Mike Brown may have paid for cigars, the storeowners never called 911.

The relevance of the call is that the call that may or not have happened is the reason the confrontation between the officer and Brown happened.

It was triggered by the fact the two were walking in the street. One may argue that it escalated because of the theft but whether Mike knew of a report or not doesn't mean he might not have thought one was made which fueled his actions. He could have also done what he did because that's his attitude, using force to get his way.

originally posted by: Doodle19815
Does anyone know when the tapes were collected? I can't find that info anywhere.

Yes....it was collected the day of the shooting according to the attorney for the store the robbery occurred in.

Jay Kanzler, a lawyer for the owner, who was not named, told reporters that it was a customer, not a member of staff, who called police last Saturday. He said the store had been part of the community for many years and knew many customers by name – but not Brown.

Kanzler gave no details of the robbery and attempted to distance the store from the aftermath. He declined to say if staff even considered the incident a robbery.

“Another customer called the police. My clients were served with a warrant for the video and hard drives and will comply because they have to,” he said.

Ferguson police collected video footage last Saturday, said the lawyer. He did not know if St Louis County police would obtain additional material via the warrant. He said the store staff would make no statement and asked the media to leave them alone.”My clients have nothing to do with this investigation.”

Source

Vic, you are just picking and choosing nonfacts to support your own opinion of what happened. You are accepting the account of anonymous sources yet discounting the statement of Brown's own friend and the video that substantiates his account.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Vasa Croe

The town itself is not a nice town in general. Plenty of crime goes on there, and just like most crime ridden areas, there is a code of silence or something will happen to you.

how many nice towns are there in the U.S where this kind of thing does not happen ?

The one that I grew up in was that way... and still is.

so where do you get this knowledge from then since you grew up in such a nice town ...?

do you have first hand knowledge of this or did you watch it on TV ?

I have lived in more than one place in my life.
I have traveled.
I am not 18 years old, so I have lived in more than one town and more than one state.

so you can personally vouch to the fact that living in a town that is not so nice if you witness a crime and speak out your life is in danger ?

When did you ask that of me?

ok...it is simple... you said and i quote :

The town itself is not a nice town in general. Plenty of crime goes on there, and just like most crime ridden areas, there is a code of silence or something will happen to you.

I have lived in more than one place in my life. I have traveled. I am not 18 years old, so I have lived in more than one town and more than one state.

any more questions or can we just get to answers ?

The witness said that the store employee then told Brown he had to pay first, and then Brown reached over the counter to grab more packs of cigars and turned to leave the store.
According to the witness account, the employee called 911 and attempted to block Brown from leaving by standing in front of the door.
“That is when Brown grabbed [redacted employee name] by the shirt and forcefully pushed him back into a display rack,” the report said. www.washingtonpost.com...

That claims a witness reported an employee call 911.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

well this is intersting

Jay Kanzler, a lawyer for the owner, who was not named, told reporters that it was a customer, not a member of staff, who called police last Saturday. He said the store had been part of the community for many years and knew many customers by name – but not Brown.

so he didnt know the victim....

and then this :

He declined to say if staff even considered the incident a robbery.

so who is this mysterious customer...hmmm right time and at the right place huh ?

originally posted by: sirhumperdink
i believe the store owner would have to press charges for it to be considered criminal action

Wrong. The District Attorney does not need anyone to press charges to prosecute a felony.

Please learn how the criminal justice system operates.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Vasa Croe

The town itself is not a nice town in general. Plenty of crime goes on there, and just like most crime ridden areas, there is a code of silence or something will happen to you.

how many nice towns are there in the U.S where this kind of thing does not happen ?

The one that I grew up in was that way... and still is.

so where do you get this knowledge from then since you grew up in such a nice town ...?

do you have first hand knowledge of this or did you watch it on TV ?

I have lived in more than one place in my life.
I have traveled.
I am not 18 years old, so I have lived in more than one town and more than one state.

so you can personally vouch to the fact that living in a town that is not so nice if you witness a crime and speak out your life is in danger ?

When did you ask that of me?

ok...it is simple... you said and i quote :

The town itself is not a nice town in general. Plenty of crime goes on there, and just like most crime ridden areas, there is a code of silence or something will happen to you.

I have lived in more than one place in my life. I have traveled. I am not 18 years old, so I have lived in more than one town and more than one state.

any more questions or can we just get to answers ?
You better double check that.... because I am not the person that posted this:

The town itself is not a nice town in general. Plenty of crime goes on there, and just like most crime ridden areas, there is a code of silence or something will happen to you.

Maybe when you figure it out, you can go pick a fight with them.
Here, I did the legwork for you....
Look here:
ATS Post NOT by Butcherguy!
You can thank me later!

ETA: I see someone starred your post. They must be a fan of yours.

a reply to: butcherguy


Oh come on....why are you bringing me into your argument. I love when posters get confused as to who said what and act all righteous about it. Now look what you done....gone and made someone look ignorant again.....

a reply to: roadgravel

Excellent, excellent response! Star for you because you beat me to it.

It does not matter if the store owner called or not. It does not matter if ANYONE called.

If Brown was being stopped for walking in the road (which is a legal reason to stop someone) and ASSUMED that the police were called on him because of the strong armed robbery then that could absolutely explain an aggressive action by Brown.

The only reason why people are saying the cop was in the wrong because he was allegedly unaware of the robbery is because they are trying to suggest that he stopped him because he was black.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
See.. no. I don't.
He may very well have stole them.

I posted two sources. One said he paid for them the other said he didn't.

I know you have a little trouble with reading comprehension but let me post the thread title for you:

Mike Brown MAY have paid for cigars, the storeowners never called 911.

Then my words from the first paragraph of the opening post:

It seems the Ferguson police have been busted again. They demonized this guy. There has been a large push to call him a strong arm thief, and say he charged officers, but now I don't know what to believe. Apparently, one source says he paid for his cigars.

Note: Another source says he did steal cigars but it was so insignificant that the store owners didn't call the police. Allegedly a customer did.

Now.. stop trolling and stop taking the thread off topic.

Maybe your thread title should have read Brown DID STEAL the cigars and I DON"T KNOW IF THE CLERK CALLED 911. But for trolling purposes I am sure your thread title worked much better.

No, my thread title is solid. I said he MAY have paid for them and I do know the clerk DID NOT CALL 911 because he said so himself.

Please if you are going to post on ATS and post in threads, actually read the material provided before you start talking nonsense.

originally posted by: sirhumperdink
a reply to: Vasa Croe

the criminal element he robbed the store with?
you mean the dude that seemed apprehensive and put the cigars back on the counter
real hardened criminal that one

again though this isnt a character analysis
its not about whether or not mike brown was a good guy or deserved this or that
its about whether or not the officer in question was justified in their actions
and it certainly does not appear that way

Sorry, didn't realize we were categorizing criminal elements now. Guess that would fly in court....sorry judge, I am not a hardened criminal, so will you set me free now?

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

Brown was not shot at close range according to the autopsy,so we know he wasn`t shot while standing next to the vehicle,so then what was the officer shooting at while he was sitting in the vehicle?

Let`s look at the possibilities and see which looks most probable:

1) The officer tried to shoot brown through the open window but missed,leaving no gunshot residue on brown,from only about 1 foot away.

2)The officer drew his weapon and intentionally and voluntarily just randomly discharged it into the floor, seat,dashboard etc, of the vehicle.

3)The weapon involuntarily discharged for some unknown mysterious reason.

4)The weapon involuntarily discharged while brown and the officer struggled to gain control of it.


Nobody is disputing that the weapon discharged inside the vehicle
Nobody is disputing that Brown was not shot at close range.
The only dispute is about why the weapon was discharged inside the vehicle.The police have said it discharged while brown was trying to take the weapon from the officer.
The brown team have offered no explaination for why the weapon discharged inside the vehicle.

Can you think of any logical reason why the officer would draw his weapon inside the vehicle,aim it away from brown and voluntarily discharge it? That is exactly what the defense wants us to believe is what happened.
Out of all the possible reasons for why the weapon discharged inside the vehicle i know which one seems the most logical and most likely to me.

a reply to: kosmicjack

No. I am not.
I have been completely ambivalent. Even in the OP. I stated I don't know. I am simply presenting this information.
If it seems like I have to defend one way or the other it's because trolls on here that aren't actually reading the thread at forcing me to defend NOT MY POSITION, but the possibility.

I even say in the OP I am not fond of the sources.

The most important thing to glean from it is that the store clerk didn't make the call and it was an anonymous customer allegedly. The point was to make people realize we need to hear that tape.

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
See.. no. I don't.
He may very well have stole them.

I posted two sources. One said he paid for them the other said he didn't.

I know you have a little trouble with reading comprehension but let me post the thread title for you:

Mike Brown MAY have paid for cigars, the storeowners never called 911.

Then my words from the first paragraph of the opening post:

It seems the Ferguson police have been busted again. They demonized this guy. There has been a large push to call him a strong arm thief, and say he charged officers, but now I don't know what to believe. Apparently, one source says he paid for his cigars.

Note: Another source says he did steal cigars but it was so insignificant that the store owners didn't call the police. Allegedly a customer did.

Now.. stop trolling and stop taking the thread off topic.

Maybe your thread title should have read Brown DID STEAL the cigars and I DON"T KNOW IF THE CLERK CALLED 911. But for trolling purposes I am sure your thread title worked much better.

No, my thread title is solid. I said he MAY have paid for them and I do know the clerk DID NOT CALL 911 because he said so himself.

Please if you are going to post on ATS and post in threads, actually read the material provided before you start talking nonsense.

But he didn't pay for them (account from his thug buddy that stole with him) and the clerk did not make any personal statement that he didn't call. The attorney for the QT said this. Witnesses have said that it WAS an employee that called. They are not claiming it because they don't want retribution from the community any more than has already occurred there.

a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

Brown was not shot at close range according to the autopsy,so we know he wasn`t shot while standing next to the vehicle,so then what was the officer shooting at while he was sitting in the vehicle?

Let`s look at the possibilities and see which looks most probable:

1) The officer tried to shoot brown through the open window but missed,leaving no gunshot residue on brown,from only about 1 foot away.

2)The officer drew his weapon and intentionally and voluntarily just randomly discharged it into the floor, seat,dashboard etc, of the vehicle.

3)The weapon involuntarily discharged for some unknown mysterious reason.

4)The weapon involuntarily discharged while brown and the officer struggled to gain control of it.


Nobody is disputing that the weapon discharged inside the vehicle
Nobody is disputing that Brown was not shot at close range.
The only dispute is about why the weapon was discharged inside the vehicle.The police have said it discharged while brown was trying to take the weapon from the officer.
The brown team have offered no explaination for why the weapon discharged inside the vehicle.Their original explaination that brown was shot while standing next to the vehicle has been proven false by the autopsy and as of now they have offered no other explaination.

Can you think of any logical reason why the officer would draw his weapon inside the vehicle,aim it away from brown and voluntarily discharge it? That is exactly what the defense wants us to believe is what happened.
Out of all the possible reasons for why the weapon discharged inside the vehicle i know which one seems the most logical and most likely to me.

originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

Brown was not shot at close range according to the autopsy,so we know he wasn`t shot while standing next to the vehicle,so then what was the officer shooting at while he was sitting in the vehicle?

Let`s look at the possibilities and see which looks most probable:

1) The officer tried to shoot brown through the open window but missed,leaving no gunshot residue on brown,from only about 1 foot away.

2)The officer drew his weapon and intentionally and voluntarily just randomly discharged it into the floor, seat,dashboard etc, of the vehicle.

3)The weapon involuntarily discharged for some unknown mysterious reason.

4)The weapon involuntarily discharged while brown and the officer struggled to gain control of it.


Nobody is disputing that the weapon discharged inside the vehicle
Nobody is disputing that Brown was not shot at close range.
The only dispute is about why the weapon was discharged inside the vehicle.The police have said it discharged while brown was trying to take the weapon from the officer.
The brown team have offered no explaination for why the weapon discharged inside the vehicle.

Can you think of any logical reason why the officer would draw his weapon inside the vehicle,aim it away from brown and voluntarily discharge it? That is exactly what the defense wants us to believe is what happened.
Out of all the possible reasons for why the weapon discharged inside the vehicle i know which one seems the most logical and most likely to me.

This is another thing that doesn't make sense. If it escalated to the point that they were fighting over the gun and it went off the officer would never let Brown get far enough away to charge him and shoot him at a distance.

IT MAKES NO SENSE.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: Vasa Croe

The town itself is not a nice town in general. Plenty of crime goes on there, and just like most crime ridden areas, there is a code of silence or something will happen to you.

how many nice towns are there in the U.S where this kind of thing does not happen ?

The one that I grew up in was that way... and still is.

so where do you get this knowledge from then since you grew up in such a nice town ...?

do you have first hand knowledge of this or did you watch it on TV ?

I have lived in more than one place in my life.
I have traveled.
I am not 18 years old, so I have lived in more than one town and more than one state.

so you can personally vouch to the fact that living in a town that is not so nice if you witness a crime and speak out your life is in danger ?

When did you ask that of me?

ok...it is simple... you said and i quote :

The town itself is not a nice town in general. Plenty of crime goes on there, and just like most crime ridden areas, there is a code of silence or something will happen to you.

I have lived in more than one place in my life. I have traveled. I am not 18 years old, so I have lived in more than one town and more than one state.

any more questions or can we just get to answers ?

You better double check that.... because I am not the person that posted this:

The town itself is not a nice town in general. Plenty of crime goes on there, and just like most crime ridden areas, there is a code of silence or something will happen to you.

Maybe when you figure it out, you can go pick a fight with them.
Here, I did the legwork for you....
Look here:
ATS Post NOT by Butcherguy!
You can thank me later!

ETA: I see someone starred your post. They must be a fan of yours.



your right i jumped the gun...you still didnt answer my question ..and vasa crow has not answered any questions yet...so forgive me for thinking the two of you are a tag team

originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: sirhumperdink
a reply to: Vasa Croe

the criminal element he robbed the store with?
you mean the dude that seemed apprehensive and put the cigars back on the counter
real hardened criminal that one

again though this isnt a character analysis
its not about whether or not mike brown was a good guy or deserved this or that
its about whether or not the officer in question was justified in their actions
and it certainly does not appear that way

Sorry, didn't realize we were categorizing criminal elements now. Guess that would fly in court....sorry judge, I am not a hardened criminal, so will you set me free now?

so then how is it that you know the guy with him was a criminal?
he committed no criminal actions that im aware of

just for clarity here is a full video of the robbery.



it shows everything in better detail.

it shows brown walk up to the counter place something on it, walk away then come back to when your video shows him standing there with his hands behind his back. notice form then on there are no jerking movement or stops and starts of the video.

also if he paid for them that should be easy enough to check, just look at the sales tape of the cash register. i don't think the store owners are dumb enough to make illegal sales that are record with a time stamp on both. ie tobacco sales are illegal to persons under 21.