State of Emergency Declared in Ferguson - Curfew from 12 am to 5am - Now National Guard

a reply to: OptimusCrime

There was no riot going on last night until the police started one with armored vehicles advancing on peaceful protests, their use of tear gas and sound weapons. There was no reason for them to advance at all excepting for a false, unnecessary and unjustified state of emergency declaration, they chose to enforce in a way they pledged they would not.

Police action created the danger for police last night.

That mistake is being made due to the regurgitation of this one specific events facts. Until the people look at this in a bog picture perspective they will fail.

I've been tired of hearing the facts.

As an advocate for my own children, I have learn to see the big bigger is what's needed to male change. Focusing on the past that can't be changed doesn't help anyone. Focusing on the methods that went wrong will enable change.

a reply to: roadgravel

a reply to: OptimusCrime

All I did was ask you if you watched last nights events live like a majority of the people on this thread did.
I didn't assume anything, I asked you a question, one you still have not answered.

You're a hypocrite and a criminal apologist.

Oh really now? Care to back this up? Never have I said they were not in the wrong for the rioting or looting. But to punish the many for the actions of the few is not the american way.
I believe mr.brown was 100% in the wrong for what he did, but that doesn't mean he deserved to die for it.

I've said it time and again, if people want to riot, loot, kick police cars and shout obscenities about another race then you lose your protest rights.

And scream and stomp your feet about it some more, it doesn't mean your right
People do not lose their right to peacefully protest cause some a holes decided to come from out of town and take advantage of the situation.

Sounds like you are all for giving up some rights for your 'safety'

There was no rioting or looting last night and cops still met them with excessive force

originally posted by: jholt5638
a reply to: OptimusCrime

The equipment used last night was far beyond the threat they were responding to. They were at most going up against small arms fire. There was only a single case that I have heard where any sort of firearm was used by the protestors. Type IIA body armer can upto a .40 caliber round that be more than enough protection. The police were with assault weapons, LRAD, and APC's. They did not look like a police force trying to maintain order, that was a paramilitary force suppressing ememy combatants.

They're not there to play games when a city gets destroyed. I don't care if their armor can stop a tank round, if they have it, wear it for their protection. They're not going to wait until a cop gets killed to say "Well, fellas, break out the heavier armor" . . makes no sense.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

originally posted by: OptimusCrime
If you call 100's of people "some" then I don't know what to tell you.

If you're going to argue the meaning of "some", your response of "100's of people" is meaningless without a comparison to the numbers of peaceful protesters who committed no crime.

So what are the numbers? ...with sources please.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

It's the second time on this thread that I've had a remark made about me being "off" in some way by moderators and I find that pretty darn hurtful because I've had a history of being viewed as a freak for being what I am. I don't appreciate it coming from moderators. I'm here to help with the discourse. If you all want me gone, just say so but don't use veiled smears. That's beneath you both.

I suppose it helps to know I'm not the only Moderator you hang up on because of the tag. Heck.. I'm sorry if my volunteer efforts present an issue we can't get beyond for controversial topics and expressing my personal opinions as the member I am, and will always be within our community.

No one wants you or any other member gone ..and if my being outspoken gives you that impression, it's not only mistaken but so far removed from anything even crossing my mind? I'll take great care in controversial topics with ya going forward.

Outside that (which you aren't the first..recently in fact..to hang up on for why I replied in some depth), heck..We agree on more than we disagree on and always have. Sometimes...I really wish I could still do everything I do in helping folks around here yet not carry the scarlet letter which the Mod tag represents, to some who see it.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: OptimusCrime

All I did was ask you if you watched last nights events live like a majority of the people on this thread did.
I didn't assume anything, I asked you a question, one you still have not answered.

You're a hypocrite and a criminal apologist.

Oh really now? Care to back this up? Never have I said they were not in the wrong for the rioting or looting. But to punish the many for the actions of the few is not the american way.
I believe mr.brown was 100% in the wrong for what he did, but that doesn't mean he deserved to die for it.

I've said it time and again, if people want to riot, loot, kick police cars and shout obscenities about another race then you lose your protest rights.

And scream and stomp your feet about it some more, it doesn't mean your right

People do not lose their right to peacefully protest cause some a holes decided to come from out of town and take advantage of the situation.

Sounds like you are all for giving up some rights for your 'safety'

There was no rioting or looting last night and cops still met them with excessive force

I'm not screaming or stomping anything. I'm just reading a bunch of haters on here that want to protect the rights of criminals and would rather see a cop get killed than use the most high tech equipment they have to make sure they go home to their families at the end of the day. As far as "some assholes from out of town", no, I don't buy that one bit. If some aholes come from out of town and you're complaining the cops are too heavily armed to protect the town YOU LIVE IN, then that story doesn't add up.

Your interpretation of what I watched happen last night is completely the opposite of mine. Please explain how taking away civil liberties and then firing tear gas on peaceful protesters while lying about it gives the LEOs any semblance of right.

What I got when watching it happen was mob mentality and a might is right philosophy by the LEOs.




a reply to: OptimusCrime

So strong is this propensity of mankind to fall into mutual animosities, that where no substantial occasion presents itself, the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to kindle their unfriendly passions and excite their most violent conflicts.

and isn`t that what is really happening in ferguson?

In the grand scheme of things having their right to assemble curtailed for 5 hours a day to prevent local looting is NOT a substantial occasion,it is a frivolous and fanciful distinction between the right to assemble and a complete and permanent ban on their rights and has kindled their unfriendly passions and excited a violent conflict.

What I take from that short passage is that the people should pick their battles,fight for what is truly important and don`t waste your energy and resources on frivolous distinctions. They fuss and holler about not being allowed to protest between the hours of midnight and 5 A.M. but they don`t make a peep about the "patriot act" which is a long term suspension of some of their most valuable rights.

TPTB know that they have to appease the people and let them win these small manufactured situations in order to keep them satisfied that they have won some sort of victory.After "winning" these small victories the people are satiated and become complacent and go back to business as usual thinking that their liberties have been secured again.In their rush to celebrate their great victory they are still completely blind to the real threats against their liberties,threats like the "patriot act".
The people haven`t won the war,they haven`t even won a battle,these small,manufactured,temporary situations aren`t even a part of the real war against their liberties.These are just diversions created with the intent of backing down and allowing the peasants to believe they have won a great victory and the war is over causing the people to let their guard down.

good Lord, people. I think a curfew is wise. those who follow it won't get hurt by the rioters who are going crazy. If people were allowed to run amok we would turn into Gaza or Iraq etc. I'm 41 in the USA and awake as heck and even I see this as a protection and means to keep things from going insane. It's not a police state. If this curfew wasn't enforced then there would be far worse going on and spreading. Its for police and innocent persons to be safe as they can be.

Could it be the police are using over the top equipment for their protection because they know their actions will sooner or later provoke lethal actions from the community. Looks like they have no intention to change their methods of how they work in the communities.

a reply to: OptimusCrime

People are mad that the heavy hand is going to the protestors not the looters!
Are you sure you have been following what is going on? They have yet to respond to the violent criminals with the heavy hand, only using it to punish the peaceful protestors under the guise of needing it cause of the rioters and looters.

Please show me in this thread where someone advocated a cop getting killed? You won't be able to find it.
People here what the peoples rights protected, and what we saw last night was not that.

So for the third time, did you or have you watched ANY of the live feeds that were and are available to you?
Or would rather assume that it was just looters and rioters and thugs that warranted the response last night?

a reply to: sarra1833

Freedom of speech is a principal pillar of a free government; when this support is taken away, the constitution of a free society is dissolved, and tyranny is erected on its ruins. Republics and limited monarchies derive their strength and vigor from a popular examination into the action of the magistrates.

Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither. Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security.

One of our founding fathers disagrees with this.
They took their right to peacefully assemble away, end of story.

I think a curfew is wise. those who follow it won't get hurt by the rioters who are going crazy.

Then just stay away, it doesn't need to be forced upon you.
If you need a LAW to keep away from something you don't want to be around...something is wrong with you.

a reply to: OptimusCrime
The declaration of independence must written like this

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal unless they commit a crime, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness -That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Seems different than the last time I read it, but maybe I am old and just don't remember it.

Double post

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I learned something new...in the mobile version there is no indicator on the screen for who the mods are. Your contributions have been greatly appreciated. Greatly.

a reply to: WhiteAlice

As have yours WhiteAlice, I was tracking with your train of thought last night even though my weak signal during rainstorms here would not allow Tm Pool's livestream to run for me. He can be exceptionally detailed in his reporting and the different vantage points happening helped.

I am still very interested in seeing the dispatch timeline being discussed late last night...or rather this morning. Who was giving the orders to advance and who specified the weapons to be deployed. Their command and control structure is clearly out of control.

Appreciated all you both brought to the table and numerous others. Hang in there!!!

a reply to: Sremmos80

There's going to be a heavy hand until the situation can be figured out. When you have 100's of criminals stealing, kicking cop cars and acting like assholes, it doesn't take a few days to catch them all, especially when the community won't give them up because that's against some snitch code, which by the way, was spray painted on the side of a building for the owner calling the cops after he was robbed and assaulted.

It was suggested that cops are too protected, so I would assume, if you want the cops to be less protected than you would rather see on get killed instead of go home to their families for having better equipment.

As for this third time thing, I've already answered you.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

To make myself abundantly clear:

Actually, my response is because it occurred within 24 hours with TWO moderators. If it had been just you or KosmicJack, then I wouldn't have had the same response. But it was two of you within 24 hours and that isn't cool. I'm not saying that I have a problem with either you or KosmicJack personally or that neither of you can have your opinions. Far from it. However, you are both moderators, as I have been elsewhere, and you must know that your words carry that little extra bit of weight. Especially combined.

a reply to: Sremmos80

and what will they have gained by being allowed to protest for 5 more hours a day?

They will still be subject to indefinite incarceration in a military prison without charges being filed or the right to an attorney.

originally posted by: roadgravel
Could it be the police are using over the top equipment for their protection because they know their actions will sooner or later provoke lethal actions from the community. Looks like they have no intention to change their methods of how they work in the communities.

I used to support the police 100% take a look at my posts from years ago. Times have changed and we currently live under an oligarchy ruled police state.