State of Emergency Declared in Ferguson - Curfew from 12 am to 5am - Now National Guard

a reply to: OptimusCrime

So again, why do the many deserved to get punished for the few? You keep talking about 100's of people, how do you know how many are looting and rioting?
How about the 100's more that are NOT doing the crimes? Why do they have to be treated like criminials?
Your assumption that they are covering for the criminals is just that, an ASSUMPTION. You don't know what the community knows, but you want to paint the picture that they are defending the looters.
You already know everything there is to know about this town I guess.

And then you go assuming again, that since we are saying the cops are to heavily geared that means we want them to die, makes sense....

I've been reading every single thread on ats about the "situation" and watched the videos so you shouldn't be the one to assume.

This was your answer, not really a straight one. Did you read the 30+ pages of commentary on this thread alone about the live feeds as they were going on? Have you watched the over 3 hours of live coverage of last night?

originally posted by: OptimusCrime
... it doesn't take a few days to catch them all...

That's right.

Particularly, when the police don't want to catch them.

Report: Police Told To Stand Down During Looting In Ferguson

According to KTVI, at least 200 St. Louis County Police officers were on scene and helping handle the situation. They confirm the Domino’s Pizza on West Florissant was set fire and burned. They also confirm multiple businesses vandalized and looted. But the shocker happened when county Police told Fox 2 News that its officers were at the Ferguson Market earlier when looters showed up, but were ordered to “Stand down” by Missouri State Highway Patrol incident commanders at the scene and basically withdrew and allowed the looters to have their way with the store.

Link.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: OptimusCrime

So again, why do the many deserved to get punished for the few? You keep talking about 100's of people, how do you know how many are looting and rioting?
How about the 100's more that are NOT doing the crimes? Why do they have to be treated like criminials?
Your assumption that they are covering for the criminals is just that, an ASSUMPTION. You don't know what the community knows, but you want to paint the picture that they are defending the looters.
You already know everything there is to know about this town I guess.

And then you go assuming again, that since we are saying the cops are to heavily geared that means we want them to die, makes sense....

I've been reading every single thread on ats about the "situation" and watched the videos so you shouldn't be the one to assume.

This was your answer, not really a straight one. Did you read the 30+ pages of commentary on this thread alone about the live feeds as they were going on? Have you watched the over 3 hours of live coverage of last night?

I know how many by watching the videos, that you think I haven't watched. Riots and looting are treated the same every place in the country. When I was on South St. in Philly on Mardi Gras and the riots broke out, the cops came in on horses and if you didn't move out of the area, you got stomped, looter or not. By your example you'd rather let the criminals run free while people protest than give the cops time to round up the looters and then you can protest all you want peacefully.

I don't know who you think you're telling to STFU but I guess you're a typical keyboard warrior. Shocking.

Edit: Removed OT comment, not pertinent to the thread topic.

Honestly, this whole thing is out of hand. The protesters reigned it in last night, now the cops need to do the same. The fist fight doesn't cease if either side keeps swinging, yk?

originally posted by: loam

originally posted by: OptimusCrime
... it doesn't take a few days to catch them all...

That's right.

Particularly, when the police don't want to catch them.

Report: Police Told To Stand Down During Looting In Ferguson

According to KTVI, at least 200 St. Louis County Police officers were on scene and helping handle the situation. They confirm the Domino’s Pizza on West Florissant was set fire and burned. They also confirm multiple businesses vandalized and looted. But the shocker happened when county Police told Fox 2 News that its officers were at the Ferguson Market earlier when looters showed up, but were ordered to “Stand down” by Missouri State Highway Patrol incident commanders at the scene and basically withdrew and allowed the looters to have their way with the store.

Link.

I would be going out on a limb here but I'm assuming they were told to stand down because if they attempt to arrest anyone at that point it would only make the situation worse and probably didn't have the correct equipment to deal with 100's of people going ape #.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

I have an honest question, and nothing to be challenging with. You might even have an answer I don't expect, so it's sincere in asking.

Did those cops you refer to ride in on horseback with M-4 rifles AND carrying ammunition above and beyond what is issued to a combat soldier on patrol for the US Military?

We've heard more than one vet this week, after seeing the rambos on Wednesday night, reflect on the fact they were carrying equipment and ammunition loads well over what those men carried on patrol in actual war zones.

It's not the response to lawlessness that I have an extreme issue with..now that we're on our 2nd night of it. It's that they came, not as police with riot gear, but as combat soldiers working a civil enforcement problem.

The difference, even if subtle to some folks, is profound to the point of saying This Far...NO further! ..for some of us.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

The owner of that establishment was not the one who even called police. There is more to every story than a headline and lead. Slowing down and reading more of each link might help. No one doubts that you care but there is more to each story you are bringing up.

I for one understand your concern for officers and their families. If I was their family, I would question why those under oath to serve and protect were instead being deployed to provoke and attack. Why is that and who wins (profits) from those circumstances becoming an acceptable norm?

Nobody wants to see officers hurt either, so why are they being ordered ( and following orders) Capt. Johnson expressly prohibited them from taking, if he was in charge, as was represented?

The action taken by police simply does not add up. Who ordered that action and why are questions worth pursuing. If police command doesn't have control of the forces they deploy they need to go in a back room and duke it out themselves before taking aim against civilians.

This thread has been moving so fast it is hard to keep up here.
And I just want to repeat myself about the video being released.

First on topic. They are keeping the curfew in place tonight as well.

MSM finally caught back up with online news. Now saying that they where in fact shooting tear gas to enforce the curfew. When last night they claimed it was only to disperse due to the shooting. Either way. CNN must has been going back on their reports. They realize they can not stop the honest truths, from online, social media, boots on the ground reporting.

now to what I said in another place.

Zysin5 Wrote earlier....
They release this video of Mike Brown and here is why. They are going to let Darren Wilson get away with Murder! They are just priming people to "Get Ready". For when they announce Brown was being aggressive to Wilson. The video clearly shows Brown, not but hours before his murder, Acting aggressive to the store clerk.

This is all part of the well placed plan to get Wilson off the hook. You watch. I already see it. This video of Brown was put out, to sway peoples thoughts and feelings. Which it clearly has. The fairy tale is over, and Brown was aggressive. Hence that will allow Wilson's testimony stand up in court.

Just watch.. I already see it coming. Darren is going to get off on this. And this video release was just the first STAB at the people. I don't agree with their tactics. It is a complete phy op. They already know that Wilson is going to say it was in self defense. Now they just have to hurt Brown and his family. Poor taste. But I get it.. I see what they are doing. But make no mistake.. This goes beyond Mike Brown.

This is more than just about one kid. This is really about Cops over reach, and military style presence all over the USA. Do they not know about escalation? Cops get Body armor. Criminals get armor piecing rounds. Cops get Tanks, then Criminals gear up for war. This is coming to a boiling point. And it is not good. I see the chaos to come. I know I am not the only one.. But I am stating this here for the record.

Once they announce Darren Wilson innocence, I can come back to this post here, and be like.. Yep, saw it coming from the start.. Carefully crafted. I stand behind all those who stand up against the Status Quo. I stand behind all those who seek to Fight the power! Its what we have been doing here on ATS since the Start! Now it is coming into reality.

So now is the time to pick a side. For once in my life, I am picking a side. And I stand with the people. Even in light of Mike Brown acting like a "thug". Even in light that he was acting a fool. Still does not justify years of police brutality. You know I get it .. I see the other side too. Police have a real hard job out here, working the mean streets. I get it. Don't think I am missing that part of the puzzle. But weight with everything else. Sorry the scale fall in favor of the people this time. Not the police, or TPTB.

Edit to add. I really do like Johnson. He is a good man. With a good heart.
He is a good police officer. He is one of the good ones. He is making REAL efforts to help out here.
I do support his good work, and I hope that we can find peace by means of Ron Johnson's help. He is a good man.. no doubt!

a reply to: OptimusCrime

originally posted by: OptimusCrime
I would be going out on a limb here but I'm assuming they were told to stand down because if they attempt to arrest anyone at that point it would only make the situation worse and probably didn't have the correct equipment to deal with 100's of people going ape #.

You keep saying hundreds of looters, but offer no support for that number.

Moreover, we do know that there were hundreds of officers on the scene, converged upon an area of just a few city blocks. And do I really have to post pictures of their equipment????

ETA:

And it's strange to me you think the arrests of looters and vandals would make the situation worse, but firing tear gas and rubber bullets into peaceful protesters somehow would not?

a reply to: OptimusCrime

I would prefer to let the criminals run free than give the cops time to round up the looters. I believe constitutional rights are not subject to suspension for no law can overrule what is contained within it. Again I find myself agreeing this the founders of the great country.

"It is more important that innocence should be protected, than it is, that guilt be punished; for guilt and crimes are so frequent in this world, that all of them cannot be punished.... when innocence itself, is brought to the bar and condemned, especially to die, the subject will exclaim, 'it is immaterial to me whether I behave well or ill, for virtue itself is no security.' And if such a sentiment as this were to take hold in the mind of the subject that would be the end of all security whatsoever" - John Adams Defending British Soldiers charged with murder during the Boston Massacre

a reply to: OptimusCrime

Where did I say you haven't watched the videos?
I have been asking if you watched last nights events, as that is the topic of this thread! Something you keep dancing around.

I would rather the cops use all that gear they broke out on the looters not the protestors!
They would have all the reason in the word to use it on people breaking the law and acting the way you describe them as acting.

And I am telling you to stop assuming you know everything. You are assuming that we want cops to die and that the town is protecting the rioters and looters. Stop doing that.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: OptimusCrime

I have an honest question, and nothing to be challenging with. You might even have an answer I don't expect, so it's sincere in asking.

Did those cops you refer to ride in on horseback with M-4 rifles AND carrying ammunition above and beyond what is issued to a combat soldier on patrol for the US Military?

We've heard more than one vet this week, after seeing the rambos on Wednesday night, reflect on the fact they were carrying equipment and ammunition loads well over what those men carried on patrol in actual war zones.

It's not the response to lawlessness that I have an extreme issue with..now that we're on our 2nd night of it. It's that they came, not as police with riot gear, but as combat soldiers working a civil enforcement problem.

The difference, even if subtle to some folks, is profound to the point of saying This Far...NO further! ..for some of us.

You have to understand the riots broke out in a matter of a few minutes and was over in less than a half hour. I didn't stick around to see what kind of guns they were carrying because I didn't want to be trampled to death by horses that looked about 10 feet tall.

You can see the videos on youtube of how bad it was and how quick it was over.

a reply to: loam

He has seen the "videos" loam, that is all he needs to know exactly what is going on there.

originally posted by: DancedWithWolves
a reply to: OptimusCrime

The owner of that establishment was not the one who even called police. There is more to every story than a headline and lead. Slowing down and reading more of each link might help. No one doubts that you care but there is more to each story you are bringing up.

I for one understand your concern for officers and their families. If I was their family, I would question why those under oath to serve and protect were instead being deployed to provoke and attack. Why is that and who wins (profits) from those circumstances becoming an acceptable norm?

Nobody wants to see officers hurt either, so why are they being ordered ( and following orders) Capt. Johnson expressly prohibited them from taking, if he was in charge, as was represented?

The action taken by police simply does not add up. Who ordered that action and why are questions worth pursuing. If police command doesn't have control of the forces they deploy they need to go in a back room and duke it out themselves before taking aim against civilians.

I saw a report on the news that he called and the targeted him as a snitch and it was spray painted on the building to be targeted. There's always more to every story, on both sides of the isle. I understand right now most of us have no clue what's going on because we are not there yet relying on information from people that are swayed to one side or the other.

I'm just arguing a point that when a flash mob/looting happens, it's not atypical for police to lock the area down until everyone is under control and they stay in their houses. You're not going to be in your house long if you listen but if you continue to push the cops by thinking it's fun to provoke them, don't be surprised when they meet your force time 10.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: loam

He has seen the "videos" loam, that is all he needs to know exactly what is going on there.

You forget to mention I read a tweet and watched an instargram as well as updated my facebook status.

In previous decades police seemed to be able to beat the crap out of protesters without all the fancy equipment.

What is the purpose of pointing firearms at unarmed protesters who are not being unruly. If a person felt the need to point a firearm at a police officer, just in case, he would be dead.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

Snitches get stitches was painted on the Quiktrip that was looted and burned last Sunday night the first night of looting.

"Regardless of the petty crime he was allegedly involved in, nobody deserves to be gunned down like that, nobody; white, black, other, nobody," she said.

The store's owners, through their attorney, sent the message that they want to stay as far away from the situation as possible. In fact, he said, even after the initial alleged theft, it was a customer who called police.

"It's not about them. They didn't call the police, they didn't ask the police to come and take the video," said attorney Jay Kanzler.

kdsk

Jay Kanzler, lawyer for Ferguson Market and Liquor [more about this store in a minute], said police did nothing to stop the looting in town.
“Don’t know why the … police didn’t do anything. They were told to stand down and I don’t know why,” Kanzler said.

National Review Online

Some protestors tried to defend the market while officers followed a "stand down order"

a reply to: OptimusCrime

Fair enough and you answered my question anyway.

It was your first person impressions which matter most, whatever the reality may actually be. If the citizens have the impression it's an military force coming down on them, it doesn't really matter if they are actually nice guys just told to wear a specific kit for the night. Everyone to experience it will still feel they experienced their nation turning to the police state CT's have always warned of ...and perception takes on a reality all it's own for consequence.

A lesson I think some police commanders in the St Louis area need to learn or be fired for cause if they cannot.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

I''ll have the video ready to roll and be gathering quotes then. Freedom and all that.

May we find a peace that does not expect nor demand suspension of our rights.

I wish you and yours well, truly, but if they choose to deploy the military in America, it will be broadcast...live. They will not get away with lies.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

Well what videos would give you a fair representation of the 100's of looters and rioters?
Many have asked where you are getting that number and your response was that you had seen the videos so you know how many there were.