The SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT ANALYSIS of the events of 9/11.

a reply to: firerescue

IMO this go togheter with nuke demo, olo airplane and all disinfo made on purpose..

From that Aerospaceweb.org site :

The amount of influence that trailing vortices have on the aerodynamic behavior of a wing depends on a number of factors. One of these is the distance of the wing from the ground. When operating very close to the ground, the vortices can become partially blocked and prevented from fully forming. This disruption of the trailing vortices reduces the magnitude of the downwash they create. A reduction in downwash results in higher lift and lower induced drag for a given angle of attack. As a result, ground effect increases the aerodynamic efficiency of a wing.
-snip-
Another eyewitness named Penny Elgas also referred to the plane rocking back and forth while Albert Hemphill commented that, "He was slightly left wing down as he appeared in my line of sight, as if he'd just 'jinked' to avoid something."
(LT : the VDOT radio mast. )
These observations were further confirmed by Mary Ann Owens, James Ryan, and David Marra who described the plane's wings as "wobbly" when it "rolled left and then rolled right" and the pilot "tilted his wings, this way and in this way."

And that's what you expect when you know the plane came down from over the center roof part of wing 8 of the ANNEX, over the office Albert Hemphill stood in, still banking slightly left, after the pilot's reaction on that radio mast, and then he corrected by banking about 25 degrees back to the right, passed the north side of the CITGO station and ended that long smooth right bank just before Route 27 and Penny's car top, by banking back a bit left, to level off and pull up a tiny bit to fly parallel to the lawn into the second floor slab of the Pentagon's west wall. As hundreds of witnesses saw happening.

"The flight control system used on a 757 can certainly overcome any ground effect. ... That piece of software is intended to be used during low speed landings. A high speed dash at low altitude like [Flight 77] made at the Pentagon is definitely not recommended procedure ... and I don't think it's something anyone specifically designs into the software for any commercial aircraft I can think of. But the flight code is designed to be robust and keep the plane as safe as possible even in unexpected conditions like that. I'm sure the software could handle that kind of flight pattern so long as the pilot had at least basic flight training skills and didn't overcompensate too much."

THE HUGE problem with this aeronautically schooled expert explaining all this is, that all three autopilot systems were shut OFF by the pilot, about 10 minutes before impact, thus also before exercising that smooth 320 degrees spiral down during a few minutes, at 260 to at most 310 knots.
Shows the recovered DFDR data.

That plane's pilot did something most pilots will not be able to duplicate, under those super stressed circumstances, at first try.

a reply to: LaBTop

not the D-Ring plane ENTRY hole.

There is no hole in the D ring for simple reason that D Ring did not extend all the way to first floor for the two lowest floor

There were no substantial walls between the outer E Ring and the C Ring - just some sheet rock partitions

Plus have not explained all the aircraft debris and human remains at the C Ring hole

How did they get there.....???

You already explained it, the entry hole was at the E-Ring, the outer wall of the Pentagon. A simple typo by me.

Plus have not explained all the aircraft debris and human remains at the C Ring hole

How did they get there.....???

After reading all my posts about the curious statements of 22 eyewitnesses, that AA 77 did not fly where the official story wants it to be, is it so far fetched to suppose that they planted those too? They had lots of time to do that, on their own tightly secured turf. Btw, it seems the military brass was the main originator of 9/11. From several countries

In my opinion, when you believe all those witnesses, and thus conclude that a plane flew North of CITGO, and not South, and also believe Sean Boger, the Heliport operator who says he saw the plane ALSO coming from a spot North of the CITGO gas station, hit the Pentagon West wall just a few tens of yards away from his position in the control room up in the heliport tower, then that means quite a few very grave conclusions have to be drawn by yourself :

1. Those 5 cut light poles were staged (laid down there shortly before)
2. The generator trailer's roof dent was staged (already made in it)
3. The circular hole in the fence beside the generator trailer was staged (already made in it)
4. The cut-out of that low concrete wall in front of the west wall was staged (already made in it)
5. That plane must have impacted in an angle of 80 to 90 degrees to that west wall, incoming from a 10 degree slow dive and leveled out, then impacting at a 2 to 3 degrees right wing up angle, at 250 Knots
6. Then the damage path is not deeper than the later collapsed 90 degree impacted part of Wedge 1. See for that, the ASCE Pentagon Performance Report its drawings, with that part shown in it.
7. Thus, the deeper rest of that 42 degree damage path must have been caused by other means than the airplane
8. The "recovered" DFDR its last 10 secs, or even 3 min, have been falsified

OR

All these 22 witnesses are totally mistaken, or lying through their teeth for uncertain reasons.

9/11 Pentagon Reality Check 5: eyewitness Officer CHAD BROOKS
www.youtube.com...


9/11 Pentagon Reality Check 6: eyewitness Officer WILLIAM LAGASSE
www.youtube.com...


9/11 Pentagon Reality Check 11: eyewitness SEAN BOGER
www.youtube.com...


Judicial Watch September 11 Pentagon Citgo Video
www.youtube.com...


At 4:44 / 5:20 you see that bright sun reflection's vertical flash on the underside of that white Northern CITGO canopy.
Just before that, you see in the smaller center top video-window beside that flash in the big right top video-window, the same flash but as a horizontal stripe at the top.
At 5:02 Lagasse has finished radioing in what he saw and backs up his white patrol car, turns around and speeds out of the entrance, to the right.
Directly after the flash you also see in the bottom right window, all visitors and the clerk run to the door at the right side and pack together to stare at the Pentagon's smoke and fire.

From time to time, this footage has to be rubbed under the stubborn noses of all these OS-Trusters, so we can be annoyed again by the tragic attempts by them, to ridicule away these iron-clad 2006 witness video recorded statements.

Which are super-reinforced by the notion that all these witnesses were already interviewed in 2001 by the Library of Congress researchers, and the Army History Corpse researchers.
And expressed in those very early, OFFICIALLY ENDORSED 2001 interviews already, the exact same indications of their recollection of the position where the plane they saw, flew :
To the North of the CITGO gas station and a bit South of the military Arlington Cemetery grounds, 30 to 40 meters high only, in between those two landmarks thus.

Which definitely, without a shimmer of a doubt, proves, that all those 8 things I summed up in my latter post, were STAGED.
Not a shimmer of a chance also, that that plane could have EVER cut those 5 Southern placed lamp poles on its way into that concrete floor slab on top of that first floor, 3 m higher than the Pentagon lawn.

EDIT :
It's very important to the by me outlined scenario of what really impacted the Pentagon and from where, that you notice that all three EYE-witnesses express the feeling that the plane flew MUCH slower than the 3.2 seconds the officially endorsed South of CITGO flying plane needed at their ridiculously high speed to fly from the Navy Annex to the impact point.
They ALL think it needed around 10 seconds or such, which enforces my explanation of a much slower flying plane than the officially endorsed one.
They also all explain a short left followed by a longer right bank of no more than about 20 to 30 degrees wings bank. Then a left bank again to level the plane off just before the lawn was reached and Route 27 was crossed perpendicular.
And then it impacted also nearly perpendicular to the Pentagon's west wall, and NOT AT ALL like the 42 degrees angle all these obedient government slaves tried to push through our throats. The ASCE team, The official Pentagon Report team, the media, the military brass and their politicians, NIST and so on and on.

This is the result of a brainwashed nation, held hostage for at least 7 decades already, to a war mongering top elite in their military and political circles.
You, the quasi-Truster know it. We, the Doubters know it.
But you, t r u (s) t e r s will never admit it publicly.
Because it would shatter your media-induced world view for ever.

From time to time, this footage has to be rubbed under the stubborn noses of all these OS-Trusters, so we can be annoyed again by the tragic attempts by them, to ridicule away these iron-clad 2006 witness video recorded statements.

So . . .
the plane was faked
the poles were staged
the witnesses were planted
the generators were pre-damaged
the wall was pre-damaged
the bodies were planted
the plane parts were dispersed
the FDR was hacked

That's a lot of stuff going on at the same time.
It's worthy of a Broadway show in timing alone.
Come see the stage version!
Only two showings left!
The props! The songs! The dance!
Sunday! Sunday! Sunday!

Or you can just fly a damn plane into a building.
Face the facts. Our government isn't capable of faking something this elaborate.

originally posted by: samkent Face the facts.

the irony! facts mean nothing in the OS. it is a pack of lies. how does one describe those that knowingly push a false agenda? i'm sure there's a word for them (you).

A reply to: samkent

For once, try it.

Offer us a serious reason why two government workers, Sergeants in the Pentagon Protective Police Force, should LIE when they both say on camera, they bet their LIFE on the fact that they saw a huge passenger plane passing just a hundred or so yards north of them, about 100 to 150 feet high in the air, while they both stood in the northern sections of the CITGO gas station grounds.

Consider at the same time, that an experienced air traffic controller, working in a very serious position in the Heliport tower, swears that he also saw a huge passenger plane coming towards him from over the Navy Annex roof, and passing North of the CITGO gas station in a long 20 to 30 degree right bank towards its impact point at the Pentagon West wall, some tenth of yards to his left.

Try to answer in any non-pathetic manner. You don't trick us with that technique, anymore than earlier tries.
All that stuff was NOT going on at the same time.
They had years and years to plan in advance, and years and years after 9/11, for serious, web wide damage control and any technical trick in their vast domains.

And that's exactly what the planners did, fly a damn plane into a building.
It looks as if one tiny detail was overseen, the VDOT building's too high radio mast, just 30 meters from the Annex fence.
Which suddenly towered up in the video screen of the remote controlling "pilot", either sitting in the C-130 or in the Doomsday plane. My bet is on the latter.

One flying around already, the other waiting on the runway at Edwards Air Force Base, to get airborne immediately after impact, to freak the hell out of that bunch of senators, politicians and lobbyists fleeing from the Capitol and the House, by doing a few lazy turns in the sky above them at 1000 meters above their concerned, impressed, and sweaty heads.
And then that white Doomsday plane, stocked with electronic means to overtake or seriously hinder hostile enemy planes, went on to Shanksville, to lead the last attack plane to its intended grave.

Both military planes were flying after a nation wide grounding of all planes was declared about five minutes earlier than the C-130 took off. A National Guard flight, what was so damn important to get such a simple return flight to home base, airborne, after such a historic nation wide applicable decision to stay, or get on the ground, was already radioed all around the USA its airfields and control towers?

And your government isn't capable of faking something this elaborate. But its Agencies surely are, as the CIA proved conclusively on FOIA freed paper, by planning their Operation Northwood already in the nineteen-sixties.
Which by the way could easily have been the groundwork for this 9/11 operation.

That amount of gold pales in comparison to the trillions made by the military industrial complex or the furtherance of gepolitical goals in the M.E.

a reply to: LaBTop

And your government isn't capable of faking something this elaborate. But its Agencies surely are, as the CIA proved conclusively on FOIA freed paper, by planning their Operation Northwood already in the nineteen-sixties.

Operation Northwoods was merely a proposed operation.
It was never implemented.
If they had tried they would have F'ed it up too.
They sold coc aine in south LA and got found out.
They tortured prisoners at Gitmo and got found out.
Lets not forget the Robert A. Levinson scandal.
Heck even the director of the CIA can't have an affair without the world finding out.

If the director of the CIA can't get a little nookie on the side in secret there's no way in Hades they could pull off a plane crash in secret.

So, THEY have F'ed THIS one up too.

Since you avoid to address the meat of the matter, in this case of course those very convincing North of CITGO eyewitnesses, it's clear that the decisive majority of a nation full of perfectly normal reacting individuals is held hostage by a bunch of unhealthy rich sociopaths, holding the reins of government, media-information and legislative research.

It's clear that since the Kennedy murders, THEY have fine-tuned their psychological mass-influence techniques to such a high level, that it has become impossible for oppositional forces to get a grip on an increasingly obedient citizenry, which is afraid of admitting that they are compliant in mass murder on a global scale, for 70 decades already.
As long as the same mayhem which is unleashed by this ruling class of sociopaths on millions of innocent foreign bystanders is not brought back to their own home turf, the still silent majority manages to close their eyes for the terrible bloodshed that is going on for so long already in the rest of the world, all in the name of protection of their ruling class its way of life.

It's not only you "Sam", it's that whole massive mass of devil-may-care US citizens with their "couldn't care less" expression, that sends cold shivers along my spine, every time I read their excuses to keep the status quo going like it is.

My CITGO FOIA-video posts from 2007 :
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: LaBTop

SO they managed to fake all that stuff, preplant everything right under the noses of THOUSANDS of potential witnesses that were at that time walking, driving, standing all around the Pentagon in the hour before the impact, and no one saw a damn thing?

My sides are splitting from laughing at that ridiculous nonsense. I take it you have NEVER been to the Pentagon and drove through the traffic mess on a lovely weekday morning right next to the Pentagon. I drove by, rode by on a bus, and overlooked the Pentagon from Arlington Cemetery in the morning at roughly the same time of the impact event. All have lovely views of the Pentagon and the entire wall is wide open to see from all angles on the surrounding expressways. Arlington has a lovely view that people can stand and watch from. You mean to tell me that they managed to fake all of this right under the noses of the thousands of drivers and no one stopped and asked, "Hey what are they doing with those poles and blocking my road ahead? Why are they putting a trailer up against the wall with a strange shaped hole on it? Why are they cutting that fencing there? Why are they making a hole in the wall?"

Come on LaBTop, this is getting pretty desperate. Unless every damn person within 5 miles of the Pentagon was in on it, and only a few idiots managed to sneak through without a clue, or you are truly living at fantasy world.

a reply to: GenRadek

You know what makes me laughing out loud, when I read your remarks?

The fact that you cleverly omit all these 22 eyewitnesses their iron clad reporting of a north of CITGO flying passenger airplane trajectory, and its impact.

Since you don't trust yourself to find a reasonable reason why ALL these people thus seemingly (to you) suffered from the same insanity, you start addressing the problem the other way round.

At least I offer you my 22 reasons, why I try to explain the thus non-fitting quasi evidence. Which are only 5 poles and a curiously shaped hole in a C-Ring. The trailer roof dent is easily made at night or early morning.

The problem is, that casual observers (media sheep) can't bring themselves to believe that conspirators will go to such lengths to stage a scene in such a way that its outcome fits their planned story. And that's why at first, they always succeed to convince the masses. Later on comes the doubt, even later the certainty something is wrong, very wrong.

You must start to convincingly undermine the video taped NoC reports, or all you post on their logical consequences is pure nonsense and hogwash.
Ask the 2 Pentagon police officers to come forward again and retract their initial story? Impossible.
They are by the way blocked from further interviews by the Pentagon bureaucrats, who know damn well that their 9/11 story will fall apart when that ever happens on prime time.

a reply to: LaBTop

All that bunk about NoC was debunked years ago LaBTop. NoC is dead. The eyewitnesses were mistaken and were in positions that would have made their views untenable. Why? Because from a distance, if you watch a plane come in for a landing, and you see it fly over a certain building, although it looks like it flew over over it, it just as well could have flown behind it or in front of it, relative to your viewing area, How they describe the aircraft's flightpath, from their angle, it very well appeared to go NoC BUT unless they were standing in the gas station parking lot, or standing right along the flight path, they only have a basic visual reference to go on. The Citgo station. It is all about perspective LaBTop. I thought THAT would be simple enough to understand.


Simple way of proving my point:
Airplane over gas station?


Now lets look at this photo, and see where the plane is. No imagine looking at it from a perpendicular view right at its right side. And you are five blocks away. How would you describe the flight path? Did it fly over the gas station? Looking at this photo it is obvious it flew well to the left of it (as per this perspective). Someone looking at the same plane from farther away would say it may have flown farther to the right. Or farther to the left. Or maybe right over it. But unless you are right here:

Plane RIGHT over head

you cannot definitively say it flew directly over a certain location. Cars that had it fly directly over them saw it right over them, and that was SoC. Is it sinking in yet?

a reply to: GenRadek

Also all I have to do to further debunk your witnesses is by posting this:

NoC debunked

Let's get this triumphant remark of you first out of the way :
You, nor anyone else did at any time offer any devastating evidence that the 22 witnesses were in error, misjudged or lied about their experiences on 9/11/2001.
And none of you have ever offered any serious reasoning to doubt these witnesses, so, your constant repeating of this sentence :
"All that bunk about NoC was debunked years ago" is pure bunk itself.
And begins to sound pretty desperate.

To defend your desperation, you post 2 plane photos, one flying over a block of houses flying straight towards the photographer, in a flight path perpendicular to and over the line of houses. And another plane seen from behind by the photographer, flying from east to west, towards the western side of a SHELL gas station's northern canopy. You clearly hold on to a comparison made with the CITGO (Nex) gas station situation on 9/11, which you clearly try to impress on the reader.

Which is in both cases, not at all what Lagasse and Brooks both reported.
They both stood at the north side of the CITGO gas station grounds, both looking north, Lagasse looking away from under its northern canopy, Brooks from the north part of the parking on the other side of Joyce Street, 20 meters west of, and beside of Lagasse, and both reported a plane passing low in front of their eyes, coming from the CITGO's canopy's west side going to its east side. On the canopy's west side lays the Navy Annex buildings, on its east side lays the Pentagon. On its north side lays the Arlington Cemetery.
Both police officers reported that the plane flew from west to east, in between Arlington cemetery and the CITGO gas station. They bet their life on it to be true.

You however, post an unnamed SHELL gas station photo with a west to east flying plane, somewhat comparable with the CITGO situation.
The photographer is however looking sideways to the western side of this SHELL station its northern canopy, standing under that plane's flight path, photographing from behind this plane.
Which is a 90 degrees different angle, thus perpendicular oriented angle of view, compared with the CITGO police officers situation on 9/11.

I see no basis for comparison, at all, for both your posted plane photos, with the 9/11 CITGO situation. It's not even a weak comparison, your attempt to throw in the "perspective" card, i have to disappoint you, it's non-existing.

Lagasse and Brooks had no problem with any kind of perspective distortion, they simply saw the huge plane flying terribly low, flying from their left side to their right side, just a few hundred meters/yards right in front of them.
And both report it to be flying along, in a slightly right-banking configuration, meaning its right wing slightly down and THUS flying much slower than the officially reported speed from the "recovered" DFDR (digital flight data recorder).

(ATS Search for : LaBTop right bank )
I offered a slow speed, slightly down-angled and slightly right banking, feasible and reasonable flight path calculation for a NoC flightpath, that fits ALL 22 witnesses, beginning from over the center of the 8th Annex Wing its roof and which ends at the impact point.

And then all my opponents can do, in multiple threads here, is keep repeating that the plane flew much faster....
How dense in reasoning can you be, when you can not accept the logical repercussions of the reported behavior of the NoC flying plane.

The problem with all of you Trusters is, that you unconditionally follow the officially offered evidence, while neglecting the opposing, and in that light amazing statements of 22 witnesses.
Who reported already on the day of 9/11 and shortly after in secondary interviews, a TOTALLY non-compatible NoC slower flight path, when compared to your beloved official SoC crazy fast flight path.

Now to your Reheat link from myths.com.

The far outstanding conclusion to extract from the 22 witnesses is the fact that most of them describe a much slower flying, slightly right banking north of CITGO flying Pentagon attack plane.
Which makes all Reheats technical reasonings moot and of no importance for such a situation that is so far from the official crazy fast flying plane.

Sean Boger, who is an experienced heliport flight-controller, is the one who had the best training to make an educated guess about its speed when coming towards him.
Terry Morin guessed 10 to 12 seconds, and Albert Hemphill 10 seconds to impact.
All from the moment the plane appeared in their view from above the last, 8th Annex Wing.

Sean Boger stated that it took the attack plane far more than the 2 to 3 seconds from the official reports, to cover the distance from the Navy Annex to the Pentagon west wall. He talks about 6 to 8 seconds. Moreover, the others confirm that longer period too. Boger was an experienced USAF flight controller.

If you can't offer hard reasons why we should neglect all these north of CITGO flight path witness statements, especially Lagasse and Brooks, you HAVE to go find a reason for the obvious falsification of the south of CITGO flight path indications.

When you search ATS for my " LaBTop right bank " posts-search suggestion, you will get 10 pages of 10 posts each returned, that show my calculations, diagrams and pictures and lots of explanatory texts and links for that much slower flying NoC flying trajectory from Annex to NoC and further up to impact.

Neglect the first few results that come up because Google search used by ATS will instead come up with those wrong ones after them changing your query to " LaPTop right bank ".
Just click the dark-blue line on top of the ATS-search page that suggests " Did you mean: LaBPTop right bank".
It's just the difference between my capital "B" made into a "P" by Google's goofy search engine. Because their advertisers want to sell LaPTops.