US: No evidence of direct Russian link to plane

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

Wikipedia Happened. Why anyone would believe that Ukraine doesn't have the same military vehicles/ systems as Russia is beyond me. Idiots abound!

a reply to: DeadSeraph

Based on the first video you posted, we are supposed to believe THAT as evidence? Seriously?

Could it have been blown out of the sky by BUK SAM system? Sure. Could it have been Ukrainian, Russian or Russian separatists which operated the SAM launcher? Sure. Do we know 100% who, why or how? NOPE! And we might not for a quite a long time. Until then, hope for the best in that region. The information war is full blown are you are taking it hook, line and sinker.

Take all information around MH-17 with a grain of salt and stop to ask REAL questions of BOTH sides. Hell, we really don't even know what truly happened to TWA-800, American Airlines-11, 77, United-175 or 93. Sure they crashed, but why and how? Based on the "investigation", the causes are basically assumptions. And that wasn't even in a war-zone.

What makes you think you have this all figured out in a few days, with the ONLY (weak) evidence being SOCIAL MEDIA?

a reply to: Sparkymedic

Really? The only evidence the rebels brought down MH17 is social media? Why the coverup of the crash site? Why did they cut the plane up and ship parts of it off on trucks? If they wanted to get at the bodies because they had noble ambitions to recover the remains, why did they leave a bunch of corpses in the field and loot the passengers belongings? Why are there VIDEOS of all of these things happening, while simultaneously there are videos of separatist commanders saying they are doing the opposite of everything they were just filmed doing?

Do you see where I am going with this? You can't trust anything they say and they have PROVEN IT time and time again, yet your own distrust of the U.S government blinds you to this fact. It can't be any other way, because CONSPIRACY.

The rebels (and the Russians I might add) have lied and been caught in lies every step of the way throughout this entire conflict, starting with the invasion of Crimea. Yet you are going to tell me that their own words, video, and admissions aren't good enough because SOCIAL MEDIA. Yet conveniently ignore all the steps they have taken to cover their own tracks? Remarkable. What's it like in lala land?

Yes, governments are full of lies. We know this, and would probably wonder why they didn't lie, if we knew something they said were 100% truthful.

Given that, Russia and the US had nothing directly to do with this terrible deckle. It was done by people with no respect for humanity and just hate the position they have in the world. I go farther back than that and partially blame Malaysia Airlines, for allowing a travel route over a war zone. The two together are the fuels in this fire. IMHO.

originally posted by: DeadSeraph
a reply to: Sparkymedic

Really? The only evidence the rebels brought down MH17 is social media? Why the coverup of the crash site? Why did they cut the plane up and ship parts of it off on trucks? If they wanted to get at the bodies because they had noble ambitions to recover the remains, why did they leave a bunch of corpses in the field and loot the passengers belongings? Why are there VIDEOS of all of these things happening, while simultaneously there are videos of separatist commanders saying they are doing the opposite of everything they were just filmed doing?

Do you see where I am going with this? You can't trust anything they say and they have PROVEN IT time and time again, yet your own distrust of the U.S government blinds you to this fact. It can't be any other way, because CONSPIRACY.

The rebels (and the Russians I might add) have lied and been caught in lies every step of the way throughout this entire conflict, starting with the invasion of Crimea. Yet you are going to tell me that their own words, video, and admissions aren't good enough because SOCIAL MEDIA. Yet conveniently ignore all the steps they have taken to cover their own tracks? Remarkable. What's it like in lala land?

Sorry I deal in reality, not la la land. Social media is on the internet. The internet is hackable. Therefore nothing you read or hear on the internet SHOULD be considered TRUTH. Especially when it has to do with shady shadows like US/EU/NATO/Ukraine/Russia. Get real, they are the puppets on the stage - you bought your tickets (joined ATS) but you insist the show is REAL. (Picked a side)

The US/EU/NATO and Ukraine have all lied too. What's your point? That governments lie?

Which is why I DON'T trust government...PERIOD - separatist or not. Anyone who does is a total moron. I don't trust Mainstream Media. And I CERTAINLY don't trust social media as the sole source to charging someone/organization/government with mass murder to possibly kick start a world war of biblical proportions.

I think I have already said this or to someone else or in another link, but, I doubt we will ever really know what happened to MH17, OR 370 for that fact...unless the culprits admit what they have done - or the evidence is irrefutable. Otherwise it'll just be name calling and finger pointing until that happens.

Feel free to believe whatever you want.

You have clearly picked sides. Enjoy your stay and let the CONSPIRACIES RESUME

a reply to: maghun

Subliminal slip on the front page of USA Today today? Copy says "Plane Hacked", and while this was a figurative expression about the Ukraine MH17 being cut in two by someone with a saw, there is an obvious double meaning. Many believe that MH370 was computer hacked, and flown by remote control when it was disappeared over the Indian ocean, and since MH17 was apparently off course, was it also digitally hacked and commandeered?

a reply to: kenboe

Seriously though. It would be "relatively" easy to do. Possibly not in a technical sense, but in a make something look like it's not sense...probably pretty easy. I'm sure they could take-over communications too. No one would be the wiser. Might explain why it was where it was and why it was roughly 1000 ft below the "hard-deck" so to speak and quote Top Gun for the first time ever...

And the bad decisions made by the rebels? They have made many...but can you blame them? I've never been in a war-zone, let alone one in my own country - or neighboring country...but I can't imagine it's all too stable or fun to be in....let alone not chaotic and peaceful to allow logic to prevail at every turn. Especially when you are the force that doesn't have easy access to weaponry like Su25 attack aircraft, but tends to see them up close, often it seems.

Both sides are to blame for the tragedy. No matter the conspiracy angle, no matter your opinion, belief or bias, political or religious...both sides will always be wrong when it comes to justifying murder. The fact that we allow military's to exist...the fact that we allow ourselves to be pawns in a game the elite play...the fact that if it was a war machine instead of a civilian transport - MURDER WOULD THEN BE JUSTIFIED, is disgusting and dishonorable to our fellow human brothers and sisters.

Ideology, smydeology!

War is a RACKET!

a reply to: Sparkymedic

If the rebels accidentally shot down a civilian aircraft, how is Ukraine responsible for it?

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica Thanks for that! It took me 5 minutes to stop laughing.

It's odd to me that well over 50% of posts are from people who simply hate the U.S., and any of their allies. They happily support things like Russia, Putin, Saddam, they defend terrorist organizations, and blame the U.S. for -any- problem in the world.

I really have to wonder sometimes, if this is an anti-U.S. site. Because it often seems that way to me.

No one has proof of anything yet. You don't KNOW anything. Your bias and hate towards anything U.S. makes you THINK you know what happened.. but you really don't. Just a helpful tip from someone trying to bring you down from cloud-conspiracy.

a reply to: DeadSeraph Guess the 100 billion dollars American tax payers give the gov't every year is completely useless. No wonder you guys are losing a middle class. Do you think Ukraine might be a hot spot for satellite monitoring and surveillance??? Like the movie says: 'Show me the $Money'. Looks like America has something to hide.

a reply to: Xcathdra

If Drunken Ukrainians shot down the plane, how are rebels responsible for it?

Why is the American Narrative always the same on these topics, that we always know what is going on, its never us, it is always how we say it is!

Why should we not believe that Secret Service Agents from ANYWHERE, were able to gain access, or fund someone to cause this strife, that gains many corporations in the world BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

Maybe TRILLIONS move around on things like this, maybe we should look into the STOCKS of Airlines as before 9/11.

Oh wait that was all coincidence, right?

Time for investigation into the PUT options, AGAIN.

a reply to: ParasuvO
I agree. I'm 55 yrs old and lived through the 'Duck n Cover' years (left US at 23). It kinda shocks me that this 'Cold War' mentality still survives. Perhaps most Americans don't really understand the rest of the world. You can't keep bullying people because they get tired of it. Everyone else (other than leaders) are waking up to it, but Americans keep getting sucked in by lies. Guess it's easy to be a armchair quarterback when you don't think for yourself and rely on corporate fascists in league with bought politicians and media to direct you. Disgusted.

Rebels' MH17 Site 'Sabotage Plan' Intercepted

UK intelligence officials intercepted communications between pro-Russian separatists, seemingly discussing deliberate attempts to tamper with the scene of the disaster.

Evidence indicates rebels talked about removing victims' remains from the fields of Grabovo, where the plane was shot down.

Sky sources in Whitehall added that the rebels also considered sending the black boxes to Moscow.

Sky's Defence Correspondent Alistair Bunkall said the sources claimed the separatists wanted to confuse the situation further for investigators.

He said: "I think this will play into the fears that many people have that not all of the bodies will be returned, that parts of the plane have been tampered with in order to try and hide any evidence.

click for remainder of article.

Back to the reason why rebels were photographed at the crash site destroying the evidence.

a reply to: Xcathdra

as I've said, would like to hear the recordings and will not take word of any media without empirical undeniable proof.

For now i see it just as shallow words as US claims.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Sky sources in Whitehall added that the rebels also considered sending the black boxes to Moscow.

Do you People really find this odd?

- It is more Logic that the pro-russians would send the Black Boxes to Moscow rather than to the Ukraine, The UK or to the US.

Evidence indicates rebels talked about removing victims' remains from the fields of Grabovo, where the plane was shot down.

This is not true. The pro-russians asked the lead investigator if they should start to remove the bodies. But was told not to. The bodies than remained in the Field for 3 days roting.

Later on monday the pro-russians vere blamed for that as well.

Sky's Defence Correspondent Alistair Bunkall said the sources claimed the separatists wanted to confuse the situation further for investigators

This is a bunch of crap. The pro-russians asked the lead inverstigator for guidance on what to do With the crash site.


There was a interview on BBC just a few hours ago about this. Did any body pick that up?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Sparkymedic

If the rebels accidentally shot down a civilian aircraft, how is Ukraine responsible for it?

Why are you asking me? How the hell should I know? Where is this question even coming from? Why are you asking me this ridiculous question?

The ones who shot it down are responsible. We really don't know who is responsible yet. Best to wait for the conclusion of an official crash investigation...then hash it out from there. Like I have said many, many, many times already.

This is really good

a reply to: Sparkymedic

"Terrorists" opinion:

"There will be a change in the rhetoric of the U.S. during the week. Obama can not prove that in the destruction of the Boeing involved Novorossia or Russia. And the guilty must be called. The two criminal candidates are Poroshenko and Kolomoisky"

In Israel in political circles all sure 99.99% that "Boeing" ordered Benya Kolomoisky.

newrussiannews.ru

originally posted by: maghun
a reply to: Sparkymedic

"Terrorists" opinion:

"There will be a change in the rhetoric of the U.S. during the week. Obama can not prove that in the destruction of the Boeing involved Novorossia or Russia. And the guilty must be called. The two criminal candidates are Poroshenko and Kolomoisky"

In Israel in political circles all sure 99.99% that "Boeing" ordered Benya Kolomoisky.

newrussiannews.ru

I'm going to stick to what I have said previously. Especially in regards to material on a website I have never been to before/ heard of. I don't trust government. I don't trust what I read on the internet. And I won't pick sides....ever in regards to any conflict. Both sides are to blame in the tragedy of MH17.