Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: rustyclutch

In this case there were no fighter aircraft escorting the civilian airliner, nor were there any military aircraft at all near the scene / flight level of the commercial aircraft.

If every attack by air that Ukraine launches against pro Russians occur at flight levels below 30k feet, then you identify the targets over that before shooting at it.

There was a reason Ukraine set the flight restrictions under those levels. If the Pro Russians are to stupid to understand how that works, then they have no business speaking on behalf of the people they supposedly represent, let alone being allowed to handle weapons of any kind.

The attack was intentional.
They are trying to cover it up.

If it comes out 100% that rebels shot it down, Russia will have no choice but to end any and all assistance to them. If its determined Russia is involved, I see Russia doing all they can to blame the Pro Russians.

Well there were supposedly reports of 2 military jets being near the plane right before it went down. That's where I get the theory from. Notice I keep using the word theory. I'm still sorting through facts and my opinion is evolving. I still stand by my statement about Ukraine knowing that the rebels had siezed weapons capable of shooting craft down. Furthermore the rebels also let it be known that planes shouldn't be flying over them. Just because they weren't the people in Kiev doesn't make their warnings any less worthy of being heeded. There are 2 sides to every war and ignoring one side like that can be costly.

a reply to: ionwind

Much appreciated kind sir or madam!

I find all of these types of releases "too convenient". Just because Russia has done this doesn't mean others cannot. I'm sure you recognize that logic.

As with most tragic events, there's a lot of speculation right now, but it's most important to be cautious - most information being vomited by media right after an event ends up being BS. I definitely wouldn't take those recordings and video at face value.

Here's an interesting editorial on said telephone interception and youtube video:
www.zerohedge.com...


a reply to: Xcathdra

Russian Separatist Commander Strelkov will not permit investigation into downed passenger aircraft due to an "active war zone."
vk.com...

Id rather the bombers. Much slower and less maneuverable, thus easier to take out with proper equipment. By the time you scramble fighters the low flying fighter jets would be long gone.
reply to: Bentnutt

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
a reply to: Xcathdra

What facts? Did I miss something and there has been information leaked that it was Russia or pro-Russian forces to blame?

Facts are that people are blaming the rebels, who are "Pro-Russian".

Including the now infamous deleted tweet from their CinC.

You can attack the credibility of those facts without attacking the poster

What responsibility should Kiev bear, if any, were it to be determined that they scrambled jets to the flight and led them through that airspace?

Something, or someone, caused that plane to deviate.

originally posted by: cosmonova
talking nonsense again?
Post here right now the link of me calling all Ukrainians Nazis.
Your obsession with Russia and Putin is doing a serious damage to your mental health.

Are we witnessing the beginning of ethnic cleansing in Ukraine?

All the destructions of the cities and towns in Eastern parts of former Ukraine are intensifying dramatically.
More civilian victims have been reported on daily basis. Many homes, residential buildings, hospitals, etc have been targeted
by Nazguards on daily basis and possibly with one and only goal, to clear these areas from ethnic Russian population and according to the latest from Kiev:

Nazguard - Slang term for Nazi. It also is being used to describe any person who is Pro-Ukraine. Hence, calling all Ukrainians Nazis.

Reference -
Tag Archives: NazGuard

Coincidentally it is also the source of the Spanish ATC claiming it was a Ukraine missile and not Pro Russian.

If your going to make comments, maybe you should know what the hell your talking about first. Secondly, you should be more careful about who you call what, especially when it takes me 5 minutes to locate you using the term in a post you authored using sources that verifies it.

now, how about we stick to this thread and this topic, where your credibility no doubt is now non existent for lying and being caught.

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

I'm not attacking anyone. I am asking for the facts. From what I understand, there are no solid facts to be had except that a plane is down and people are dead. While we can speculate on the facts, it is dangerous and illogical to form an opinion of whom is to blame until we have more solid evidence.

Have we not learned from past tragedies that information changes constantly and what the "facts" are as of now will change by tomorrow?

a reply to: rustyclutch

I have not seen anything talking about 2 military aircraft in the area. what I have seen is 2 military aircraft have been shot down in the airspace in the preceding week.

originally posted by: Cablespider
What responsibility should Kiev bear, if any, were it to be determined that they scrambled jets to the flight and led them through that airspace?

Something, or someone, caused that plane to deviate.

You mean like a thunderstorm?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: rustyclutch

I have not seen anything talking about 2 military aircraft in the area. what I have seen is 2 military aircraft have been shot down in the air in the preceding week.

yes, there has been talk that this plane was being escorted by two Ukrainian jets to the border. It's only rumor, but it has been reported. Look at earlier posts in this thread to find that information.

The U.S. says it has intel regarding the radar lock and the heat signature of the missile launch.

If true, the U.S. should show the world this intel.

Sure, it might reveal some U.S. capabilities, but the Russians probably know about them already. It has been done before, e.g. Cuban missile crisis, when the U.S. showed U2 photographs at the UN.

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: rustyclutch

I have not seen anything talking about 2 military aircraft in the area. what I have seen is 2 military aircraft have been shot down in the air in the preceding week.

yes, there has been talk that this plane was being escorted by two Ukrainian jets to the border. It's only rumor, but it has been reported. Look at earlier posts in this thread to find that information.

Something radar would have shown.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Forgive me, but perhaps you have missed my request for the "facts" you claimed to want to discuss. Could you please provide me with the facts that you have so that I may better form my own opinion?

originally posted by: ionwind
The U.S. says it has intel regarding the radar lock and the heat signature of the missile launch.

If true, the U.S. should show the world this intel.

Sure, it might reveal some U.S. capabilities, but the Russians probably know about them already. It has been done before, e.g. Cuban missile crisis, when the U.S. showed U2 photographs at the UN.

From what I have seen this is a possibility. A UN security Council meeting is set for tomorrow at 3pm, unless it got moved again. Supposedly evidence is supposed to be submitted.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Cablespider
What responsibility should Kiev bear, if any, were it to be determined that they scrambled jets to the flight and led them through that airspace?

Something, or someone, caused that plane to deviate.

You mean like a thunderstorm?

I'm basing the question on the report that a few Ukraine jets were escorting the plane. If Ukraine had the plane deviate, for whatever reason, what would be the repercussions of such a decision.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: sheepslayer247

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: rustyclutch

I have not seen anything talking about 2 military aircraft in the area. what I have seen is 2 military aircraft have been shot down in the air in the preceding week.

yes, there has been talk that this plane was being escorted by two Ukrainian jets to the border. It's only rumor, but it has been reported. Look at earlier posts in this thread to find that information.

Something radar would have shown.

Not if the radar was not functional in the area as it has been stated from other sources. Like I said, we don't know all the facts, but you appear to have access to "facts" that I do not....allowing you to already form an opinion. I'd like to see those sources, please.

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
a reply to: Xcathdra

Forgive me, but perhaps you have missed my request for the "facts" you claimed to want to discuss. Could you please provide me with the facts that you have so that I may better form my own opinion?

They were discussed here -

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Cablespider

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Cablespider
What responsibility should Kiev bear, if any, were it to be determined that they scrambled jets to the flight and led them through that airspace?

Something, or someone, caused that plane to deviate.

You mean like a thunderstorm?

I'm basing the question on the report that a few Ukraine jets were escorting the plane. If Ukraine had the plane deviate, for whatever reason, what would be the repercussions of such a decision.

That the person / group who fired the missile failed to identify the target.

Secondly, if you want to go down the road of it being escorted by Ukraine military aircraft, they would be in contact with their ground counterparts. The fighters jets would have been "painted" as well by the missile radar and would have known something was amiss before the first missile launched.