Gaza's ONLY power plant shut down by Israeli shelling

originally posted by: miniatus
a reply to: sosobad

Well one of the big problems Israel faces is that Hamas has embedded itself with the Palestinians .. nothing short of Palestinians revolting against Hamas will really root them out..

Hamas puts the rockets/launch sites near civilian areas knowing full well that Israel will fire back on those targets.. the result is civilian casualties which in turn results in sympathy for Hamas.

Hamas has launched from locations near schools, medical facilities, civilian housing.. so of course when Israel takes out those sites there are civilians right there... and reports from the ground have stated that Hamas won't let civilians flee those areas.. Civilian deaths HELP Hamas because it causes the international community to put pressure on Israel .. Hamas even launches rockets during cease fires that Israel honored.

So again, short of the civilians revolting against Hamas, I don't see other ways to resolve this .. perhaps a ground invasion, but that would do more harm than good .. Israel could always just stop it's offensive and continue to allow Hamas to fire rockets at them .. but that's foolish as well... Don't forget, Israel has been pretty much under a non-stop barrage of rocket fire for a long time, they usually just let the missile defense system knock them down but that is not only NOT 100% effective, it's extremely costly.

You know that old 'thousands of rockets are being fired at israel' line is wearing really thin when most if not all of them are stopped and there is innocent men women and children being slaughtered and now living without basic utilities in the biggest open air prison in the world. It actually makes me physically sick listening to the justifications now. The people of Gaza are locked in there no electricity no proper sewage and no water in parts of it. This is a humanitarian crime.

Also worth mentioning that the Palestinians have said it would take a year to repair the plant, and also worth noting that Israel provides power to the area as well, though those lines have been damaged...

originally posted by: sosobad
You know that old 'thousands of rockets are being fired at israel' line is wearing really thin when there is innocent men women and children being slaughtered and now living without basic utilities in the biggest open air prison in the world. It actually makes me physically sick listening to the justifications now. The people of Gaza are locked in there no electricity no proper sewage and no water in parts of it. This is a humanitarian crime.

So as the leader of your country, charged with defending your citizens.. your response would be to not retaliate and just let that annoying neighbor keep lobbing rockets at your citizens? that would go over well with your population I'm sure.. The last time Israel conducted an operation like this was 4-5 years ago.. in the mean time they've sat there as Hamas lobbed rockets at them while those hugely expensive missile defense systems fire away.. each missile costs a huge amount of money.. and it's not 100% effective

I'm sorry, but that's unacceptable... the humanitarian crime here is Hamas conveniently launching it's rockets from sites near civilians knowing full well they are putting them in harms way.. there's no way that is not intentional.. Israel's stated goal is to stop Hamas rocket fire... Hamas could end this by... ready for this? .. STOP firing rockets, especially from populated locations.. but no, Hamas won't do that.. the civilian death toll is just too convenient for them.

And I will state again.. Israel has agreed to cease fires, which is intended for humanitarian purposes and to even honor a recent holiday.. but Hamas broke the cease fires by firing more rockets.. Israel held back for four years while Hamas continued after the last offensive.. Israel has shown that when Hamas isn't firing at them, they aren't firing at Hamas.

the took out 1/3 of their fuel storage and it's their own fault no tears here. With a crew the power should be back on in a day but they will whine about it for months. Take out their sewage treatment see how they like that.

treating them way too humanely
+

originally posted by: mikell
the took out 1/3 of their fuel storage and it's their own fault no tears here. With a crew the power should be back on in a day but they will whine about it for months. Take out their sewage treatment see how they like that.

treating them way too humanely
+

Actually that's not true.. the report I saw said the turbines and other equipment have been burned out by the fire.. and that they estimate it would take about a year to repair, but as I said before.. Israel also supplies them with power.. so while it may be their only plant, it's not their only source of power..

a reply to: sosobad

The people of Gaza are locked in there no electricity no proper sewage and no water in parts of it. This is a humanitarian crime.

They have become their own worst enemy.

Siege measures are usually designed to conquer a city or country, but in this case Israel already owns the land of Gaza.

This is a battle of ideology and will.

Nothing short of prostration on the altar will convince Israel to stop murdering them by the score.

All of Gaza must bow to Jerusalem and admit they aren't worthy.

What a quandary they have pickled themselves into.

a reply to: miniatus

You make good points...and while you are quick to justify why Israel uses force, you fail to include *why* hamas or gaza would feel justified/pushed to do the same.

The only solution is nonviolence, basic human rights and prosperity for both sides.

originally posted by: miniatus

originally posted by: sosobad
You know that old 'thousands of rockets are being fired at israel' line is wearing really thin when there is innocent men women and children being slaughtered and now living without basic utilities in the biggest open air prison in the world. It actually makes me physically sick listening to the justifications now. The people of Gaza are locked in there no electricity no proper sewage and no water in parts of it. This is a humanitarian crime.

So as the leader of your country, charged with defending your citizens.. your response would be to not retaliate and just let that annoying neighbor keep lobbing rockets are your citizens? that would go over well with your population I'm sure.. The last time Israel conducted an operation like this was 4-5 years ago.. in the mean time they've sat there as Hamas lobbed rockets at them

I'm sorry, but that's unacceptable... the humanitarian crime here is Hamas conveniently launching it's rockets from sites near civilians knowing full well they are putting them in harms way.. there's no way that is not intentional.. Israel's stated goal is to stop Hamas rocket fire... Hamas could end this by... stop firing rockets, especially from populated locations.. but no, Hamas won't do that.. the civilian death toll is just too convenient for them.

How do not see how one sided this conflict is? Who is dying by the hundreds? You put it perfectly when you said annoying neighbours, their rockets get intercepted and stopped but you still think it is ok to kill children because of them. Very hard to blame Hamas when Israel strikes playgrounds hospitals mosques and schools, they have one of the most advanced militaries in the world and all they manage to do is kill civilians.

a reply to: sosobad

It's not a bad analogy really but, similarly, people damn sure can't agree on Stand Your Ground laws here in the U.S. and the abuse of such...not surprisingly those who support Stand Your Ground likely support the shelling of citizens in Gaza. It's fascinating.

originally posted by: sosobad
How do not see how one sided this conflict is? Who is dying by the hundreds? You put it perfectly when you said annoying neighbours, their rockets get intercepted and stopped but you still think it is ok to kill children because of them. Very hard to blame Hamas when Israel strikes playgrounds hospitals mosques and schools, they have one of the most advanced militaries in the world and all they manage to do is kill civilians.

Oh I never said it wasn't one sided.. but you act like iron dome is 100% effective (it's actually about 75%) and you seem to think that just because Hamas' weapons aren't as sophisticated that it's acceptable to just let them fire rockets at israel's people

And no it's very EASY to blame Hamas when they are launching their rockets FROM playgrounds, hospitals, mosques and schools.. Why do you think Hamas does that? I wonder..

Look at it this way.. lets say Mexico started lobbing rockets into texas and california and we had some iron dome missiles there that could knock down 90% ( actually the percentage reported is more like 75% but I'll humor you ) .. Do you think the US citizens would tolerate their government not taking action to stop the rockets from being fired? would you find it ok that 10% of those rockets get through? .. ( more like 25% ) .. there's more to this .. as the leader of the country, it's your duty to respond to threats.. it's not your duty to sit back and watch someone firing at you with 25% getting through.

Hamas has a lot of blame for embedding their launch sites near civilians.. they do that to deter a response and if that doesn't work, they get international sympathy anyway.. just pop up another launch site.

Israel gains nothing by purposely slaughtering civilians.. nothing at all .. well no, they get international pressure against them.

Ps. you might be surprised but I am not only not Jewish but I typically am not on the side of Israel in other matters.. but I do understand the responsibility of ending threats against your people... Hamas won't stop firing, even in the 4 years Israel wasn't doing much to stop them

Israel COULD have taken this power plant out in the first 30 seconds of their operation but they CHOSE not to. Hamas refuses to cease their operation of rockets and tunnel incursions so Israel took out the power plant. I am totally fine with that. War is tough and unpleasant, I have seen people die standing right beside me and it sucks. No power to the enemy is what you do in a war. You can like it or not like it but no power generally will get one side to the table to talk (especially in this situation). It is easy to sit on the sideline and say this is wrong and that is wrong without being in Gaza or Israel and living it yourself. The people of Israel have the right to stop the rockets from raining down on them and Hamas can choose to keep firing them all day long. Nothing will change, we will be right back here in 10-15 years doing the same thing all over again. People have been killing each other over land in this part of the world for thousands of years and it will not be stopping anytime soon sadly.

Iran loves this, they are sitting pretty in Tehran while Hamas fights their fight against Israel and Iran gets to keep supplying rockets. What do you think will happen when Iran gets a bomb? Will they ship a small warhead to Gaza and detonate it in Israel? Maybe, maybe not, doing so would ruin the land Israel sits on. Time will tell I guess.

The UN is a useless mass of steaming crap. There are very few times when the UN actually does anything useful. Permanent members with veto power routinely veto and block resolutions which is a waste of time and energy. Russia/China vote opposite of the US/Britain and the beat goes on and on. They spend weeks arguing over verbs and adjectives in proposed resolutions until the final version is so generic and useless that nothing useful is in the document and rarely is the UN stopping any conflict it seems to me.

I keep hearing "genocide genocide genocide"

This catchphrase is getting old

If Isreal really wanted to commit genocide they would unleash everything they have on Palestine. They are well within their capabilities to wipe Palestine off the face of the earth if they were so inclined. And then deal with the consequences ...

Hamas has it in their damn charter plain as day to irradicate Isreal. But it's Isreal that gets pinned w the genocide bs just because they have bigger bombs. Stop it.

If Hamas had the capability there wouldn't be anything left of Isreal standing....

How can you accuse Israel of this but absolutely ignore the fact that Hamas is open not only in it's cause and charter but it it's television programs, that it wants to destroy the Jews


This blatant willful ignorance is disgraceful.

originally posted by: miniatus

originally posted by: sosobad
How do not see how one sided this conflict is? Who is dying by the hundreds? You put it perfectly when you said annoying neighbours, their rockets get intercepted and stopped but you still think it is ok to kill children because of them. Very hard to blame Hamas when Israel strikes playgrounds hospitals mosques and schools, they have one of the most advanced militaries in the world and all they manage to do is kill civilians.

Oh I never said it wasn't one sided.. but you act like iron dome is 100% effective (it's actually about 75%) and you seem to think that just because Hamas' weapons aren't as sophisticated that it's acceptable to just let them fire rockets at your people..

And no it's very EASY to blame Hamas when they are launching their rockets FROM playgrounds, hospitals, mosques and schools.. Why do you think Hamas does that? I wonder..

Look at it this way.. lets say Mexico started lobbing rockets into texas and california and we had some iron dome missiles there that could knock down 90% ( actually the percentage reported is more like 75% but I'll humor you ) .. Do you think the US citizens would tolerate their government not taking action to stop the rockets from being fired? would you find it ok that 10% of those rockets get through? .. ( more like 25% ) .. there's more to this .. as the leader of the country, it's your duty to respond to threats.. it's not your duty to sit back and watch someone firing at you with 25% getting through.

Hamas has a lot of blame for embedding their launch sites near civilians.. they do that to deter a response and if that doesn't work, they get international sympathy anyway.. just pop up another launch site.

Israel gains nothing by purposely slaughtering civilians.. nothing at all .. well no, they get international pressure against them.

They also get the last bit of the Palestinians land in Gaza, a land I might add has 1.4 trillion cubic feet of gas that Israel has been selling to British gas illegally
www.globalresearch.ca...

Here is the thread I made on it
www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: sosobad
They also get the last bit of the Palestinians land in Gaza, a land I might add has 1.4 trillion cubic feet of gas that Israel has been selling to British gas illegally
www.globalresearch.ca...

Here is the thread I made on it
www.abovetopsecret.com...

As ManBehindTheMask stated, if they wanted it they could easily take it .. they are bombing rocket launch sites, which Hamas has conveniently placed at civilian sites.. As ManBehindTheMask has also stated, Hamas' stated goal is to wipe out the Jews.. It's really dumbfounds me that you think Israel should just fold it's hands and watch Palestine rain bombs on them while 25% get through the missile defense system at a cost of $50 million per battery... you seem to think it's ok that Israel should just accept the risk to it's citizens for some reason and not retaliate.. you think this is all about a land grab when the majority of Israelis support a two state solution in the first place.. the citizens of Israel don't support a land grab like that.

originally posted by: miniatus

originally posted by: sosobad
They also get the last bit of the Palestinians land in Gaza, a land I might add has 1.4 trillion cubic feet of gas that Israel has been selling to British gas illegally
www.globalresearch.ca...

Here is the thread I made on it
www.abovetopsecret.com...

As ManBehindTheMask stated, if they wanted it they could easily take it .. they are bombing rocket launch sites, which Hamas has conveniently placed at civilian sites.. As ManBehindTheMask has also stated, Hamas' stated goal is to wipe out the Jews.. It's really dumbfounds me that you think Israel should just fold it's hands and watch Palestine rain bombs on them while 25% get through the missile defense system at a cost of $50 million per battery... you seem to think it's ok that Israel should just accept the risk to it's citizens for some reason and not retaliate.. you think this is all about a land grab when the majority of Israelis support a two state solution in the first place.. the citizens of Israel don't support a land grab like that.

What do you call that then? Sure as hell looks like a land grab to me.

originally posted by: NeverMind2013
This has to be the final straw, the world cannot, cannot sit on their collective hands and say "Israel has the right to defend themselves. This is not Defense, this is OUTRIGHT SLAUGHTER. The Homemade Bottle Rockets is more of an act of Defiance than and act of War.
This is JUST SICK!!!

Who cares right ? Those "Evil" muslims get killed, hurrrayyyy. Soon the fanboys of Israeli regime will pop up and tell you how Hamas were using the poweplant to fire rockets from and how it's a legit target.

a reply to: BlackNWhite

Yes because Hamas would never use a building for storage of their rockets and they never use innocent children as a shield.

a reply to: sosobad

I call that a consequence of war

When you and other countries attack someone and get your butt whooped what do you expect?

a reply to: BlackNWhite

I think it's fair to say both sides have their fan boys...that's part of the problem. The issue is viewed solely through the lens of entrenched positions. We need a new strategies for peace in the region because the same old/same old hasn't worked for half a century.