Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

originally posted by: milomilo
the rumor that ukrainian traffic controller divert civilian flight because of weather to a more dangerous path of warzone is hilariously laughable..


no way anyone would believe this

I question this as well. It's stupid.

They said lightning. Can't they just descend to a lower altitude?

a reply to: violet

Uhm, lightning goes from the clouds to the ground, and an airplane is the biggest lightning rod in the area. If they went to a lower altitude, they'd still get hit, and a lightning strike on a plane can be bad news.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: violet

Uhm, lightning goes from the clouds to the ground, and an airplane is the biggest lightning rod in the area. If they went to a lower altitude, they'd still get hit, and a lightning strike on a plane can be bad news.

do you believe a lightening strike is a feasible possibility in this situation?

a reply to: WASTYT



Still not seeing a smoke trail. Go to about 1:40.

It's not your business until we go to war over it and you're also in the military.

a reply to: sheepslayer247

Almost certainly not. I can count the number of aircraft thought to be brought down by lightning on one hand. The usual lightning strike is handled by the aircraft, but there are some lightning bolts that the plane can't handle, although my understanding of the weather involved is that they're very rare.

This isn't our business, it has nothing to do with us, the fact you may have learned something is irrelevant. Al bundy said you could learn alot about your neighbors by going through their safe but that doesn't make it right.lol

Airspace in the area was closed below 32,000 feet. The flight entered the region at 31,000 feet, but climbed to 33,000 upon entering the area.

Playback of the flight is on FlightRadar24

a reply to: Zaphod58

Thanks for the info and providing your expertise to this situation. It's needed.

a reply to: Zaphod58

I believe El Al has infra red lock detection chaff and flares unfortunatelyit might be time for more carriers to follow suit.

a reply to: khnum

The USAF is testing Guardian on KC-135s, and other transport aircraft as a bolt on package. It might be time for that to be put on other aircraft flying near warzones.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: violet

Uhm, lightning goes from the clouds to the ground, and an airplane is the biggest lightning rod in the area. If they went to a lower altitude, they'd still get hit, and a lightning strike on a plane can be bad news.

Lightning strikes on an aircraft, while potentially threatening, usually have very little effect. The aircraft is usually not an electrical target of the lightning and more often the aircraft is in the wrong place at the wrong time and gets hit with secondary leaders off of the main bolt which is going cloud to cloud, or ground to cloud.

When they do get hit, the aircraft is actually a fairly safe place to be. They act as a Faraday cage, as the electrical charge passes over the surface of the aircraft and does not enter the cabin. The danger lies in the possible failure of radio and radar systems that have external antennae .

I have been in a number of lightning incidents while flying in the service, and the most that ever happened was that a greenish glow would briefly pass through the cabin and make your hair stand on end.

If your were to be in an electrical storm, being in an aircraft would be one of the safest places to be.

a reply to: charlyv

I've seen quite a few come back with damage from lightning strikes, from a bad radome, to more significant damage. Yeah, you're safer in a plane than almost anywhere else, but better to be safe than sorry.

a reply to: Zaphod58
Im flying to Europe next year and most flights from Australia do go near Iraqi/Syrian airspace which has God only knows what in who knows whos hands these days, Im seriously considering going the long way round via America.

Malaysia conducted a war Crimes Tribunal finding Bush and Blair Guilty for the Mass Murder of Iraqi People.
Payback several years Later?



Two guilty verdicts - two downed Malaysian Planes.

I'm not sure if this has been said before yet, so I'm sorry if I'm repeating something that's already been discussed, but has anyone noticed the anomalies in the flight log under the flight tracker site for MH17? You can compare the flight with previous legs, and it's crazy how MH17 diverts directly to the where the buk's live. However, if you look at the log data for MH17, you'll notice that there's an entire hour missing from near the end of the recorded log. I right clicked on the cords to the g'earth and discovered that the missing data covers the entire flight path over the Ukraine! I'm not going to provide screenshots because this has to be verified anyway, but as of now, the data doesn't seem molested since the first reports rang out. So why did the flight path map show a line to indicate the path, if the actual data to suggest the value of line is missing?
It's my understanding that this data is collected mainly through the use of Transponder, especially altitude data. In comparison with previously flights, absolutely no skips for more than a minute are recorded for the entire moment of takeoff and landing. Essentially the flight data ends at the start of when the aircraft enters Ukraine and responds for one last blimp when it's basically at the location of the crash site. WTF!
We know where the weather was, so what was the flight path to avoid it?

I don't know...

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: charlyv

I've seen quite a few come back with damage from lightning strikes, from a bad radome, to more significant damage. Yeah, you're safer in a plane than almost anywhere else, but better to be safe than sorry.

Yep, strong strikes can melt a little metal, and I am sure there are some real world exceptions, if a flight control is compromised. Overall, people inside are safe, and that is a good thing. I have seen some pretty ugly radome damage, like you pointed out. Lightning is not kind to them if hit and it must have something to do with the power that they emit. Some pilots will shut the radar down if there is too much lightning activity when passing through clouds.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: sheepslayer247

Almost certainly not. I can count the number of aircraft thought to be brought down by lightning on one hand. The usual lightning strike is handled by the aircraft, but there are some lightning bolts that the plane can't handle, although my understanding of the weather involved is that they're very rare.

I've heard that the average airliner gets struck at least once a year.

As you said above, modern planes with static wicks almost never have any problem but on occasion it can damage an aircraft. I seem to remember seeing a photo showing a nose fairing blown off an airliner recently but am to lazy to search at the moment.

Any idea what goes wrong on those few incidents the airframe takes damage?

Back on topic, I was just watching Putin acknowledging that the aircraft was shot down with the caveat that even if it was separatists operating the weapon it was still Kiev's fault for having the audacity to contest their own sovereign territory.

If Russia isn't questioning that separatists were responsible I think we can shelve pursuing alternate explanations for the moment.

With the huge western trade ramifications that are guaranteed to result from this, I cant help but think that if the Kremlin is ready to concede that much this quickly there is a very real possibility that Russia may be more involved than just supplying the weaponry and providing intelligence and logistic support.

It looks like Russia has bitten off more than they can chew and this has the potential to dial the clock back 50 years in East/West relations.

As someone who lived through a lot of the cold war I don't make that statement lightly, IMHO the world got lucky there wasn't a direct conflict between nuclear powers the first time.

Time to dust off my copies of Dr. Strangelove and Failsafe...

Anyone know the flight path from Diego Garcia to the Ukraine? Who's to say this wasn't the missing 777 from several months ago? Videos of passports being strewn around debris area, reports that SAMS can't possibly reach an altitude of 32,000 ft., missing smoke trails, no passenger list yet, and an apparent attraction to Malaysian 777 airliners. Sorry, but the media is not doing a good enough job convincing me that this is a real event. There's MUCH MORE going on here, and I think this has been in the planning stages for a very long time. Evil Doer's Love 777's!