Did Ukraine Attack Its Own Tanks?

a reply to: bjarneorn

yeah, I too agree Russia didn't actually want Crimea...

The Black Sea ports of Crimea provide quick access to the Eastern Mediterranean, Balkans and Middle East. Historically, possession of the southern coast of Crimea was sought after by most empires of the greater region since antiquity (Roman, Byzantine, Ottoman, Russian, British and French, Nazi German, Soviet).

worthless piece of dust and rocks...

Within 200 nautical miles of the Crimean shoreline there are an estimated 45 trillion cubic meters of gas reserves. Hydrocarbons in the Black Sea shelf could yield as much as 1.5 billion cubic meters per year.

nothing there...

Crimea also possesses several natural gas fields both onshore and offshore, all connected to Ukraine's pipeline system and were starting to be drilled by western oil and gas companies before annexation.

undeveloped wasteland...

Almost every settlement in Crimea is connected with another settlement with bus lines. Crimea contains the longest (96 km or 59 mi) trolleybus route in the world, stretching from Simferopol to Yalta.

Crimea possesses significant historical and natural resources and is a region where it is possible to find practically any type of landscape; mountain ranges and plateaus, grasslands, caves.

yeah, I doubt it was Crimea...

a reply to: demus


And for that matter, in no way does anyone else want it either.

Only regional powers would ever be involved, the fact of the gas companies and every other Cor-poration wanting it, that is just nothing, really...........................

a reply to: keenasbro

Which is rather unpleasant, because as explained above, without confirmation of a destroyed convoy, the whole story falls apart as merely yet another unprecedented warmongering fabrication, one involving not only the Kiev regime, but NATO and the UK press as well!

This crap is only going to get worse...they are all liars and damned bloody liars.

IF there was a Russian convoy of armoured vehicles a foot inside the border, the dozens of satellites scrutinising every inch of that very border would be sending clear images of them to every NATO HQ there is and those images would be on the net and being relayed to every Western media outlet within the day.

NO images, means just one thing...no Russian armour had crossed the border or indeed had been destroyed inside it.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Hundreds of people are being murdered by Kiev's relentless bombing and shelling of civilian areas.

What do you expect, the locals just leave the bodies to rot in the sunshine?

Not much good taking them to the bombed out morgue, the bombed out power station can't power the morgue freezers anyway!

It's common for people to be buried or cremated when they die if it's safe to do so, and not left out to rot and be eaten by hungry dogs.

Interesting article I found on the WRH site yesterday.
Seems the Ukraine has bought a number of old T-72 tanks from Hungary. The upshot is that Ukraine does not use the T-72, but Russia still does. Makes you wonder if these are to be painted up in Russian colours and strategically positioned somewhere near the Russian border for some Satellite snapshots and a reason for a wider conflict.

Use a translator.

www.hidfo.net...

Or maybe they just want them for scrap!

a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter

Ah yes Vice News the same news Youtube which has being quite friendly to the terrorists in Syria, its clear your deflecting his questions.

Well what question am I so called deflecting?

You see he said he has only seen a couple accidental deaths caused by the separatists and by that logic I had to show how well misinformed he was.

As far as VICE being used...Well I am sorry it wasn't one of your favorite Russian media outlets, but they seem to have a problem with reporting the truth when it comes to Ukraine.

Now can you deny the fact that there are mass graves with dead civilians because of the separatists and their indiscriminate killing of civilians?

a reply to: Britguy

The upshot is that Ukraine does not use the T-72, but Russia still does.

Are you sure about that?

T-72MP - modernization package for the T-72 by Ukrainian company KMDB, including improved engine, armour and fire control with sights SAVAN 15MP (gunner) and SAGEM VS (commander). The upgrade is built in co-operation with Sagem of France, and PSP Bohemia of the Czech Republic.[47]
T-72AM "Banan" - Ukrainian T-72A upgrade covered extensively with early generation "Kontakt-1" ERA tiles (V-shaped array around sides of turret and an array on sideskirts). It also has 6TD-1 or 6TD-2 diesel engine (1250 hp) from the T-84 and additional smoke grenade launchers.[1][37]
T-72AG - KMDB modernization package with components from the T-80UD, including improved engine 6TD-1, "Kontakt-5" armour, fire control system with TKN-4S and 1G46 sights, and main armament.[48]
T-72AMG - As T-72AG but retains the original engine.
T-72-120 - KMDB modernization package, including an auto-loaded main gun KBM2 capable of firing NATO 120 mm ammunition or ATGM.[49]
T-72E - Upgraded version of the T-72B ("E" stands for "Export") showed at IDEX 2011 and developed together with the T-64E. The hull front and sides are protected by Kontakt-1 ERA boxes, while the turret front, sides (sides' frontal part) and top is homogeneously protected by "Nozh" armor. The engine is upgraded, it is an 5TDFMA-1 multi-fuel diesel engine, developing 1050 hp. The tank features also air conditioning, day-and-night sighting system with integrated laser rangefinder and ATGM capability. The weight is 42.7 t, giving the tank a power/weight ratio of 24,6 hp/t.
BMT-72 - Ukrainian T-72 upgrade. The unique compact design of the Ukrainian-developed BMT-72 power pack, based on that of the T-84, made it possible not only to considerably increase the power capabilities of the vehicle, but also to introduce into the vehicle design a troop compartment. The troop compartment is located between the fighting compartment and the power pack compartment. In the troop compartment roof there is a set of three hatches in slightly raised portion of the hull roof behind turret that allow the troops to get in or dismount the vehicle. There are also steps on the end of each catwalk at rear of vehicle. The main visual difference between BMT-72 and T-72 is a seventh pair of roadwheels.[1][50]
BTS-5B - Ukrainian version of the BREM-1.

en.wikipedia.org...

OOPS! Looks like they do. Guess your upshot just got shot down.

a reply to: MysterX

What do you expect, the locals just leave the bodies to rot in the sunshine?

You didn't actually watch the video did you, because the locals are the ones who brought it to the attention that the separatists killed these civilians and not the shelling.

You do understand they are civilians that went missing because of the separatists which had kidnapped them, but of course it just easier to blame Ukraine instead of the real killers...what an interesting mindset you have there.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
OOPS! Looks like they do. Guess your upshot just got shot down.

One should also note that the Ukraine is listed as a former operator, as opposed to a current operator.

Small, but perhaps important distinction.

Interesting, that the White House backs up Russia on this one.
I mean they could easily have "confirmed" Ukraines story.

a reply to: tanka418

One should also note that the Ukraine is listed as a former operator, as opposed to a current operator.

And it should be noted that they retired most of them, but they do still have them.

Ukraine – 1,180[33] Most retired in favor of T-80 and T-84 some in reserve.

en.wikipedia.org...

It would not be the first time Ukranians fired on own troops

www.youtube.com...

If one takes into consideration that you have private armies equivalent of ss with their own divided l;oyalties ..paid by Ukranian Oligarchs fighting at night along with our CIA via Merks as in Libya..it becomes , for lack of a better description, the wild wild west, in the absence of a strong unified central command structure.Note the remark by ukr troops of another soldier not theirs as well as to the UKR checkpoint wiped out..
They have divided that up with their ministries. ith one having the real power even over the defense ministry..
But an assault on proven Russian troops..not Russian equipment which comprises the vast majority of weapons..would be a windfall a PR coup. ..with videos of Russian troops dead and demolished equipment..like the movie Patton..
But as in movies..We are in the middle of a Psyops Campaign battle of images and words....Yet we see no evidence no images...that such took place..if something did happen..I can see why Ukrainians would not dare publish such..especially..if it was friendly fire..or attempt to prevent a mass defection..in the middle of the night..
I don't think the latter.as the Russians would have a field day..like in the 400 Uks that defected...Either friendly fire..or it never happend..thus the White House silence ..the same as happened in MH17 matter from intentional murder to accidental....but that's another story..

a reply to: MysterX

IF there was a Russian convoy of armoured vehicles a foot inside the border, the dozens of satellites scrutinising every inch of that very border would be sending clear images of them to every NATO HQ there is and those images would be on the net and being relayed to every Western media outlet within the day.

NO images, means just one thing...no Russian armour had crossed the border or indeed had been destroyed inside it.

Much of the border is heavily wooded, allowing troops and equipment to stray across the unmarked border without being observed from above. In fact, the border is so obscured and ill marked in places (until recently it was an internal, not an international boundary) patrols from both sides probably stray across by accident all the time.

Both sides might intentionally be trying to create an incident so that they can complain that the other side crossed the border, or else fired across the border to attack a patrol that was still in its home territory.

a reply to: aLLeKs

Interesting, that the White House backs up Russia on this one.
I mean they could easily have "confirmed" Ukraines story.

Why do you conclude this?

"Did Ukraine Attack Its Own Tanks"

Well they did shoot their own people to kick off the revoloution and it also seems like they shoot down a passenger jet so it seems to be within their MO

When Russia invades (I hope they do) you will make no mistake about it.

a reply to: VirusGuard

"Did Ukraine Attack Its Own Tanks"

Why sacrifice their own assets in the face of an invasion. Makes no sense.

Well they did shoot their own people to kick off the revoloution

Says Russian propaganda. No evidence has ever been provided to prove the Russian claims of right wing snipers firing on civilians.

and it also seems like they shoot down a passenger jet so it seems to be within their MO

Everyone knows that the Fascist Pro-Russian separatists shot that plane down by accident.

When Russia invades (I hope they do) you will make no mistake about it.

Be careful what you wish for:



You must really hate the Russian people that you hope for this inevitable retaliation.

a reply to: DJW001

In the Netherlands now everyone knows "We don`t know who did it, and we might never know," our most watched news (MSM) had yesterday at prime time a reporter on the crash site saying...

"Was it an attack of the pro-Russian Separatists or was it an attack of the Ukrainian army, was it deliberately or an accident ?, we don`t know it, and maybe we will never know it."

So claiming everyone knows the pro-Russian Separatists shot the plane down is just total BS.