worry about. At the same time, I can appreciate the mind-set that deems ethics a luxury when they have a focus on serious threats to national security.

That's been one of the personally more fascinating aspects when looking at MK. That is getting glimpses here and there of the moral decline of some of the players and the arguments that were internally adopted to justify their cold brutality. A real life Picture of Dorian Gray! Some "good," even great, men, slowly warped, some already sociopaths who've just been given the ultimate get out of jail free card and gifted with some hi-tech sadomasochistic toys. Much scholarly work has been done on the "cult of intelligence."

Sure MK found out '___' was generally strategically useless. But the umbrella projects were much further-ranging and encompass an impressively wide-range of disciplines, no? There are other techniques, btw, more conducive to and known to be enhanced by certain drugs. You don't suppose they didn't learn nuthin' at all and just abandoned the search do ya?

The kind of techniques I'm pondering probably aren't suited for, nor aimed at, simple interrogation. More to do with the behavioral aspects of the human mind both separately and in groups. Maybe even no general need for drugs. I'd be giving guys like Bergdahl the eye, not the shell-shocked Desert Porn naked guy in cell 9---if I have to use war as an example. Or, some of the prisoners we sent back in exchange, ahem. That would be harder, though, I imagine. I think the evidence suggests "doable" though.

No need to think so big, however, as it's easy to imagine the operational usefulness of a group of human-use subjects--say the Remote Viewrs--being subjected to a mix of deep hypnosis both self and external, sensory isolation, Technology aided OBEs, initiation techniques, Scientology derived remote viewing sometimes aided by Dr. Michael Persinger's "God-Helmet" technology and possibly some laser shenanigans from Hal Puthoff and the recurrent subject of "alternate history" themes, etc.

So, when more intelligence cadre like Vance Davis & Beason come along fully believing they are tied into the "force" and making Dames-style predictions UFOs included, in addition to also allegedly being taught alternate history then, yeah, I'm taking a look at that.

Agreed that one aspect of the RV programs was most likely an attempt to fool/intimidate the Russians. Which makes it even more remarkable as a case for mind-control research. Because whether aforethought, or after, the RVers unquestionably became test subjects in depth psychology and human consciousness issues, and many of them continue to exhibit some kind of new age PTSD that we've seen more than a few times when intelligence cadre, phenomenology, and the scientific intel community meet.

Dr. Jolyon West & Tusko

What kind of goals are still being pursued? For a quick and possibly pertinent example, Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green with direct lineage to Sydney Gottlieb to later include Gottlieb's comparable position in the CIA, the Early RV programs (partially funded by MK-honcho Gottlieb) and cutting-edge brain-zapping neuroscience; Dr. Green also being a colleague and friend of Dr. Jolyon West (Gawrsh yes, poor Tusko the elephant, Kandinsky, I shudder!) is active to this day in a multi-disciplinary panel that includes the study of…well…they themselves say mind control, not me, jus' saying'! (bolding mine):

...Other questions raised by controlling the mind: How can we make people trust us more? What if we could help the brain to remove fear or pain? Is there a way to make the enemy obey our commands?

...There is little doubt that great progress has been made over the last quarter century, particularly the last 10 to 15 years, in understanding the physiological and neural bases for psychological processes and behavior. Furthermore, there is a high likelihood that more progress will be made as more sophisticated theoretical models are developed and tested using ever more sophisticated assessment technology.

Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green

And a hint of just how complex ,advanced, interrelated, inclusive, and comprehensive the "cognitive arts" are:

The label “cognitive” in the title and elsewhere in this report is used in the broad sense. Unless otherwise noted, it refers to the cognitive sciences in general and comprises psychological and physiological processes underlying human information processing, emotion, motivation, social influence, and development. It includes contributions from all directly related disciplines, including the behavioral and social sciences, neurogenetics, proteomics, philosophy, mathematics, computer science, and linguistics.

Did someone mention abductions? Past lives/alternate history type stuff?



True and False Memories as an Illustrative Case of the Difficulty of Developing Accurate and Practical Neurophysiological Indexes of Psychological States

An important issue for cognitive neuroscientists concerns efforts to determine whether a person is reporting a true experience or one that is false but believed. In the last decade, there have been innumerable research efforts designed to distinguish true from false memories. Earlier work examining behavioral differences between true and false memories revealed that group differences were sometimes found (for example, more sensory details in true-memory reports) (Schooler et al., 1986). However, the statistical group differences did not enable reliable classification of any particular memory report as to its authenticity...

Excerpts from TIGER Study - Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green - Chair

I was surprised when my search for answers to many of the great modern ufo cases would frequently point to factions of the intelligence community actively promoting ET mythology.

Stranger still were the undeniable connections to many of the programs and persons documented in various programs we lump under the MK-Ultra umbrella including it's predecessors like Artichoke and Bluebird. I was looking for E.T. or I.D. and M.C. kept coming up.

I dreaded digging through the muck and disinfo and craziness of the MK angle, but I knew it was time. I knew that my criteria was simple: I was looking specifically for that which was documented. I was surprised yet again as the realization hit me that the programs and techniques and impetus of all that is "mind-control" and "mass manipulation techniques" and psyops and alphabets cia-nsa-afosi-u-name-it seemed to have blended or at least cross-contaminated.

But back to "documentation." For example, I could easily ignore the Kathy Sullivan (Is that her name?) presidential model stuff, and still be stunned to read, in either a Bluebird or Artichoke FOIA, how some hypnotist (possibly Stage Magician & CIA trainer/operative John Mulholland?) bragged to his young male subject (and hypnosis student) how he had used hypnotism to seduce many women including underage girls.

After tweaking the lads freak in that powerful, subliminal, libido-twerking way, the handler/hypnotist then put the boy under and reportedly got him to subsequently exhibit some phenomena bordering on PK. Other documentation showed the willingness to hypnotize and program a young lady to seduce a target and other sundry and despicable things.

The actual documentation that survived is more shocking than most folk seem to realize. A study of some of the MK characters past (and those still today working some of the same documented "studies" and/or technologies like our Dr. Green/TIGER example) sometimes gives sobering insight into how many were seduced by the impunity, power, and scientific carte blanche of the intelligence fraternity.

I came to seriously doubt that the destruction of the MK-Umbrella documents by then CIA chief Richard Helms followed by Dr. Sydney Gottlieb's feeble assertion before Congressional investigation that not much of value was learned meant the end of "mind-control."

And of course my criteria demanded I read--and take notes of--the stupendously documented, essential, and mind-blowing The Search for the Manchurian Candidate The CIA and Mind Control by John Marks(PDF)



Speaking of CIA Magician John Mulholland, you know, the guy the CIA took poor Frank Olson to for a little hypnosis session right before he was most probably suicided? And with Jack making mention of how MK-Ultra lesson and techniques have filtered through the intelligence communities; The following slide is from the Snowden leaked The Art of Deception: Training for a New Generation of Online Covert Operations
and a real tip o' the hat to the literal legacy of MK-ULTRA. Oh, looky, there's a salute to John Mulholland.

While in New York, Olson also met with John Mullholland, a CIA-employed magician. When Mullholland attempted to hypnotize Olson, the latter grew upset. He pleaded with them all to “just let me disappear.” ...The CIA had an entirely different trick up its sleeve and shortly thereafter, Frank Olson plunged to his death from his hotel window.

morallowground.com...

So, I found researchers like Greg Bishop and Nick Redfern and Jack Brewer and Philip Coppens (and more I should be mentioning) were on to something and were researching and collating a pretty damning indictment on a laundry list of UFO/Intel/Psyops related subjects. The impressive work of former MUFON Director James Carrion especially as relates to ColdWarUFOs and his observations on the state of ufology is, imo, another essential.

Me, I'm just a passionate armchair researcher. I've become convinced that the goals and "technologies" of the MK-Umbrellas are extant today. Once I personally determined that the above statement was a reasonable working conclusion, then more than a few of the modern UFO era mysteries finally have a burgeoning thesis that fits surprisingly snug and has impressive explanatory power.

Of course, no one theory applies to all cases, but as an overlay, the Psyops/UFO arena has a lot of contours that consistently match up to the landscape of the modern era from the scattered & mist-shrouded remains of the distant Roswell plain and pretty much to this day.

originally posted by: jjflash

Stubblebine, Alexander, Buchanan, Jones - the list goes on. But here's where I'm headed with all this and what it might ultimately tell us about all of our expectations, or lack thereof, of the UFO community: Why don't we collectively, as a community, hold these people more accountable for not getting on the same stage at the same time?

i spent a couple of hours looking into the ama threads here. the kind of contradictions you and kandinsky point out become real #ing apparent when you crush 'em back to back. ok, well, just because they all work together doesn't mean they all have to hold the same opinions, right?

fair enough, but looking at their counterparts in the civilian ufological community, we see how those differences of opinion normally play out. fringe researchers tend to be a territorial breed, prone to sniping at other researchers, and not slow to punch as many holes as possible in one another's work.

compare this to the restraint, the absolute avoidance, exhibited by the military-sponsored ufologists when confronted with questions pertaining to their colleagues. they absolutely recuse themselves from making any criticism, any comment whatsoever beyond a boilerplate statement about friendship and mutual admiration.

that right there, along with some of the same contradictions being reflected in the documents available to the public means these contradictions are intentionally embedded in the military's stance of ufo activity.

And if that is the case and is what the collective UFO community thinks about aliens, conspiracies and cover-ups, does that mean the majority would rather keep it all on a superficial level of entertainment, anyway, and never really get to the messy truth?

the history channel crowd wants entertainment, and experts with military credentials fit comfortably into the x-files/stargate template that frames their expectations. while the contradictions are glaring in print, when expressed through the medium of cable tv they tend to be so subtle, most won't even notice it. but the net effect might be to keep viewers in a perpetual state of uncertainty about the subject.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: jjflash

Regarding the Polish case, we see that rendition was used and procedures that are, by definition, torture. However, the detail of threatening detainees with power drills is what I was mulling over. It's not in the same ballpark as the concept that MC is at a stage of full control of someone's thoughts. There's an idea in the field that Intel can implant memories, create whole-sale scenarios and orchestrate events with panache. These known, current incidents suggest otherwise.

if intelligence agencies were deliberately seeding rumors of success in their mk-ultra program to put the fear in the russians, then the entire program was at least partially about sending a message.

maybe # like powerdrills and waterboarding was deliberately selected because they wanted to send a different type of message, put the fear into a different kind of enemy.

either way, i agree with cuckooold, i think the mkultra program did enjoy some success. but the process of psychologically breaking and remolding someone would be very resource and time intensive, and carries a great risk of exposure and unabomber-type fallout.

I don't know the intricate details of the MK programs like others on here. Although I am familiar with some of the names being mentioned. It is strange how there is a huge crossover into Ufology state-side. Something which is not so apparent this side of the Atlantic. Well except when the Americans get involved!

It's still difficult to know what to make of all of this. It could be we are looking for more than there really was to this case ? Perhaps it was simply a bunch of nut cases who lost the plot and deserted to save the world (in their minds). The military then tried to keep things as quiet as possible to avoid embarrassing themselves.

But reading between the lines it's likely that some people are more susceptible to 'methods of control' than others (as are some with hypnotism) and that this group (GB6) were guinea pigs for something.

But I really don't know for sure.

However I have enjoyed the mystery surrounding the case, doing a bit of digging myself, and the attempts to unravel it by the gang participating in the thread.

Great thread and I have a feeling there may be still more to come.

originally posted by: cuckooold

Of interest with regards to what technology is available, I would thoroughly recommend 'The Controllers'

That's a must read, IMO. Martin Cannon did some extremely interesting work. Thanks for bringing it up.

originally posted by: The GUT

I was surprised when my search for answers to many of the great modern ufo cases would frequently point to factions of the intelligence community actively promoting ET mythology.

I can understand that, and thanks for more informative and interesting posts. There's no getting around it... The IC has been neck deep in alleged ET stories since the outset of the modern UFO era. I'm currently reading George Hansen's 'The Trickster and the Paranormal', and he has a chapter on gov disinfo in which he stated that it is truly remarkable how widely that factor is ignored.

It really is.

originally posted by: The GUT

Of course, no one theory applies to all cases, but as an overlay, the Psyops/UFO arena has a lot of contours that consistently match up to the landscape of the modern era from the scattered & mist-shrouded remains of the distant Roswell plain and pretty much to this day.

Agreed. Further research is certainly justified, particularly on a specific case to case basis.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and insights, ATODASO and mirageman.

I appreciate all of your contributions.

originally posted by: jjflash
...There's no getting around it... The IC has been neck deep in alleged ET stories since the outset of the modern UFO era. I'm currently reading George Hansen's 'The Trickster and the Paranormal', and he has a chapter on gov disinfo in which he stated that it is truly remarkable how widely that factor is ignored.

It really is.

Yeah, The Trickster & the Paranormal. Epic, original, and an immediate and legitimate classic in it's field, imo. That field now enlarged by Hansen's syncretic framework of disciplines and philosophies ancient to modern.

It's also an interesting consideration when looking at cases where the psyops trickster sometimes seemingly meets the phenomenological trickster and high-strangeness ensues. Hansen is a similar example to the point you make in your piece UFO Tunnel Vision about Carrion and the other Cold War researchers. Those that understand the strategies of operational deception have tremendously valuable insight into this arena of research. Those that understand all of the above, and the shaman, too, maybe even more exceptionally so. Like Hansen.

...I learned something I think is important yet widely eludes the average UFO enthusiast: Researchers within genres that overlap with ufology, such as the Cold War and conspiracies of historical significance, tend to hold much more complete and accurate perspectives of the IC – and its specific players – than do their ufology counterparts. People who research and write about Cold War secrets often demonstrate thorough understandings of complex dynamics involving members of the IC who played roles in ufology. Such researchers tend to understand the potential relevance of such circumstances more than seems to be the case among members of the UFO community.

Ufologists (who fail to account for Cold War relevance), if they broach the subject of the IC at all, tend to focus on relatively trivial and often hypothetical circumstances, as compared to forming wider and more practical contexts. Many of them seemingly automatically and prematurely equate the IC activity in ufology with confirmation of an alien presence. Seldom are deeper implications and evolving objectives of intelligence agencies from one era to the next taken into account. The UFO community and its researchers rarely consider the overall careers of intelligence officers who moonlight as ufologists, as compared to focusing virtually solely upon their UFO-related activities. All of that is the case in spite of the wide availability of factual material that could provide deeper insight. To ignore such material is detrimental to accurate reporting and counterproductive to identifying truth.

UFO Tunnel Vision

Amen to that, brother.

George P., as you know, was one of the researcher/authors of the paper A Critique of Budd Hopkins' Case of the UFO Abduction of Linda Napolitano

Here's a Fortean Times article by Mark Pilkington for anyone interested in learning more about George P. Hansen:

On the Trail of the Trickster

originally posted by: ATODASO
a reply to: mirageman




saviors from space is a pretty common meme, but space jesus? a very specific crowd is being appealed to. and how is #ing around with a spirits and psychics and weejee boards at all consistent with bible belt christian values?

It's the same motif that appears in the Dorothy Martin case.

She was channeling an ET or entity from another planet named Sananda who claimed to be jesus, who would return in a flying saucer to save the cult members from a cataclysmic global flood on 21st December.

You probably heard about it but here's a link

en.wikipedia.org...


I think it's also interesting that there are parallels with this GB6 case to Keel's 'Mothman Prophecies' with the prediction of a tragedy including a specific prediction of the number of casualties.

I've been slowly working through checking out links to individuals involved in the GB6 incident. I came across this piece about William Setterberg on google news;

news.google.com...

Not a lot that hasn't already been covered, but it certainly correlates with information hellboyz has given us, regarding the upgrade to an honourable discharge.

I also found reference to one Michael Hueckstaedt working as a Deputy Patrol Officer somewhere in Wyoming, and a comment by a person of that name, on a page about hostage negotiations.

www.hostagenegotiation.com...

It seems an uncommon name, although I don't know if they are one and the same.

As for Kris Perlock, amusingly enough, there is someone of the same name working as a 'Bigfoot Investigator'. I wonder if it's the same Kris Perlock?

I found George Hansen's mention here not long after the mention of magicians ironic. If you read and listen to the many interviews I've done with George (who's become somewhat of a mentor to me) you'll see the connection to the paranormal and magicians. It's fascinating.

I have to admit I have not read this entire thread, and I'm not able to really comment on the Gulf Breeze 6. Very little is actually known about them, their actions and motives - but I think it's a good bet there was some psychological manipulation going on, possibly through psychotronic weapons or chemical agents. I believe there's also a component in the Rendlesham case to that effect as well.

But it doesn't account for everything - nothing ever does.

I'm very happy to see Hansen's work being read here - George will make anyone's peception of the paranormal take a hard turn towards recognizing what surrounds a paranormal event - and not focus so intently on what the event is. This is critical, and will change your entire ontology of the paranormal. Put into practice what Hansen says to loom for, and I'm confident as hell you'll see exactly what I have - and it'll blow your mind.

JR

originally posted by: cuckooold
I've been slowly working through checking out links to individuals involved in the GB6 incident. I came across this piece about William Setterberg on google news;

news.google.com...

Good find. Woah, hold on, maybe it's just me, but Setterberg comes across as sincere and guileless. I realize the article is brief, and folk lie, but if the kid was straight-shooting then he himself was surprised by the end of the world stuff. Were that to be true, it is very interesting and probably pertinent. It doesn't seem to make sense though in light of other information (the reported writings left behind, the witnesses that said they were talking about TEOTW, etc.)

I also found reference to one Michael Hueckstaedt working as a Deputy Patrol Officer somewhere in Wyoming, and a comment by a person of that name, on a page about hostage negotiations...It seems an uncommon name, although I don't know if they are one and the same.

As for Kris Perlock, amusingly enough, there is someone of the same name working as a 'Bigfoot Investigator'. I wonder if it's the same Kris Perlock?

Kris Perlock seems even more uncommon to me with the "Kris" spelling. And a Bigfoot Hunter, too! You might have found him, cuckooold, and if you did this story only keeps getting more interesting.

hey guys, what are the odds user "vance" from cocoa beach florida is our boy?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: ATODASO
Caught my attention, too...

a reply to: The GUT

I haven' t been keeping up with this thread, but I find it interesting, Gut, in every thread I encounter you, you link us to the concept and real methodology of The Trickster. …. Just interesting, in that, perhaps, that's sort of your M.O., as well.

I often wonder at your starting that Jaques Valles Control Loop thread, and recently Bybyots was saying "Elvis has Left the Bulding," as you'd started the thread and as it got along to 125 pgs, hadn't been seen to visit since about maybe pg. 101??!! Just a joke, really.

Wouldn't that be something, really, if that was the GB6 Vance?
I'm waiting to see his reply, as to that.
tetra

originally posted by: ATODASO
hey guys, what are the odds user "vance" from cocoa beach florida is our boy?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Very interesting.

I missed this one, so good eyes ATODASO.

Be keeping my own eyes out for a response.

a reply to: cuckooold

you might be waiting a while. it would be a piece of cake to resurrect an old account and stir up some more # around roswell. hardly matters if it is vance or not.