NASA Confirms New EM Thruster Violates Laws Of Conservation

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: Rob48

originally posted by: SLAYER69
a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

Very interesting, This is one to follow for sure. I get the feeling this may go the way of seeing the story being posted then it dies a strange and mysterious death into obscurity like so many other previous new breakthroughs we've all read about over the past couple of decades.

I hope I'm wrong though

There's a reason that happens. It turns out to be rubbish.

Honestly, if anyone could make free energy there would be literally NO STOPPING THEM. There is no way in the world that such a thing could be "suppressed". Think about it.

This potential propulsion system could be an exception if it doesn't violate actual energy production, but I am still sceptical. It is clear that Shawyer's original explanation for how it works was deeply flawed. If it does work, it doesn't work the way its inventor thought it did!

As for Blacklight, their black light has been illuminating the bottom of the hoax bin for years. Scam merchants, pure and simple.

Regardless of what works and what doesn't, why is Blacklight in this thread at all it only muddys the waters, the OP keeps making reference to Blacklight, almost as if Shawyer didn't exist, when he does and his idea is also his patent. It's no use either citing NASA, since so far, they go no further with a definitive answer, other that it seems to work, so to them they might use the 'halfway house' protocol.
So, that much I agree.

i think NASA is worthy of including because of their use of a similar device in several experiments and the conjunction with March and through him -Woodward who are also experts on this sort of device. plus thier paper supports the notion this class of device is not a kook thing or a scam.

a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

I find all of this quite convenient with the recent "reveal" from Astr0 not 2 days ago. This world is definitely ramping up for a major change.

Astr0 Reveal

I have a nagging feeling that the operating mechanism behind the microwave cavity device had it's surface scratched long ago, during the early development of vacuum tubes. The forces measured were so small though they were just considered some passing curiosity. The likes of Crookes, Rontgen and perhaps even later on Tesla had a look at this kind of stuff. Things like radio and wireless energy were more pressing concerns then, along with X-rays and nuclear science, so these little bits that weren't readily exploitable got pushed to the wayside.

However if you could find a way to exploit electron spin and get it to yield a linear force, you might have something.

I'm also curious if anyone knows whether there is change in the energy carried by an electron beam (or whatever momentum it equates to) in a device like a CRT when that beam is deflected by a magnetic field. (The first few pages of my internet searches didn't have much clear results.) If there's no loss measured, it might imply that it may be possible to change the inertial vector of a strongly charged object in a similar manner.

a reply to: pauljs75

It's possible.

I have this nagging feeling that none of them really understand what is going on, particularly Fetta and NASA.

Fetta will never get a good results because he's using MHD theory for his model, which we know is completely useless due to Alfven's work on the subject.

Shayer or the Chinese may have better luck. Hopefully he's familiarized himself with Alfven's work on the plasma. I can't tell from the article if that's the case or not.

edit, I take that back.

I'm not sure where I saw the MHD reference. I know I saw it somewhere.

originally posted by: glend
If we view mass as knotted space-time that takes energy to create which is released on its destruction (e=mc2) then all energy has a weight equivalence even if its so small we cannot detect with our current instruments. The EM Drive could be a wonderful breakthrough to understanding our environment. Thanks for sharing.

I like that, it is the difference between what works for us, and what works in the Universe. Should should we cease to exist right now there is no proper answer for, so we use the word potentionally. The Universe has no such conscience, is constantly in a motion and chaotic. This where I see the NASA take on Shawyer's idea.

a reply to: smurfy

"The Universe has no such conscience, is constantly in a motion and chaotic."

Very nice description.

originally posted by: AnarchoCapitalist
a reply to: pl3bscheese

So much anger!

Here's kittens for you:

bets argument ever made!
Winner!
X

This is great news.
suprised they let it out of the bag!
or will it disepear like many?

So much for then "hadron collider"
they have done this with out it!
a big wast of money.
they just like to Smash things?

should have given it to smal scienticsts.

originally posted by: stormbringer1701

i think NASA is worthy of including because of their use of a similar device in several experiments and the conjunction with March and through him -Woodward who are also experts on this sort of device. plus thier paper supports the notion this class of device is not a kook thing or a scam.

NASA's Ion drive still requires a direct exhaust like a put, put bike/AKA a blowlamp, as good as it is, and gives a working life of five years, likely a bit more.
Shawyer's idea is not the same, at all at all.

originally posted by: smurfy

originally posted by: stormbringer1701

i think NASA is worthy of including because of their use of a similar device in several experiments and the conjunction with March and through him -Woodward who are also experts on this sort of device. plus thier paper supports the notion this class of device is not a kook thing or a scam.

NASA's Ion drive still requires a direct exhaust, as good as it is, and gives a working life of five years, likely a bit more.
Shawyer's idea is not the same.

No; i am speaking of the QVPT not an ion engine. The QVPT is a Quantum Vacuum Plasma Thruster. it's primary means of action/operation is against the virtual particles in the vacuum and not an exhaust effect at all. it reacts against space itself. it is a project unto itself but is also used to produce the warp field for Dr White's warp bubble detection experiment.

en.wikipedia.org...

nextbigfuture.com...

In order for something like this to be discovered(or any tangible progress like a cure for Ebola) or created, you need the world's scientists working together. Each country working individually is way too expensive, redundant, and wasteful, and if one scientist happens to make a discovery, the others will never hear about it.

a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

I am interested in the concept of Anarcho-capitalism. Certainly nation-states have created a world without freedom. I mean this in the sense that there is no place in the world where one can go where he is not obliged to participate in some state in some fashion.

But Anarcho-capitalism, on the surface, seems to simply replace corruptible governments with corruptible corporations. Certainly the argument can be made that powerful corporations are the most corrupting influence on governments. How does Anarcho-capitalism address this risk? Thanks.

originally posted by: Dawgishly
a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

I am interested in the concept of Anarcho-capitalism. Certainly nation-states have created a world without freedom. I mean this in the sense that there is no place in the world where one can go where he is not obliged to participate in some state in some fashion.

But Anarcho-capitalism, on the surface, seems to simply replace corruptible governments with corruptible corporations. Certainly the argument can be made that powerful corporations are the most corrupting influence on governments. How does Anarcho-capitalism address this risk? Thanks.

Well I'm glad you asked!

Watch this brief video by Prof. David Friedman. It provides a great and relatively short introduction to how a voluntary society might operate.



As you note, there are no free societies on the planet at this time, so exactly how things would be worked out is something we can only make educated guesses about. Determining the best structure of private government is something the markets would have to work out. This can only happen when people are allowed to freely associate with one another and contract for the civil services they want in their lives.

a reply to: AnarchoCapitalist

The only thing it proves, is NASAs incompetence. If what you say is true, they are not scientists, its as simple as that. But than one has seen that pos Verner NASA is just bogus.

What would this drive 'sound' like from outside of a craft?? At sea level, for instance...
If there'd be any sound at all?

It is a time NASA abandons conservative scientific taboos and opens up for the real stuff. As well as all the rest agencies and labs involved in that. Saucers do fly and that is a matter of fact proven by hundreds of thousands common people! We can have unlimited energy from that same sort of propulsion or whatever it is called. Wait more "humanity to be ready"- wait what? Ebola and cancer from radiation to kill us all? Will then the Nay sayers have any further argument? But they will hide in rabbit holes at that time. The time to act is NOW.

Let the Alcubierre hyper drive be approved too, and the route to other already known habitable planets to be open once and for all! If the humanity is not grown up enough to be told of extraterrestrials, sure it is grown up enough to see the warp drives already shown on movies. To see the planets NASA already said they exist. And to decide at least the minimum number of problems to allow continuation of humanity and not the next extinction event on geological timeline.

cool. F%$# politics for a sec... can we talk about the technology here?

May I just point out that, if this thing does work (and so far, it seems to),

it does not violate any of the laws of physics.

Here is what EmDrive's inventor, Roger Shawyer, says about it.

the technology is firmly anchored in the basic laws of physics and following an extensive review process, no transgressions of these laws have been identified.

This is what the NASA group reporting on the latest test results said about it:

Test results indicate that the RF resonant cavity thruster design, which is unique as an electric propulsion device, is producing a force that is not attributable to any classical electromagnetic phenomenon and therefore is potentially demonstrating an interaction with the quantum vacuum virtual plasma. Future test plans include independent verification and validation at other test facilities.

No conservation laws are being violated.

Things are starting to get very interesting in life.

originally posted by: AnarchoCapitalist
Well I'm glad you asked! Watch this brief video by Prof. David Friedman. It provides a great and relatively short introduction to how a voluntary society might operate.

Done in the style of the famous RSA presentations, but a bit slower paced. Thanks for that, I enjoyed it.

Now, we're somewhat derailing this thread, methinks. Surely there is another thread in which you already discussed this topic and any questions about this system might be adressed - where does it reside, so anybody that wants to discuss anarcho capitalism could join there?