history of secret societies

a reply to: adnanmuf
The thought that Freemasonry stemmed from Nimrod is erroneous, but even so it is only a theory. As I have said and as actual Masonic scholars have said, no one knows for sure where the true origins of Freemasonry lies. All you are posting is speculation.

Nimrod oath is not a theory!!

Nimrod the leader of umman manda!!

a reply to: adnanmuf
Except there is no such thing in Freemasonry. So in that case, it's not a theory, it's a lie.

No before Hiram FM were using Nimrod as their origin. Nimrod is the king of the Magi no doubt. He was the king of umman manda that came from India.
The buck stop here.

a reply to: adnanmuf
No actually before the Hiramic legend we used the Noahide legend.

You saying "Nimrod" over and over again doesn't make it true nor have you provided any real facts. Show our ritual and what jurisdiction or Lodges used it. Plus, I've asked where Nimrod appears in our oaths and you still haven't answered that question. You haven't answered any of my questions which leads me to believe that you fear answering.

600-years of Craft Ritual - Nowhere is Nimrod mentioned...Noah is though. Even this though is just a theory. There is no existing evidence that ties Freemasonry to anything in the ancient world. As I said before, Lodge records only go back to the 16th century and 17th century with manuscripts dating back to the 14th century making reference to the 10th century. There's actually nothing that dates Freemasonry to anything earlier.

No Nimrod oath??

a reply to: adnanmuf
Not one, and I have taken several.

But.... (?) Isn't the nimrod oath.... "do the duty"... or else"?????

originally posted by: Pinocchio
But.... (?) Isn't the numerous oath.... "do the duty"... or else"?????

No.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus
Is there a hiram abif oath about saving people????

How confident, and secure do you Masons feel that the originality, and sacredness of the ritual has been kept in tac, when the source isn't agreed upon ?

Please do not mistake my inquisitiveness for arrogance


There is still room for more conversation here

a reply to: Sacri

I am not a historian, but I know that our rituals have been very close to what they are today for 300 years. What we are taught and how we are taught is the big picture. If it were to be a completely different thing at some point, then what would have made it change to what it is today? After the first degree you get a lecture. The first part of that lecture explains that although the initiate may thing that some things could have been omitted or changed, they cannot as they are all very important, and they the lecturer goes on to explain the entire degree in detail so the initiate will comprehend what he just went through and why.

I have had masons tell me that we lost our way and are now some "different" group then we were, but without any records stating that, how does anyone know? What we are, seems perfectly fine and it's no less spectacular when the master mason has his "epiphany" over what he has become.

Thanks for the question. I will be interested to hear how other masons answer.

originally posted by: Pinocchio
Is there a hiram abif oath about saving people????

No.

a reply to: Sacri

In New Jersey use one of the oldest rituals in the country and it has changed very little from the 1700's. What little change that does happen is more to the floor work or adding smaller pieces to further inform the candidate. One of these is called The Interrogatories which is given while the candidate is being dressed for the first degree in the predation room. It was added to explain the outfit the candidates wear and some other details about the degree.

Thank you both for your response that has resonated well within.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

I just realized I wrote 'predation' instead of preparation but I am sure this will make for a good conspiracy.

Secret societs survived by intelligence departments worldwide who work together even in enemy states.

Their vision is that of trickery just like the magic of ancient magi Magus but tricks always get exposed after time and bring more wrath of the trickered
JFK had a better; plan to spread knowledge by endless scholarships to poor nations and the Peace Corps so those nations don't need to ally with east or west

originally posted by: adnanmuf
Secret societs survived by intelligence departments worldwide who work together even in enemy states.

Their vision is that of trickery just like the magic of ancient magi Magus but tricks always get exposed after time and bring more wrath of the trickered
JFK had a better; plan to spread knowledge by endless scholarships to poor nations and the Peace Corps so those nations don't need to ally with east or west

Funny you mention Kennedy who was in a secret society.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: adnanmuf
Secret societs survived by intelligence departments worldwide who work together even in enemy states.

Their vision is that of trickery just like the magic of ancient magi Magus but tricks always get exposed after time and bring more wrath of the trickered
JFK had a better; plan to spread knowledge by endless scholarships to poor nations and the Peace Corps so those nations don't need to ally with east or west

Funny you mention Kennedy who was in a secret society.

Details, details.

Fitz

Wow for a thread seven pages long and until just now when I flagged it 3 flags and 3 stars???
Ok I find this stuff interesting but my knowledge is basically weak, I do however have an introductory book
on the subject.

A History Of Secret Societies [Arkon Daraul ]
With the little knowledge I gained from that book along with further limited research I tried to pieced together a thread on the matter.
Moors Magic And Witches Banebdjedet Bahomptmet and Pan:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Secret societies can be of help or hindrance but mostly hindrance because of their secretive nature they tend to be accountable to no one outside their group it' tempting to give way to corruption and nepotism but from what I know the renaissance would be difficult and Europe or Western Civ as we know it would be very different .