Traumatized by Christian Dogma & The Evangelical "Good News Club"

a reply to: pennydrops

penny, there's no reason for you to stop participating! You haven't offended anyone. I think Necrobile was just trying to explain why the thread seems to be "targeting" Christians.

It's really only targeting poor parenting; from a judgmental, negative, fear-inducing religious-upbringing point of view.

We've all agreed that there are very loving, good, honest, caring Christians. No argument against that at all.
But, of course, it's up to you. I've appreciated you being here.
Thanks.


EDIT:
That's a real shame that you deleted all of your posts. I thought they were very commendable and worthwhile, and contributed a lot to the dialogue.

originally posted by: pennydrops

Very sorry, I will not participate any longer.

I would prefer you to continue to participate, because all input is good input. I didn't mean to make you feel like you shouldn't be involved. I was just commenting on why this thread is about christians, and not just all influences in general.

I also apologize if I offended with my words, it was not my intent.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Solutions.

That's the sneaky part that no-one wants to talk about.

Solutions to this horrible trauma being put upon children.

What are the solutions. . . . . . .

a reply to: beezzer

That's exactly what I'm asking for, beez.

SOLUTIONS.

And for people not to just freak out that someone who leans "liberal" is speaking out about VERY REAL child neglect and psychological damage. It IS horrible when kids are taught they are worthless losers who are lucky they're alive at all, and will most likely end up in hell.

Or did you even read the article before jumping in to twist my intentions? Your sarcasm doesn't help with solutions.

I CLEARLY asked: "What can we do?" I'm talking about that - what we can do to make things better.

originally posted by: Chronogoblin
a reply to: Krazysh0t

Secondly, pretty sure there is a passage in the Bible about children and teens under a certain age, going to heaven automatically, so child death is not nearly so harsh as it may seem.

Just a couple of issues with this statement.
1. It's untrue. There is nothing in the bible about anyone getting a free pass and skipping to the head of the line.

2. To get into heaven under the rules of the Christian bible, you must first be baptized.

3. In krazyshots examples of Sodom and Gomorah, it was pre Christianity therefore pre baptism. Therefore none of them are getting into Christian heaven.

4. Unbaptized children supposedly go to Limbo which is nicer than purgatory but still no heaven.


It is, like hell or purgatory, based on early Christian doctrine with not a single mention in the bible about limbo. It's a simple tactic of controling a superstiious populace through fear.

The RCC was kind enough to revise their doctrine on limbo recently though.

www.vatican.va...

And even if the kids were getting a ride in the carpool lane to heaven, it still doesn't explain how Christians can reconcile the concept of a loving god who forgives us our sins, per J.C. With the utter wanton destruction and brutal violence that is the hallmark greeting of the OT god. Though I suppose it was easier to pull off when Christianity finally made it to the big leagues under Constantine having a vast population of mostly illiterate and uneducated peasants.

a reply to: peter vlar

It's a simple tactic of controling a superstiious populace through fear.

THANK YOU, peter vlar! That is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: beezzer

That's exactly what I'm asking for, beez.

SOLUTIONS.

And for people not to just freak out that someone who leans "liberal" is speaking out about VERY REAL child neglect and psychological damage.

This is what I fear (perhaps I am wrong, please correct me if I am)

When there is a public display of gun violence, people shed crocodile tears and weep and moan and gnash their teeth and ask that all guns be made illegal because of the children. They want stricter laws, more intrusion into lives. . . because of just a few idiots.

Now I see the horror of abuse being placed upon the children, and what am I waiting for? You guessed it. Government intrusion.

There will always be bad parents.
there will always be idiots who kill people.
There will always be idiots who want to cause harm, allow evil, permit destruction.

But do we, as a society, cede our freedoms of religious expression based upon a few?

Freedom is a double-edged sword. It allows wonderful things. But the dark side of freedom is that it also allows many nasty things to occur.

How much freedom are you willing to cede (on behalf of all people) to save the "children"?

Yep.

Religion is nothing more than a tool of control, based and built on guilt and fear. When I drive by churches on Sunday I remark to my girl, "Look at all the guilty feeling people!".

One doesn't need to believe in an imaginary sky-genie, whom you telepathically worship and request wishes to have morals.

a reply to: beezzer

I'm talking about EDUCATION. There are best-practices for raising healthy, contributing, functional kids. People who become parents need to know those things...
like NOT TO FEED THEIR KIDS NOTHING BUT JUNK. And NOT TO MAKE THEM FEEL LIKE CRAP based on religious Biblical interpretation.

Whatever. You've baited me sufficiently to lose my respect. Thanks for your posts.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

As much as you disregard religion, as is your right, do you think that it should still be allowed?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

And what would that "education" entail?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs


I have no problem with adults believing whatever it is that makes them happy as long as that belief system doesn't negatively affect or infringe on myself or my children. However, when you are utilizing fear as a primary motivation to get children (whose entire world consists primarily of what their parents expose them to) on board,pure hypocrisy from the perspective of what Christianity preaches, it crosses the line and inches dangerously close to child abuse.

There really is no way around it and the majority of adults, at least in America, will rationalize it as OK because in some twisted way they truly believe they are doing the best thing for their child and truly believe they ate saving that childs soul because they themselves are still in the grip of the same fears that were instilled in them during their own youthful indoctrination.

a reply to: peter vlar

Let me ask, do you think religions that don't allow modern medicines to treat their children is child abuse?

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: nfflhome

You sound like another Liberal trying to take another constitutional right away.

That's your opinion. I'm a secular person who knows about early childhood development and parenting issues.

I'm not trying to take away any rights. I'm trying to help the world become a less dreadful place. It begins with parenting.

Yea I wont lie. Have seen overbearing twisted christian "hag" tear a kid to shreds with early negative indoctrination of all the bad stuff. What happens is they are convinced that they are pure sinners early and just give up trying to be someone else. bates Hotel christianity. All your girl friends are whores especially blonds.

Conclusion? Its the person handling the kid. The twisted guilt ridden parent. Or just nasty hateful parent. And it could be anything long term negative reinforcement not just teachings out of the bible. You see it happen with parents on a number of points. "Why cant you be like your brother" ect "you will never amount to squat" ect. "you are going to grow up to be a..." ect.

Cant say I care much for the rainbow and unicorn type filling the kids head with nonsense. Pushing the princess myth on your girls can be a real stumbling block for those so indoctrinated.

a reply to: peter vlar

Precisely.
Thanks for acknowledging the points, peter. You stated it very well.

----------------------------
ETA:
And thanks to Logarock, too!! We've found common ground at last.


THAT is the point.

a reply to: beezzer

Good question.

I think religion is outdated, and is being used by a small minority to control the masses through fear.

It's much easier to listen and follow than to think for one's self. Religion has caused humanity great pain and suffering, and allowed horrible atrocities to be committed.

If we are to ever get off this rock and travel to the stars, we're going to have to re-evaluate how we view religion. I truly believe spirituality and religion are different. I can be "spiritual" without believing in some white-haired guy sitting on a throne behind some gates. I can meditate, and have a spiritual experience that has nothing to do with religion.

Religion represses and holds back progress, it diminishes the individual and glorifies the institution. What kind of God would create humans with the capacity to think for themselves, use logic and reason, yet demand unquestioning obedience? To me, that's just sick and cruel. That's a God I want no part of.

So, to answer your question succinctly: yes, it should be allowed, but I truly wish more people would *wake up* and walk away from it. The freedom to want to believe in a sky-genie that grants telepathic wishes should be allowed, but the absurdity of it should be recognized and thoroughly denounced.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: beezzer

I'm talking about EDUCATION. There are best-practices for raising healthy, contributing, functional kids. People who become parents need to know those things...
like NOT TO FEED THEIR KIDS NOTHING BUT JUNK. And NOT TO MAKE THEM FEEL LIKE CRAP based on mythology.

Whatever. You've baited me sufficiently to lose my respect. Thanks for your posts.

Well see now Buzzy you have drifted from a fair point about negative reinforcement to attacking christianity as mythology. You sort of said you were not going to do this although I personally didn't believe you. I have know many fair and loving christians that really love their kids and don't go in for screwing their kids up mentality. Even in the church most don't go for this approach negative but love their kids.

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Thank you for your reply.

I am a person of faith. I believe that faith and religion are two different things. Faith is individual, religion is simply the vehicle that provides for faith in society.

Perhaps if we allowed for freer expression of "faith" and not an endorsement of any "religion" we could find better solutions than dogma from the government or any particular religion.

a reply to: Logarock

I have know many fair and loving christians that really love their kids and don't go in for screwing their kids up mentality. Even in the church most don't go for this approach negative but love their kids.

So have I.

I'm talking about the ones who DO "go in for screwing their kids up" mentally, even though that is decidedly NOT their intention.
How many times do I have to state that I am trying only to educate people on outcomes? If you raise a kid with violence, poor nutrition, self-loathing, and psychologically induced fear - you will be providing the world with yet another violent, unhealthy, hater.

Is that what you want?

I didn't think so.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: peter vlar

Precisely.
Thanks for acknowledging the points, peter. You stated it very well.

----------------------------
ETA:
And thanks to Logarock, too!! We've found common ground at last.

THAT is the point.

I know a guy. Poor dude. He banged on his kids heads for years, digging dirt, looking for sin behind everything ect critical ect and his kids wont even come around anymore and his wife left him. One of his sons even went on to bible school but still thinks his dad has serious issues.