Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

originally posted by: cerbium
a reply to: cry93

The separatist were using advanced shoulder fired anti air missiles supplied to them from Russia from what I've heard

The shoulder fired missiles cannot reach that high.

I'm curious if anyone has seen any other parts of the different crash sites? All the news I have watched seems to keep showing the same area. If it is spread out so much shouldn't there be more like maybe the tail section or other sections? I mean this is a 777 and they keep saying how spread out it is. Isn't it a bit curious we aren't seeing more than this one spot over and over from different angles?

originally posted by: Vovin

originally posted by: AmericanNational

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: milomilo

Russia manufactures the BUK sam systems and they still use them in their active military forces. Ukraine has them in their inventory because at one point Russia and Ukraine were allies.

The Pro Russian rebels overran a Ukraine supply depot and captured a BUK system. We know this from the photos they tweeted out of the capture. Secondly its been confirmed time and again that Russia military officers are involved and in place with the rebels. Also, as you are fond of pointing out, there were Ukraine soldiers who defected to Russia who could have known how to use the system.

Please stop trying to use disinformation / omissions to push an agenda.


ETA -
Wiki - BUK air defense system

The Russian company responsible for making the BUK was one of the defense contractors sanctioned in the latest round.

That showed them!

Please put up those evidence proof links to really shut them up.

He posted that Ukraine has Buk systems then concluded it must have been the separatists who shot the plane down because they captured a mobile Buk launcher, as if it could not possibly be the other dozens of Buk complex systems that Ukraine still has deployed in the area.

It was launched from rebel controlled territory. The rebels tweeted a picture of the BUK they captured. The rebels also bragged about shooting the plane down. All removed the moment they realized they shot down a civilian airliner.

Since the rebels dont have aircraft, there would be no reason for Ukraine to to engage the aircraft. Secondly Ukraine air traffic control was in touch with the aircraft, so they knew what the plane was.

The rebels had no communications with the aircraft and decided it was a military aircraft and shot it down.


a reply to: onehuman
There is a 10 mile long debris field. Since rebels are refusing investigators access to the site its difficult to answer that question in any more detail.

a reply to: Xcathdra
I realize that, but it seems a lot of the first pictures and video came from the first people on the scene. I'm guessing some of those same folks went out further to look or we wouldn't know how large the debris field is. Just surprised they took the time to film or take photos of first spot but not others.

originally posted by: Ivar_Karlsen

originally posted by: [post=18166072]Nochzwei

Lol. The bb's are orange in colour, hard to miss

--->

On the B777 both the voice recorder and the fdr are inside black containers, the fdr is inside a oreange Box With white stripes.

OIC funny though

originally posted by: onehuman
I'm curious if anyone has seen any other parts of the different crash sites? All the news I have watched seems to keep showing the same area. If it is spread out so much shouldn't there be more like maybe the tail section or other sections? I mean this is a 777 and they keep saying how spread out it is. Isn't it a bit curious we aren't seeing more than this one spot over and over from different angles?

I agree, however the other crash sites (if they exist) might be too graphic to be considered for television albeit the extremely graphic sites already discovered, and televised.

What is confusing me is the lack of security in and around the site. Anybody who is anybody can gain access to the site and it seems, take what they want. There has even been reports of looting.

Vice news has a dispatch from the scene but i will warn you it is disturbing.

news.vice.com...

People are generally forgetting that the area is an active war zone. The hostilities have not ended.

If Poroshenko want investigation to happen, the first step is a ceasefire. Poroshenko has not declared a ceasefire. That means that any outsiders visiting the crash zone cannot be trusted.

While the tragedy is bad, the attitude of Poroshenko and USA is to gain political mileage from the event. This cannot be called helpful.

Forgive me if this is an ignorant question, but doesn't this SAM system need a separate radar in another location to give it tracking coordinates? If so, did the rebels capture one of these as well?

a reply to: Flatcoat

The radar can be with the missiles, or it can be moved away from the missiles. It'll work either way.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Ok, but did the rebels have a radar system as well?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Since Kiev is using fighter planes against its own population, it is logical that the opposition would acquire effective means to counter that threat.

What Ukraine government is doing in that country is actually quite shocking, and I am sure the same will happen soon in America when federal government uses its air force to bomb its own citizens.

All weapons come from somewhere. I find this "Russian" weapons quite amusing; as if Americans weapons in the hands of Ukraine government are sent by God.

It is very clear that there is a civil war which is supported by outside parties. What is there to see?

originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: Zaphod58

Ok, but did the rebels have a radar system as well?

The buk system has separate main radar in its own vehicle but there are less sophisticated radars in each missile platform so they can be used independently without the main array.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Vovin

originally posted by: AmericanNational

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: milomilo

Russia manufactures the BUK sam systems and they still use them in their active military forces. Ukraine has them in their inventory because at one point Russia and Ukraine were allies.

The Pro Russian rebels overran a Ukraine supply depot and captured a BUK system. We know this from the photos they tweeted out of the capture. Secondly its been confirmed time and again that Russia military officers are involved and in place with the rebels. Also, as you are fond of pointing out, there were Ukraine soldiers who defected to Russia who could have known how to use the system.

Please stop trying to use disinformation / omissions to push an agenda.


ETA -
Wiki - BUK air defense system

The Russian company responsible for making the BUK was one of the defense contractors sanctioned in the latest round.

That showed them!

Please put up those evidence proof links to really shut them up.

He posted that Ukraine has Buk systems then concluded it must have been the separatists who shot the plane down because they captured a mobile Buk launcher, as if it could not possibly be the other dozens of Buk complex systems that Ukraine still has deployed in the area.

It was launched from rebel controlled territory. The rebels tweeted a picture of the BUK they captured. The rebels also bragged about shooting the plane down. All removed the moment they realized they shot down a civilian airliner.

Since the rebels dont have aircraft, there would be no reason for Ukraine to to engage the aircraft. Secondly Ukraine air traffic control was in touch with the aircraft, so they knew what the plane was.

The rebels had no communications with the aircraft and decided it was a military aircraft and shot it down.


a reply to: onehuman
There is a 10 mile long debris field. Since rebels are refusing investigators access to the site its difficult to answer that question in any more detail.

You really seem to be unaware of some facts. You do not know that it was launched from rebel controlled territory. It was launched from that area, but positions of forces change. The US will never say exactly where that missile was launched from, but they know. The Kiev government has admitted that it had Buk systems in that area. In fact 27 of these systems are operating in formerly eastern Ukraine. The rebels do have an aircraft. They have recently captured an Su 25 warplane from the Kiev forces when they forced it to crash land. They repaired it and have used it. Some reports say the pilot switched sides. The Kiev forces have every reason to deploy the Buk missile system. You are correct that Kiev air traffic control was in contact with the plane. In fact, they ordered the plane to divert from its normal safe route south of the conflict zone, fly over the warzone, and descend in altitude. If they wanted to shoot it down and blame it on the rebels they steered it to the exact location necessary. Desperate people do desperate things. What is not being reported in the western media is that Kiev in recent days is losing this war in a really bad way. Hundreds of Kiev troops have died in the last week. A mechanized convoy was ambushed last week killing dozens. Kiev junta planes, transports, and fighter aircraft are being shot down on a regular basis. The freedom fighters made a tactical retreat from Slovyansk, tricking the Kiev forces into believing they had the upper hand. They then tried to cut off the supply lines to Donetsk. They failed. Instead 3,000 Kiev troops are now trapped between the freedom fighters and the southern border with Russia. Kiev keeps trying to send transport aircraft to resupply the junta forces who have run out of food, ammunition, and other supplies. These planes keep getting shot down. Now the population in Kiev which was gung-ho about the ethnic cleansing in the east has started to turn against this war. What do you do when your CIA masters insist that you destroy the infrastructure of eastern Ukraine to terrorize the population into submission and insist that you destroy a rebel military force which is equal to if not superior to your military force while you are losing that war and your population is turning against that war? You need a game changer such as a false flag. The problem is that desperate people who do desperate things are sloppy and leave evidence.

It is the Malaysian planes that are the target of false flags. Two incidents while unrelated raise suspicion.

Malaysia is a strange country that actively promotes Sunni Muslim dominance of the world.

It is food for thought as to what is the game here.

With all the spewed speculations here, i think i'm going to rely more on the initial reports that came out.
The separatist are the culprit with all those deleted twitter posts boasting their kill thinking it was an enemy's plane they shot down.

Nostradamus - MABUS Malaysian Airlines Blown Up in Sky

My son thought of this and I just decided to post it. I have been a member of ATS since 2006 but have

not made a post for a long, long time.

originally posted by: milomilo
Despite Hysteria on Malaysia Airlines MH17, Little Solid Evidence
'Smoking Gun' Evidence From Ukraine Spies of Dubious Origin

news.antiwar.com...

Shock over the crash of Malaysia Airlines MH17 in eastern Ukraine, and speculation about whether it was shot down, has morphed into outright hysteria, not so much about the 298 people who died on board, but about who was responsible.

The latest “smoking gun” out of Ukraine’s SBU spy agency is a video purporting to feature an intercepted call of rebels discussing the shoot-down. While everyone is saying the “authenticity could not be verified,” the doubts seem even bigger than that, with the primary basis of the video having a creation time-stamp suggesting it was created a day before MH17 was even shot down.

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You seem to be very keen on proving that Russia had nothing to do with this. What's the view like from Moscow?

terrible tragedy, my heart goes out to the victims and their loved ones.

so what is the deal with Malaysia? Malaysia supports Sunni Muslim dominance. Malaysia declared Bush and (Cheney? not sure) to be war criminals. a Malaysian Airlines 777 disappears for no apparent reason in March and has - allegedly - not been found by today. a Malaysian Airlines 777 is shot down on 7/17 over Ukrainian airspace, leaving 300 dead and three parties in a warzone that push the blame onto each other. the Ukrainian-Russian conflict is not really religiously motivated, however, the same day that this plane is shot down, Israel invades Palestine, a long-term conflict fundamentally built on religious differences between Jews and Muslims.

what gives? it might be a coincidence that both planes were Malaysian Airlines 777. but it would have to be a pretty huge coincidence.

I dont get why the United Nations cannot tell the rebels they are coming in in 6 hours to secure a perimeter around the crash site.

Any hostiles in the area - including SAMs will be destroyed, any vehicles in the area will be destroyed, any combatants in the area will be engaged.

Go in, secure perimeter, bring in the International Investigators, recover the aircraft and bodies and leave.

If we cannot do that, then I vote we drop the United Nations.