Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Ooooo....that would be just nasty if it came out that the Russians shot it down.

All the information seems to suggest that the rebels shot it down using Russian supplied BUK missile launchers. There is a recording released by the Ukrainian government with a rebel leader communicating directly with the Russian military.

If this is confirmed by various governments who lost citizens, this is an act of war by a terrorist organization being supported by the Russian state. No matter what a person thinks of the rebels up to this point, the moment they shot down that plane they became international terrorists.

If it's proven that Russia supplied that weaponry and communicated with the rebels, they are responsible for state-sponsored international terrorism.

Depending on what is proven, we could see Russia facing international condemnation, rejection from the UN, embassies emptied and Russian diplomats told to f-off home, business interests leaving the country, their market collapsing, and even the potential for a declaration of war.

If Russian involvement is proven, and it's found that there was a deliberate intention to do this, this would be an act of war against several nations.

originally posted by: Vovin
If this was such damning evidence, then why was it the SBU releasing it on YouTube? Why didn't the glorious democrat president of Ukraine make an official statement to the world community instead?

Because it is BS, that's why.

So, rather than judge the available evidence and consider that it might actually be true, you instantly reject all suggestion that it might actually be right?

Don't you think other governments will be looking at this too, and be able to ascertain whether it's genuine? The US, Germany, Australia, UK... all our governments and services will be looking at this and assessing it, and we are all far more capable of discovering whether it is genuine than the Ukrainians are.

Don't you think that if this were fake it would be outed as such by at least ONE of these governments?

But no, Russia can't possibly do anything wrong! They have Snowden after all! They're the saviors of the free world despite the FACTS that they abuse their own citizens, steal parts of neighboring nations, amassed military might along a border and have constantly threatened to invade....

All available evidence open to us (including you) suggests that the rebels used Russian BUK systems to blow a passenger plane out of the sky, and that they communicated this to their Russian Military leadership. Therefore, all LOGICAL people would have to come to the conclusion (at least for the moment) that this was Russian backed international terrorism.

a reply to: DaesDaemar

My apology if my post looks directed to you since it was you i replied to but it was meant for everyone who kept asking the same question.

Yes it is different in my nick of the woods but that's how most country in the world does, even if the visa is linked electronically, it is still required to have the physical visa in person on some countries.

a reply to: Rocker2013

Wow, how little do you know about Russia. ATS is full people like you, and I'm really getting so tired of reading the same old stuff over and over and over and over again.

And for people saying that we will never know the truth now that the black boxes have been transported to Moscow. My question to you is, where should they have been transported too? Malaysia? US? Germany? Ukraine? If they were transported there, do you really think we would get truth?

i can't help wondering if someone powerful has got a grudge against malaysia airlines

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: Vovin
If this was such damning evidence, then why was it the SBU releasing it on YouTube? Why didn't the glorious democrat president of Ukraine make an official statement to the world community instead?

Because it is BS, that's why.

So, rather than judge the available evidence and consider that it might actually be true, you instantly reject all suggestion that it might actually be right?

Don't you think other governments will be looking at this too, and be able to ascertain whether it's genuine? The US, Germany, Australia, UK... all our governments and services will be looking at this and assessing it, and we are all far more capable of discovering whether it is genuine than the Ukrainians are.

Don't you think that if this were fake it would be outed as such by at least ONE of these governments?

But no, Russia can't possibly do anything wrong! They have Snowden after all! They're the saviors of the free world despite the FACTS that they abuse their own citizens, steal parts of neighboring nations, amassed military might along a border and have constantly threatened to invade....

All available evidence open to us (including you) suggests that the rebels used Russian BUK systems to blow a passenger plane out of the sky, and that they communicated this to their Russian Military leadership. Therefore, all LOGICAL people would have to come to the conclusion (at least for the moment) that this was Russian backed international terrorism.

This has nothing to do with Russia. I am denouncing this crap that people like yourself is claiming to be "evidence".

Let me make this simple for you to understand.

The SBU is Ukraine's state intelligence agency. SBU's job is information control and psychological operations.

SBU releases a shoddy video of some Russian voices hours after the incident occurs, on social media.

Ya know, if I was running a country, I would want that intel in my hand so I can actually carry out political posturing with the cards in my hand. Notice how when things like this happen anywhere else, world leaders say they have they have reviewed the evidence that their sources have acquired? And then they refine the intel until it is of a universal standard of credible use as evidence?

Do you see the problem yet? It's not SBU's job to just go ahead and release this kind of intel to the social media. If this was real intel, it would have been, you know, brought to actual members of government to decide what to make of such important information. This intel is what the president of Ukraine should have released to the world.

EDIT:

As for your "all available evidence" comment, I don't know what you're talking about. Kiev claims a Buk SAM took out the plane because they knew the separatist had captured some Buk mobile units. Yet Kiev forces had Buk-M1 units deployed and operational just 30km from Donetsk.

a reply to: SirDrinksalot

Missiles DON'T blow planes up. Hollywood does.

Missiles are designed to act like large bullets. They cause catatropic damage to the airframe, so that the vehicle can no longer remain airborne. They carry enough explosive power to cause sufficient damage, and no more. If they carried enough explosive to "blow the plane up" like you see in movies, the missile would be too heavy to reach that kind of altitute, without being 10x bigger (for fuel). It's simple physics.

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: Rocker2013

My question to you is, where should they have been transported too? Malaysia? US? Germany? Ukraine? If they were transported there, do you really think we would get truth?

Why not? Better than to a country which is more or less directly involved in the conflict leading to the crash. The same goes for Ukraine of course.

It has been mentioned that some of the found passports had holes in them.Some said this means the passports were out of date/void.
While its true that in the UK passports have their corners cut off when they go out of date,the passports with holes in them are likley from Indonesia,and possibly Malaysia-these passports have holes in them when they are issued,so the holes do not prove a conspiracy that the crash was somehow faked/evidence manipulated.

How do I know this?
My brother in law is an Indonesian passport holder,and he showed me the holes in his passport yesterday.
He also said he was pretty sure that neighboring Malaysian passports have similar holes in them when issued.

So the holes in the passports do not point to some false flag IMHO.

more news : Russia gives information that Kiev took down the boeing, you can translate and read more here link

its so complicated for me to speak about guns.. But it says that kiev forces locked it before it get shot and take down, with some kind of misiles...

originally posted by: Rocker2013

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
Ooooo....that would be just nasty if it came out that the Russians shot it down.

If Russian involvement is proven, and it's found that there was a deliberate intention to do this, this would be an act of war against several nations.

And what happens if it's the other way round. What if the US-UK supplied the weapons to the Ukrainians.

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
1.Ukrainian Army in recent weeks were losing heavily to the fighters in East Ukraine. Needed a Morale boost.

You really are full of crap, Agent..

Losing heavily? They took losses, yes, but they have pushed the rebels out of several major towns and cities. Can't make an omelette without breaking eggs...

Ukraine air traffic controller suggests Kiev military shot down passenger plane


it also doesn't seem logical that the rebels learned to handle a BUK missile launcher well enough within a short time, to shot down a passenger plane in 10 kilometer heigth. As far as I read, only experts can shot down such targets with BUK.

And there is also this report from a Russian source:
Russian Defense Ministry Says Intercepted Ukrainian Radar Activity on Day of Plane Crash

So the rebels let the other side move a AA missile battery into their area to shot at planes?

That doesn't seem very logical.

Putin is playing the victim card with him as the target, now the CYA starts.

a reply to: Fenrin

Some guy doesn't aim it like a rifle. It has radar controlling it.

originally posted by: Vovin
If this was such damning evidence, then why was it the SBU releasing it on YouTube? Why didn't the glorious democrat president of Ukraine make an official statement to the world community instead?

Because it is BS, that's why.

Erm, he did, as well as the Ukrainian PM, and Defence Minister. In fact, the whole Kiev Government has been quite vocal. The fact you're conveniently ignoring this to try and make some asinine point is quite telling though...

originally posted by: Fenrin
Ukraine air traffic controller suggests Kiev military shot down passenger plane

There is not any evidence, but for me it doesn't seem logical that the rebels learned to handle a BUK missile launcher well enough, to shot down a passenger plane in 10 kilometer heigth. As far as I read, only experts can shot down such targets with BUK.

Yes, but what if they had these experts helping them ,provided by some friendly ally?
And who knows, theres a good chance that amongst these separatist are people who are ex military and have been operating these systems... it isnt all that black&white

Just wait...This sad story is going to bring out the worst in the MSM.

Allegedly families of the deceased are already being ushered away from the dutch airport to avoid the scrutiny of the press, and I applaud that decision. These people need their space, they don't need a dozens cameras and mics being thrust at them at every move.

IMO we all know the 'who?' but the question that remains is the 'Why?' this was a commercial air liner in unrestricted air space- the best case scenario is that it was a case of mistaken Identity, but that's a stretch.

My biggest hope is that the conspiracy theorists stay well away from this until the dust settles-this is a tragedy and not an opportunity.

originally posted by: CosmicDude
MH370 missed on March 7th
MH17 Crashes/Shot Down on July (7) 17th
Both Boing 777
Sure all these sevens are just a coincidence, right ?

Omg - they are on to me!!
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originally posted by: Vovin
As for your "all available evidence" comment, I don't know what you're talking about. Kiev claims a Buk SAM took out the plane because they knew the separatist had captured some Buk mobile units. Yet Kiev forces had Buk-M1 units deployed and operational just 30km from Donetsk.

But why would Ukraine even fire? They are in a position of actually being able to ID the plane from their own national ATC as well as not actually having fired at a plane so far in the conflict, because the rebels don't have any! Whereas the rebels do have form for firing on aircraft....

Cry all you like, but if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck and sh1ts like a duck, it is probably a duck.