Hatred Of America Is Greater Than Love Of Freedom For Some On The Left

Originally posted by edsinger
Not at all, I just don't like weak administrations, ones that do not hold the use of force as a legitimate option.

I believe in the use of force (when appropriate) AND oppose the current administration. Does that still make me someone who hates America?

[edit on 6-10-2006 by loam]

Originally posted by loam

I believe in the use of force (when appropriate)

But see that is the problem, to the left there is NEVER an appropriate time, and ones enemies know this and that is why the threat is therefore MOOT. No teeth.

Originally posted by edsinger
...to the left there is NEVER an appropriate time...

Then how do you reconcile that belief with the fact that most on the left in Congress voted in favor of the invasion of Iraq?

As an aside:

Ed is the Susan Lucci of the ATS circuit...

You either love him or you dont.

Ed, you're just what liberals need to stay liberal!!!

You must keep in mind the extent of this administration's interest in military industrial profiteering.

It dates back to WW2 with a family fortune built by Prescott Bush on the military industrial complex. oil
and inter-related securities investments .

Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz have sold out this country for their own personal interests.

Rove is their propaganda spin master, who manages to twist every fact rather effectively to distract
the American people from what they are actually doing.

It is these people who are threatening our collective freedom more than any Middle Eastern faction
could ever hope to.

Their actions define tyranny and empower fascism here in our own country.

Their lust for power and lust for the financial benefits of chaos has been masked by their
proclaimed faith to Christian values.

They are using religion to blind the masses in the very same way that Muslim elitists
are manipulating the ignorance of their own population.

All of this is about power and wealth and control of TRIILIONS OF DOLLARS that most of us will never
benefit from.

Their actions have deliberately insured decades of wasteful government spending.

Mission Accomplished

did you know that the number of illegal immigrants in the state of north carolina has increase 1,480% since 1990??
this map is an ete-opener!!

hosted.ap.org...

what's the republican plan to address this, heck what's the democratic plan to address this? maybe it's time to quite the liberal/conservative bashing and get down to some all out politcian bashing?? name me one issue that either party has addressed to your satisfaction.

Originally posted by edsinger
to the left there is NEVER an appropriate time, and ones enemies know this and that is why the threat is therefore MOOT. No teeth.

I must respectfully disagree. I am a British Liberal Democrat and a student of history. I can think of any number of wars where force was appropriate - indeed in the case of World War 2, where force was the only thing we could do. When you're fighting something as evil as Nazism (words cannot even hint at how much I despise the memory of that twisted piece of slime Hitler) then force is the strongest weapon.
I would have supported Korea. I would have supported WW1! I certainly supported Gulf War 1 and Afghanistan. I did not support Gulf War 2 in the initial stages because I thought that the case for war was weak and I was incredulous at the appalling job that Bush did on the diplomatic side, not to mention administering the bloody (literally) place. I later supported it because frankly the Special Relationship ties us in with the US. Bush's war has strained that relationship as badly as anything since Suez.

Originally posted by loam

Originally posted by edsinger
...to the left there is NEVER an appropriate time...

Then how do you reconcile that belief with the fact that most on the left in Congress voted in favor of the invasion of Iraq?

And how many still claim to support it when the troops and NATION need the support? Not very many, most now make it a political game to gain them brownie points in an election season. They voted yes because the belief was that Saddam had the very high potential to have WMD (I still think he did). Either way, the lefts conviction goes the direction of the polls......as do Republicans for the most part, but not in the case of WAR.

The left's history speaks for itself...appease....appease...talk about how best to appease...

North Korea is a prime example, even Clinton KNEW they were cheating on Carters deal...

Originally posted by dgtempe
As an aside:

Ed is the Susan Lucci of the ATS circuit...

You either love him or you dont.

Ed, you're just what liberals need to stay liberal!!!

Ed to a soap actor? Wow what a comparison...never saw that one coming.

I still like you DG, just don't agree with you very much...

Cheers!

I don't know, ed.

I think liberals won WW!!.

You have voted edsinger for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

So true mate. Nice post.

Originally posted by edsinger

Originally posted by loam

Originally posted by edsinger
...to the left there is NEVER an appropriate time...

Then how do you reconcile that belief with the fact that most on the left in Congress voted in favor of the invasion of Iraq?

And how many still claim to support it when the troops and NATION need the support?

How do you covert lack of support for a "failed" strategy to a lack of support for the troops or the nation? Do you really see the world in this simplistic Dr. Seuss manner? (I know the answer for the current administration. )

Originally posted by edsinger
...most now make it a political game to gain them brownie points in an election season. They voted yes because the belief was that Saddam had the very high potential to have WMD (I still think he did). Either way, the lefts conviction goes the direction of the polls......as do Republicans for the most part, but not in the case of WAR.

The left's history speaks for itself...appease....appease...talk about how best to appease...

*yawn*

Very persuasive.

Originally posted by edsinger
North Korea is a prime example, even Clinton KNEW they were cheating on Carters deal...

More sound logic....

"Clinton did it wrong, so we can too!"

:shk:


[edit on 11-10-2006 by loam]

Originally posted by loamHow do you covert lack of support for a "failed" strategy to a lack of support for the troops or the nation? Do you really see the world in this simplistic Dr. Seuss manner? (I know the answer for the current administration.

)

Well lets see, to put in bluntly, "while troops are in harms way, the left decries our president as an idiot and barks about how we should not be there and then calls for immediate withdrawal. How do you think our enemy perceives these actions? Does the word embolden mean anything?

Dr. Seuss...that's funny...........

Green Eggs and Ham
Liberals live a sham
I Like Green Eggs and Ham
Liberals have no realistic Plan...


Hows that?

I wish some of you would go back and read these posts from an objective standpoint. Look at the way you talk to each other, and pretend to not be either Liberal or Conservative. You place the blame on each other for what is wrong in this country, blaming each other for hating their own country. When in fact, it is the name calling and blaming itself that is tearing this country apart. We tend to forget that there is a fair share of blame to be assigned to everyone, not just a particular party. We could play that game forever and get nowhere. It is political parties themselves that tear this country down, not liberalism or conservatism. If we could look past these stereotypes and try to focus on what we need to do as a country, not what we need to do as a party then we may be able to accomplish something.

Saying that either party does not love America is ridiculous. I'm sure you could find people from both sides and every walk of life who might claim to, but that in no way represents the majority. Just because you believe a certain way, a way that goes against what our leaders tell us, does not mean that you hate your country. Part of what makes this country great is the ability to question your government. The ability to question is the very essence of a democracy. That is what it is built on. Democracy without question and debate is not democracy, it's facism.

I do not classify myself under either Conservative or Liberal. Defining yourself under these tags is useless. There is so much more to being active in government and supporting your country than simply going along with whatever party you may be affiliated with. In order for us to truly improve the situation in our country, we need to come together as one nation, and work to accomplish our goals. As long as we are divided, we can never advance our situation.

[edit on 12-10-2006 by nyk537]

How can these so called Republicans in Washington say that they are for America when they are try to lead Americans down the road to demise? This is not the Republican party of Reagan or Big Daddy Bush. Is this a strong economy current administration preaches about? If it is a strong economy, someone at the Department of Justice and the Department of the Treasury need to look at why this country has over a trillion dollar deficit!!!

I believe that this administration has nearly went to far over the edge in decieving the American public. With the lies made by this administration to get us into this fiasco in Iraq was criminal. If this were a different administration running this country, the story would be different. It's only going to take a Democratic Revolution in both the Congress and the House to get something done about this administration. Besides, it's only going to take one more huge lie from the empty suits in the White House to make the people get fed up and plead for impeachment and removal of Bush & Cheney Incorporated.

Sure thing, lets get some apeasers in office and while were at it, please take more of my paycheck to give in handouts.


I can't wait........

Its a trendy thing.

Typical anarchism is to hates ones system and be proud of it. Some will say anarchism is not left or right, but they tend to have extreme left wing views.

I wouldn't say its a typical thing of the left, but far left and extreme left do tend to hate one's Country.

I keep seeing the issue of taxes and how the Democrats will raise them. What is the difference if you borrow money and spend it like the present administration or if you pay as you go? I've always thought that you shouldn't buy anything that you can't pay for. I just read that GW has increased the natonal debt more that all former presidents combined. I would prefer to pay as I go so I don't have to pay more later. The present defered payments have the potential to bring America down. It certainly is not fiscally responsible.

Originally posted by polanksi
I keep seeing the issue of taxes and how the Democrats will raise them. What is the difference if you borrow money and spend it like the present administration or if you pay as you go? I've always thought that you shouldn't buy anything that you can't pay for. I just read that GW has increased the natonal debt more that all former presidents combined. I would prefer to pay as I go so I don't have to pay more later. The present defered payments have the potential to bring America down. It certainly is not fiscally responsible.

Well I do not buy that idea, We are 8 trillion in Debt, but ask yourself to whom do we owe this money? Most of it to AMERICANS. Is the Economy really that bad??? Hmmm. I wonder if the growth is working? Europe sure seems to be lagging in growth.
















If you want to learn something then check this site out, its really good.

Is our economy really that bad?




I guess we will see now that the appeasers won the elections.....

Ed, stop being a sore loser....

This thread isnt dead because you breathe life into it every time you log on.
You regard this as one of your masterpieces of all time, and its passe, dead, defunct, over, donewith, not viable.......The Dems won because the people of the United 'States are fed up...get it? Fed up with Bush, Cheney, and want NEW blood around.The people have spoken. That trumps you, since you're the minority...He he he...

There;'s still the hope (Republican hope) that all this work out to Bush's advantage in the long run.......so there's still hope... you know?

LOng live Bush, but may he be yanked out of the White House sooner rather than later, for the good of the world.