Did Ukraine Attack Its Own Tanks?

I am amazed how some members don't see that all of this happening last year or two will prove to be major historical victory for Russia and it's allies/aligned countries.

mark my words.

a reply to: Xeven

It's too early for us to know.

Like many other revolutions, the questions to why and who will be known later on, as things start to unravel. At the moment I cannot give you any strong piece of evidence that connects Ukraine revolution with the US or any other western nation. My guess is based on my experience with stuff like that, and the fact that US/EU supported the revolution in Ukraine, directly leading to Crimea voting independency over Ukraine. You keep forgetting the fact that Obama cannot make a single decision on his own. So, if US indeed had participation in this revolution, it is most likely that Obama wasn't the one to pull the trigger and said yes.

My guess is, someone wanted to destabilize this region for some reason, while at the same time we have ISIS problems, conflict in Gaza etc...I am certain that things will be much clearer in the future.

@MrSpad

You again made some really good points, but you assume that neither US nor EU had anything to do with Ukraine civil war and this conflict with rebels in the first place. At the moment when we have sanctions against Russia, wouldn't you think that by releasing these pictures, many other countries might have joined the party and make sanctions against Russia? Then, they would be even more pushed to a corner, and then, sanctions that Russia made against EU/US and a few other countries, would backfire against them? Then, I'm guessing, Russian economy would go to hell. Not to mention, losing Crimea.

a reply to: Nikola014

Of course you understand the sad fact that war is hell and in that war there are going to be civilian casualties, now that being said do you honestly think the Ukraine miltitary is just bobmbing the civilians without a care who they kill, because if that were the truth why would they have told them to leave?

When your so called separatist army hides in civilians apartments and homes what is going to happen?

Pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine are taking cover in civilians' apartments during government-backed air strikes, officials and residents said, as Moscow lashed out at the Ukrainian military for committing "crimes" against its people in the east.

"Terrorists who have tried to capture a border patrol on the outskirts of the city are not only seizing residents' apartments to use as their firing points, but also prevent people from leaving, essentially taking them hostage," Bryhunets said Monday on his Facebook page, as the fighting raged in Luhansk.

Local resident Olha Tatarenko, a teacher, gave a similar account on her blog on Russia's Ekho Moskvy website, but said rebels allowed civilians to leave — giving them 15 minutes to gather their identity documents.

"Now I know why people stupidly say the national guard are firing on the homes of peaceful citizens … because [separatist] snipers are ensconced in these 'civilian homes' and are shooting at Ukrainian soldiers!" she wrote.

www.themoscowtimes.com...

They have done the same thing in every town they occupied.

I am not saying it's right, but the blame is on the separatists, because if they weren't there they wouldn't be in this fear of being shelled now would they?

But of course blame the people who are keeping terrorists AKA. separatists, from causing a civil war in their country and destabilizing their country any further than they have.

How's that important in any way? You said Russia caused the mess in Ukraine, which is obviously not true.

Well then did you not say this...

Every revolution that has happened in the modern era had a back up from some foreign secret service. Revolution in Ukraine is not an exception also.

So then care to answer the question I asked about which foreign service is behind the separatists?

What on Earth are you talking about? Yes, elected president and government who are what? Neo-nazis? Why do they have constant physical fights in their parliament?

So the Jewish president is a neo nazi...and you don't see where your logic is flawed?

Because they are from different parties with different views, not unlike these...







So what exactly was your point about the fighting?

Seriously man, you live in your own world. You proved nothing. You as usual just talk a bunch of nonsense.

Yes I do and it's one that see through the BS the Russian gov't is trying to do( and that is the government not the civilians just so you don't get that wrong again ) too bad you just aren't able to do the same.

And can you prove I am just talking nonsense, because you haven't been able to prove anything else you think is the truth?

a reply to: MrSpad

If I was the Ukraine I would do whatever I needed to do to supress any evidence. Even if something leaks it can be called fake anyway.

Which is one reason we only now are starting to hear exactly what happened during the occupation of towns by the separatists.

Such as the beatings, kidnappings, stealing and murder.

I'm at pains to see why a Russian aid convoy, moving inside Russia, needs an armed military escort.

Police escort to the border maybe I could understand, but no one is going to attack it in Russia - are they?

Wouldn't that just be the stupidest thing in the world to do.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Which part of your long post is related to the topic???

What do you have to say about the topic? Probably nothing. Beating about the bush is a good policy for liars.

There is a war going on and there is a lot of disinformation flying around. We are seeing thick propaganda being dished out in the name of news.

The separatists have limited resources and will continue to fight with what they have. I am rather astonished at the resilience of separatist fighters who have held so long against massive odds.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

This one is one last time i respond to you about this subject.

When your so called separatist army hides in civilians apartments and homes what is going to happen?

Well, rebels in Ukraine were Russians living in those areas. I'm guessing they were hiding in their own apartments? Still, in the video i presented, the aim of Ukraine army was obvious. If you don't see trough that BS, then fine.

Plus, again, as a proof i cannot accept some random posts on facebook or some blog. No strong evidences provided that rebels are using civilians as shields. Just a couple of easily made up testimonies.

They have done the same thing in every town they occupied.

I am not saying it's right, but the blame is on the separatists, because if they weren't there they wouldn't be in this fear of being shelled now would they?

But of course blame the people who are keeping terrorists AKA. separatists, from causing a civil war in their country and destabilizing their country any further than they have.

See, now this is nonsense. I am aware a couple of civilians were killed accidentally by rebels. BUT, it cannot be compared to the number of innocent civilians killed by Ukraine army.

What do you mean if they weren't there? They are the people who lived there, probably their whole life, and now they got some weapons, and all of the sudden they are terrorists? Of course, I won't be denying the fact, that many of these rebels are trained military people from Russia who came there later on to help on their own.

See, just another proof that you are not familiar with the timeline of the revolution in Ukraine and the start of the civil war. I will not be the one explaining to you what was going on. The fact is, these cities voted indepedency over Ukraine. They didn't start the fight. Ukraine army did when they refused to accept this, and so they are getting these cities back by force. That's the only truth. Do you think if Ukraine army backed off, rebels would still be fighting? No.

So then care to answer the question I asked about which foreign service is behind the separatists?

You overlooked my answer. I said, people here acknowledged the fact that, rebels are being supported by Kremlin. No one is, neither was denying it. If someone was after killing my people, I would do the same.

In general, you don't know what you are talking about. Inform yourself more about this conflict, and then maybe you will see trough the BS that are being presented to you by MSM.

@Neformore

The video in the article was shot on the border. So I'm guessing those vehicles are just the military ones that patrol across the border. Nothing unusual about it. As for why were they escorting the aid trucks, I don't have an answer.

As for me, this discussion is over, it is time to allow other members to participate in these threads, and not just reading same old stuff by same old members.

Top Ukraine rebel leader says troops training in Russia

(Reuters) - Ukrainian rebels are receiving new military equipment and troops trained in Russia, and will launch a major counter-offensive against government forces, a separatist leader said in a video released on Saturday.

The four-month conflict in eastern Ukraine has reached a critical phase, with Kiev and Western governments watching nervously to see if Russia will intervene in support of the increasingly besieged rebels - an intention Moscow denies.

Alexander Zakharchenko, prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, said the rebels were in the process of receiving some 150 armored vehicles, including 30 tanks, and 1,200 fighters who he said had spent four months training in Russia.

www.reuters.com...

a reply to: Nikola014

See, now this is nonsense. I am aware a couple of civilians were killed accidentally by rebels. BUT, it cannot be compared to the number of innocent civilians killed by Ukraine army.

You really aren't serious are you?

So then these bodies just ended up in a mass grave by themselves...right?



Wow, you really do have blinders on don't you?

a reply to: Nikola014

What do you mean if they weren't there? They are the people who lived there, probably their whole life, and now they got some weapons, and all of the sudden they are terrorists? Of course, I won't be denying the fact, that many of these rebels are trained military people from Russia who came there later on to help on their own.

Interesting how you missed the AKA separatists part, but I expect you to cherry pick my reply so that really doesn't mean much.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Alexander Zakharchenko, prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, said the rebels were in the process of receiving some 150 armored vehicles, including 30 tanks, and 1,200 fighters who he said had spent four months training in Russia.

If that is the armored column that Ukraine got ahold of, I don't think they are going to be getting them anytime soon.

And yet Russia has nothing to do with the separatists...Sure they don't.

That can be arranged, simply by going to the main source in most cases....Bloomberg, Reuters, The Guardian.


a reply to: DJW001

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Ah yes Vice News the same news Youtube which has being quite friendly to the terrorists in Syria, its clear your deflecting his questions.

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Ah yes Reuters according to an a separatist leader said in a video released on Saturday. Is Reuters going to release the videos showing how bravely the Ukrankian forces destroyed the conveys?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

And yet Russia has nothing to do with the separatists...Sure they don't.

I am sure America has nothing to do with the Ukrankian Fascists whom are in Power or the candyman and i am quite sure America has nothing to do with the ISIS in Iraq/Syria

uk.reuters.com...

(Reuters) - Ukrainian rebels are receiving new armoured vehicles and fighters trained in Russia, with which they plan to launch a major counter-offensive against government forces, a separatist leader said in a video released on Saturday.

Alexander Zakharchenko, prime minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic, said the rebels were in the process of receiving some 150 armoured vehicles, including 30 tanks, and 1,200 fighters who he said had spent four months training in Russia.

Video at this link, if someone could be a love and embed it for us all.

www.telegraph.co.uk...< br />
The risk of outright war between the two most powerful former Soviet states was highlighted on Friday when Ukraine said it partially destroyed an armoured column that had crossed the border from Russia.

So we have Ukraine saying they partially destroyed an armoured column, that Russia say's they must be dreaming if they think it's ours.
Ukraine cry's foul to NATO.

Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin called on NATO to provide military support for Ukrainian troops.
uk.reuters.com...

I have done a search to TRY to find any video evidence of Russian military vehicles crossing Ukraine border
This is it, not much to go on, it's all I could find on youtube. Again sorry for not embedding.
www.youtube.com...


a reply to: keenasbro

a reply to: keenasbro

I am very happy at this news. I want to see overt actions.

The statement of Donetsk leader will reassure a lot of people.

There is no doubt that we have a war in Ukraine. And it is high time the combatants are known and come out of hiding.

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Ah yes Reuters according to an a separatist leader said in a video released on Saturday. Is Reuters going to release the videos showing how bravely the Ukrankian forces destroyed the conveys?

2 different things...?

Embedding fail.

originally posted by: Nikola014
Then, they would be even more pushed to a corner, and then, sanctions that Russia made against EU/US and a few other countries, would backfire against them? Then, I'm guessing, Russian economy would go to hell. Not to mention, losing Crimea.

I don't think Russia was ever interrested in Crimea, except for the Nuclear arsenal that was stationed there. My bet is, they're "mostly" removed.

The big problem with whole picture, is that the Revolution there ... makes the place unstable, and ... makes it highly likely that some nuclear weapon, will find itself on the road to the middle east. My take is, that "this" is the real reason for the destabilization of the region, along with the economic situation in EU/US. Another reason, is Russian gas ... while Russians can sell gas to Europe, Europe is dependant on Russia and Russia has stable income. Something the US of A, and parts of the EU, would be very much against. So, their interrests is in "destabilizing" this situation ...

Unfortunately, it's hard to debate the "real" issue, while we have all the McCarthy-paranoid-freeks around, or CIA in disguise guys, who run around yielling "The Russians are coming".

The question is, what is the US/EU endgame here ... while we'll have a lot of people yielling "freedom". I hate to even have to listen to such idiotic rhetoric. The end game, I am guessing ... is to force EU to make different arrangement for energy. And cut the dependancy link with Russia. Russia, on the other hand, with Putin ... thinks that his gas is a major piece on the board. And decided to "sacrifice" Russians in Ukraine, and wait to be able to play "be good, or we won't give you gas" play.

The Russians already lost the gameplay here ... in my opinion. My take is, this time next year ... Russians will really have a headache, of not having strong armed the situation in Ukraine.