US: No evidence of direct Russian link to plane

I think we can rule out that a BUK missile was used to dowen MH17.

If a BUK missile had hit the MH17 it would have immidiatly been set on fire do to the enormous heat created when the missiles fuze exploded. The very hot fragments penetrating the body of the Mh17 would have set the airliner on fire. MH17 was also heavy on fuel.

By looking at the video at the point the MH17 hit the ground. There are no solid smoke trail from where Mh17 was hit at 33 000 ft. There were barly any smoke present until it hit the ground.

I am prity sure now that it was the Ukrainan SU-25 that did this.

Give me a star: I have solved the riddle

a reply to: Sparkymedic

FAA has banned flights in dangerous areas, including where airliner was shot down over Ukraine, since april.

Why some flighst was directed over that area?

According to eyewitness reports, the ukrainian military aircrafts used civilian flights for cover many times.

Photojournalism-investigation by a BBC correspondent Olga Ivshyna shot around the Boeing 777 crash near Donetsk, suddenly disappeared from the site and YouTube-channel (of the BBC) portal. The disappearance of the story drew attention of bloggers. Now they wonder why the material was gone, and not whether it is a manifestation of censorship by the TV channel guide.

Russian, so you have to trust me:

Eyewitnesses at 0:30: plane was followed by a military aircraft, we and many others hear two explosions... We could see the military plane because it was on lower altitude than the Boeing...

Another eyewitness at 0:46: after the explosions the plane change trajectory (turned back) and fly into another direction.

originally posted by: ressiv
sooooo we can state now that the ukrain messed up with flight 17..
and becourse the western country's will still support ukrain ...it was an accident....... right???
my god wat an world we living in

No, not the Ukraine, the Ukrainian Rebels that sides with Russia, the West doesn't support them! Also, the West isn't saying Putin didn't have a hand in it, they are basically saying there is no proof Russia directly fired the missile.

a reply to: wulff

The biggest problem is the lack of any evidence... from the party involved... Have Ukraine released the immediately confiscated traffic controller voice records?



Malaysia Flight 17 Exposed! All The Evidence of A ‘False Flag’ Event!

a reply to: maghun

Interesting...

The rebels refuse access to the site for 4 days.
They loot the bodies / crime scene.
They leave bodies in the open for 4 days.
They start destroying the crime scene by removing debris.
They cut the cockpit in half.

The only thing that shows is the rebels are responsible and are desperately trying to blame any one else with the assistance of Russia.

That is what the video that you posted shows.

if the rebels were innocent they would not have done what they did to the crime scenes.

a reply to: Xcathdra

That is what the video that you posted shows.

It shows the opposite of it.

They cut the cockpit in half.

The rebels cut the cockpit in Half care to prove that one?

The only thing that shows is the rebels are responsible are desperately trying to blame any one else with the assistance of Russia.

Since the day of the downing of the airliner no western government had presented any proof nor evidence that the rebels other then the claims and propaganda made by western news networks in order to justify there claims that Russia was somehow behind it, it only took few hours after the crash, to finger point at Russia and this isn't the first time.


From the link.

the media has people so brainwashed that when I talk about the possability of this calamity being a false flag they call me a lunatic. very disheartning. does anyone have have any suggestions on how I should bring topics like this up. While not offending people.

For some reason when all this anti Russian sentiment from US politicians began, i started wondering what the income tax rate there was since they were acting like Russia was so evil. I was amazed to discover they have a flat tax rate of 13% for everyone compared to our 39.6%. Apparently Putin did it to stop the flow of money to black projects and shadow government. Of course they can't have that low tax rate exposing the nefarious and wasteful taxation without representation here so what do ya do...Sanctions. That's just what I'm seeing and I could be wrong but...I don't think I am.

a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter

No, it doesnt.

MH17 Evidence Tampering Fears: Cockpit Was 'Hacked Into', Says OSCE

European monitors say pieces of the Malaysia Airlines plane that was allegedly shot down in eastern Ukraine have been moved and "hacked into", adding to fears that pro-Russian rebels have been tampering evidence.

Officials from the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe at the scene said that they saw uniformed men cutting into the Boeing 777's cockpit and part ofthe first-class cabin with a diesel-powered saw two days ago.

Other pieces were also later changed or moved, OSCE spokesman Michael Bociurkiw said.

"[They tampered with] major pieces, I'm looking at the tailfin ... they do look different than when we first saw them, in that they have been cut into," Bociurkiw told the BBC world service. "One main cone section has been almost split in half."

click link for remainder of article.

originally posted by: maghun
a reply to: wulff
The biggest problem is the lack of any evidence... from the party involved... Have Ukraine released the immediately confiscated traffic controller voice records?

Such records are not to be released to the public - they are ALWAYS "seized" in air accident investigations and given to the investigating authority - not newspapers!

ICAO Annex 13 section 5.12 specifically requires that the records NOT be released - ref (e)

Non-disclosure of records
The State conducting the investigation of an accident or incident shall not make the following records available for purposes other than accident or incident investigation, unless the appropriate authority for the administration of justice in that State determines that their disclosure outweighs the adverse domestic and international impact such action may have on that or any future investigations:
a) all statements taken from persons by the investigation authorities in the course of their investigation;
b) all communications between persons having been involved in the operation of the aircraft;
c) medical or private information regarding persons involved in the accident or incident;
d) cockpit voice recordings and transcripts from such recordings;
e) recordings and transcriptions of recordings from air traffic control units;
f) cockpit airborne image recordings and any part or transcripts from such recordings; and
g) opinions expressed in the analysis of information, including flight recorder information.

(from New Zealand CAA website)

originally posted by: spy66
I think we can rule out that a BUK missile was used to dowen MH17.
If a BUK missile had hit the MH17 it would have immidiatly been set on fire do to the enormous heat created when the missiles fuze exploded. The very hot fragments penetrating the body of the Mh17 would have set the airliner on fire. MH17 was also heavy on fuel.

Most of tht airliner does not contain any fuel - the damage to the cockpit skin shows that the fragments may not have hit the wings at all, and hence there is no reason to suppose the aircraft caught fire in the air.

By looking at the video at the point the MH17 hit the ground. There are no solid smoke trail from where Mh17 was hit at 33 000 ft. There were barly any smoke present until it hit the ground.

There is no video of the whole of the sky from the time MH17 was hit.

I am prity sure now that it was the Ukrainan SU-25 that did this.

If it had fired a missile that would have left a smoke trail too - your own logic tells you that actually NOTHING shot it down!

That alone should convince you you need to think about it a bit more

Give me a star: I have solved the riddle

Or maybe take one away.....

Have anybody seen this thing. It is located within the wreckage.

a reply to: spy66
Got a source for the picture?

Edit: The journalist is probably Noah Sneider - there's a transcript of one of his reports here - nothing about a bit of any missile actually being in eth wreckage.

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
a reply to: spy66
Got a source for the picture?

Here it is again it shows up at 1 min 58 sec.

It look way to small to be a BUK???




www.liveleak.com...

a reply to: spy66
Got it thanks.

Looks like a pitot tube or similar - but it isn't a 777 one. I'll do some more digging see if it is anything obvious.

originally posted by: Aloysius the Gaul
a reply to: spy66
Got it thanks.

Looks like a pitot tube or similar - but it isn't a 777 one. I'll do some more digging see if it is anything obvious.

Thanks

Just reading the latest news and found this: "Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe spokesman Michael Bociurkiw said the fuselage was an “extraordinary finding” and that parts of the wreckage that the team inspected yesterday had “almost machinegun types of holes".

Could the Ukraine fighting jet shoot down the plane using machine gun fire? Would explain all the holes in the plane and would explain why there wasn’t a big trail of smoke from a missile.

Source - www.news.com.au... 00952665

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Looks like it might run through the ceiling.

airchive.com...

Between the frame rails on the outside right, there appears to be a large copper tube running down along the rails.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Looks like it might run through the ceiling.

airchive.com...

Between the frame rails on the outside right, there appears to be a large copper tube running down along the rails.

Got a better Picture. I cant see what you are trying to show us here?

a reply to: nitestrider

There would have been huge holes in the plane, not "machine gun style" holes. That sounds like shrapnel damage, not bullets. Bullets wouldn't have caused it to come apart in midair the way it did.

The smallest gun used on a fighter is 20mm. Against an unarmored aircraft, that would have left very large holes. The Su-25 uses a 30mm, which would have been even bigger.

www.upload.ee...

That is a Spitfire in WWII hit by what appears to be a 20mm canon. It would be obvious if a 777 was hit by gunfire from a fighter. It's not like WWII anymore, where they have 6 .50 cal machine guns in the wings. They go for a big gun now.

a reply to: nitestrider

There's no way an Su-25 could get close enough the 777 to hit it. The Gsh-30-2 might have an effective range of up to 1,000 meters. I couldn't find an exact range on it and if anything that's an overestimate. The Su-25's service ceiling is about 3,000 meters below the altitude MH-17 was at. Even if the Su-25 managed to get up to 33,000 feet the 777 would be going too fast for the Gsh-30-2 to be effective in anyway.

a reply to: spy66

That's the best I can find right now. Start just above where the guy is standing on the right, under the removed panels you'll see some white between the two green rails. Go towards the top of the picture, and there's a large copper pipe.