Did Ukraine Attack Its Own Tanks?

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

In the Netherlands now everyone knows "We don`t know who did it, and we might never know," our most watched news (MSM) had yesterday at prime time a reporter on the crash site saying...

"Was it an attack of the pro-Russian Separatists or was it an attack of the Ukrainian army, was it deliberately or an accident ?, we don`t know it, and maybe we will never know it."

So claiming everyone knows the pro-Russian Separatists shot the plane down is just total BS.

www.stopfake.org...

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

In the Netherlands now everyone knows "We don`t know who did it, and we might never know," our most watched news (MSM) had yesterday at prime time a reporter on the crash site saying...

"Was it an attack of the pro-Russian Separatists or was it an attack of the Ukrainian army, was it deliberately or an accident ?, we don`t know it, and maybe we will never know it."

So claiming everyone knows the pro-Russian Separatists shot the plane down is just total BS.

www.stopfake.org...

Sure, crying about propagandized Russian news sites and than coming with a clearly anti-Russian propagandized news site to try to debunk a respectable Dutch news site, you go to be kidding me.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Sure, crying about propagandized Russian news sites and than coming with a clearly anti-Russian propagandized news site to try to debunk a respectable Dutch news site, you go to be kidding me.

Please provide a link to the respectable Dutch news site so we can see what the reporter actually said. (Technically, this is required by T&C)

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Sure, crying about propagandized Russian news sites and than coming with a clearly anti-Russian propagandized news site to try to debunk a respectable Dutch news site, you go to be kidding me.

Please provide a link to the respectable Dutch news site so we can see what the reporter actually said. (Technically, this is required by T&C)

nevermind the link, your statement that everyone knows Russians shot the plane doesn't stand.

it is simply not true.

originally posted by: VirusGuard
When Russia invades (...) you will make no mistake about it.

And I think that's the bottom line right there.

When Russia inters the Ukraine; there will be no mistaking it!

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Sure, crying about propagandized Russian news sites and than coming with a clearly anti-Russian propagandized news site to try to debunk a respectable Dutch news site, you go to be kidding me.

Please provide a link to the respectable Dutch news site so we can see what the reporter actually said. (Technically, this is required by T&C)

nevermind the link, your statement that everyone knows Russians shot the plane doesn't stand.

it is simply not true.

Where do I say "everyone knows Russians shot the plane?" Why must you always lie about what other people say? I admit I am over-generalizing. People who believe Russian propaganda might think that the posts on social media from Separatist fighters boasting about downing a Ukrainian bomber were an elaborate disinformation campaign, and they might believe in two Ukrainian jets that could only be seen on Russian radar and that might lead them to believe the opposite of what common sense tells everyone else. So, no, not "everyone knows" that Fascist pro-Russian separatists shot the plane down. Some people don't even realize that many of the "separatists" are actually Russian Fascists!

a reply to: tanka418

When Russia inters the Ukraine; there will be no mistaking it!

And that goes doubly for when NATO begins to interfere. You will certainly know it. NATO is not nearly as subtle as Putin:

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Sure, crying about propagandized Russian news sites and than coming with a clearly anti-Russian propagandized news site to try to debunk a respectable Dutch news site, you go to be kidding me.

Please provide a link to the respectable Dutch news site so we can see what the reporter actually said. (Technically, this is required by T&C)

Sure, at 7:46 min :

www.npo.nl...

a reply to: DJW001

oh, no, you never said that; you said this:

Everyone knows that the Fascist Pro-Russian separatists shot that plane down by accident.

could qualify for the most ignorant statements on ATS.

1. the investigation is not over yet:

The cause of the crash has not yet been determined by the official investigation, which is being carried out by the Dutch Safety Board.

2. even US and Ukraine didn't say 100%:

Both US and Ukrainian officials declared that a surface-to-air missile strike is the most likely cause...

but here you are to teach us what "everyone knows", while not even the completely biased sides in the issue taken the stance that "everyone knows" what exactly happened to the plane.

please, come back to topic now; not "everyone knows"!

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: tanka418

When Russia inters the Ukraine; there will be no mistaking it!

And that goes doubly for when NATO begins to interfere. You will certainly know it. NATO is not nearly as subtle as Putin:

Of that I have no doubt!

When NATO interferes we will have WWIII. However, NATO actually has no business interfering; Russia isn't, so NATO and the West should simply stay out!

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Sure, at 7:46 min :

www.npo.nl...

This link would have saved me time:

nos.nl...

I have to strain Dutch through my German to understand it, but this piece seems to be a meditation on how the tragedy seems to be preserved without any questions being answered. He does not seem to be giving any weight to the Separatist side of events, just reflecting on how it may be impossible to know the truth.

a reply to: demus

You are confusing official statements, which must be carefully hedged, with popular opinion. I used the phrase "everyone knows" as a synonym for "popular opinion."

a reply to: tanka418

When NATO interferes we will have WWIII. However, NATO actually has no business interfering; Russia isn't, so NATO and the West should simply stay out!

Thank you for agreeing that NATO has not been involved in Ukraine. I wish other posters here could admit that to themselves.

here it goes; maybe Ukrainians this time targeted refugees escaping Luhansk, blaming separatists...

Ukraine Refugees Hit by Rocket, Mortar Fire

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Sure, at 7:46 min :

www.npo.nl...

This link would have saved me time:

nos.nl...

I have to strain Dutch through my German to understand it, but this piece seems to be a meditation on how the tragedy seems to be preserved without any questions being answered. He does not seem to be giving any weight to the Separatist side of events, just reflecting on how it may be impossible to know the truth.

He gives an answer about it`s not clear who did it and why it happened, disproving your statement that everyone knows who did, so yes, it is a clear answer to your statement.

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: tanka418

When NATO interferes we will have WWIII. However, NATO actually has no business interfering; Russia isn't, so NATO and the West should simply stay out!

Thank you for agreeing that NATO has not been involved in Ukraine. I wish other posters here could admit that to themselves.

NATO is not same as USA mercenaries, US military, CIA or whatever.

originally posted by: demus
here it goes; maybe Ukrainians this time targeted refugees escaping Luhansk, blaming separatists...

Ukraine Refugees Hit by Rocket, Mortar Fire

Or maybe it was the pro-Russian murderers punishing "deserters."

a reply to: DJW001

the only deserters I've heard about are those fighting for Ukrainian government who escaped into Russia - there are hundreds of them.

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: DJW001

the only deserters I've heard about are those fighting for Ukrainian government who escaped into Russia - there are hundreds of them.

The "ethnic Russians" fleeing into Russia, refusing to fight to the death, are deserters.

originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: DJW001

the only deserters I've heard about are those fighting for Ukrainian government who escaped into Russia - there are hundreds of them.

The "ethnic Russians" fleeing into Russia, refusing to fight to the death, are deserters.

no, they are deserters who Kiev claims are POW's, again you're pushing your own story, giving a theory nobody buys and nobody sells.
www.thetimes.co.uk...