Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ~Lucidity

Has there ever been any real doubt that Russia has been supporting the rebels with advisers, equipment and intelligence?

Not in my mind.

First post on ats, been lurking for a while though. I have a question about aircraft parts- are all serialized parts traceable to the aircraft they're installed on?

a reply to: landon30019

Major components are, smaller components not always.

a reply to: Zaphod58
Zap, do you think anything significant will be extracted from flight recorders?

Also, are there systems in commercial planes like in military jets such as alarms for radar lightening or some early SAM or AA missile warnings?

Thanks

originally posted by: landon30019
First post on ats, been lurking for a while though. I have a question about aircraft parts- are all serialized parts traceable to the aircraft they're installed on?

Yes its located in there maintenance log in fact they will use that to help rebuild a plane in a crash investigation. With trying to prove a missile attack its priceless information see the plane would have been hit by shrapnel the key is finding out how the shrapnel would cause structural integrity failure. Realize the missile didnt blow up the plane but caused structural failure meaning in flight do to the large area the bodies were found apparently depressurized the cabin making integrity harder to maintain. The plane tore itself apart literally thus the huge debris field. What they want to find is the points the shrapnel entered the craft the bodies are important as well for the same reason they will be looking for shrapnel in the bodies. When they say they were finding body parts this tells us the shrapnel cut through the fuselage badly meaning the blast most likely came up through the storage area under the plane.

81205-ASSY-421W1181-1
REV.D MFRS 72242
s/n 249 N 086



That's a # from crash debris.

a reply to: zilebeliveunknown

They'll show the missile hit, and at least the start of the aircraft breaking up.

No, the only ones that would get a warning are El Al aircraft. They have decoys on most of their aircraft.

This will hopefully be the tipping point for Guardian, and similar systems. As usual the airlines want a system that works, but don't want to pay for it.

a reply to: SurrenderingAmerica

That it is hearsay

a reply to: mangust69

Yes it was a dirty job to carry them into the plane and put them in their seats

Ok... The pedantic drivel has gotten out of hand. Reading page after page of people arguing for the sake of arguing has become tiresome. If I wanted that, I'd go read the comments section of nearly any other source. So, i'll reach out and ask for a favor.

Would anyone be so kind as to compile all relevant developments to this story so far into a reply?

Thanks in advance.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: zilebeliveunknown

They'll show the missile hit, and at least the start of the aircraft breaking up.

No, the only ones that would get a warning are El Al aircraft. They have decoys on most of their aircraft.

This will hopefully be the tipping point for Guardian, and similar systems. As usual the airlines want a system that works, but don't want to pay for it.

With Syrians having sams yes i could see passenger jets wanting to equip the Israeli system since its already in operation. Flight guard has been flagged however by the FAA and France as a fire hazard so that does leave another company to swoop in and corner the market i guess.

Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin compared Washington’s hasty conclusions on the cause of the Malaysia Airlines Boeing-777 crash in Ukraine to its statement on Iraq’s possession of weapons of mass destruction made years ago. Rogozin wrote in his Twitter on Saturday:

The White House has established the guilty even before the investigation of the Boeing accident. Earlier, the White House established the same way that Saddam had WMD.

Obama said Friday there was evidence confirming that Malaysia Airlines Flight MH17 was shot down by a missile fired from an area controlled by anti-Kiev militia. Earlier Friday, Samantha Power said that the plane was “likely downed by a surface-to-air missile operated from a separatist-held location in eastern Ukraine.” Kiev also blamed separatists in the Donetsk Region for downing the passenger plane with a surface-to-air missile. Pres Putin said Friday that Kiev should take responsibility for tragedy and that “the circumstances around the aircraft disaster need to be investigated carefully and objectively.”

*snip*
niqnaq.wordpress.com...


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a reply to: dragonridr

The Air Force has been testing a bolt on Guardian laser. You permanently attach the mounting system to the bottom of the aircraft, and the laser and detection gear can be removed and installed as necessary.

Sadly , in the mind of those who was brainwashed by the deluge of Western Propaganda, Russia is already convicted of this crime or accident despite a lack of evidence or a formal investigation. It is sad to see so many people in supposedly educated western world lacking the will to do their own analytical thinking and stuck in the delusion that the Western Goverments Cant Do No Wrong because it is always doing everything BY LAW. Recent manufactured evidence created by western goverment to drive their narrative illustrate this point clearly, like the false-flag chemical weapon in syria.


PIECES OF THE PUZZLES

As we know, today, the US political stance on the Ukrainian civil war is of outright hostility towards Russia and the pro-Russian rebels, called ‘terrorists’, of eastern Ukraine who seek independence from Kiev and do not recognize the Kiev government.

While there is no certainty the pro-Russian rebels hold advanced SAM air defense weapons, they are certainly in the hands of the Kiev flash mob government, alongside the advanced AAM weapons they also “inherited” from the elected government they overthrew.

The onus of military proof is stacked against Kiev, leaving only the question of political motive or motives for the incident. The motive for this cynical and criminal act, destroying a civil jetliner, underscores the role of “false flags” to rouse and manipulate public opinion in the supposedly “neutral” Usaia and the 28 Euian countries.

*snip*

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originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: Xcathdra

Did it work when it brought the plane down? Yup

did the rebels also have a working radar vehicle that's required for the BUK system?

The Buk does not require a radar to engage such a target as Boeing 777 MH17. For such an easy, large non manoeuvring target the Buk operators can use the electro optical and laser ranging turret. Shooting it down would be like a practice day on the range with the optical turret system. It is one reason that there might not be Buk associated radar activity detected by US/Western Intelligence as the targeting can be passive.

EO turret

www.ausairpower.net...

EO turret positioned in front of missile nose cones.

www.ausairpower.net...

www.ausairpower.net...

today I ve read the news written by Le Monde, there is so much fakery propaganda going on... They still writing that the black boxes are missing and someone "unknown took them", but its 2 days news, that both black boxes found and moved for investigation... They try hard to find excuse to send army...

either ways, russia will deny any army (nato) in the area, so vuala, the opportunity US is looking for? I mean as a viewer of this kind of lies, I understand complete the cause and who truly did it, beyond the facts.

here you can read what they say to the french... link

Ok it appears the Dutch are beyond mad at this point i dont know what pictures are being released but apparently the Dutch are shocked as to how the separatists are handling this.

The Dutch government, whose citizens made up most of the 298 aboard MH17 from Amsterdam, said it was "furious" at the manhandling of corpses strewn for miles over open country and asked Ukraine's president for help to bring "our people" home.

"He has one last chance to show he means to help," Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte said after a telephone call to Putin.

Ukraine is claiming there were actually 3 launchers not just one. This actually makes some sense since there is usually 3 to a unit. There is a video but we have no idea where the video was made and must take there word for it. So i call this believe it or not.

“Three missile launchers trespassed the Ukraine border on July 18,” Vitaly Nayda, Ukraine’s counterintelligence chief, told reporters in Kiev.

The statement came a day after a government advisor posted a video purportedly showing a Buk system, with at least one missile missing, traveling toward Russia on a road in eastern Ukraine.

With the new disclosure, Ukrainian officials suggested that the Russian government supplied multiple anti-aircraft systems to the separatists, which Nayda said were also used to bring down two Ukrainian military transport planes earlier in the week. The systems crossed the border at 2 a.m. and 4 a.m. Friday, Nayda said.

The telephone recording is considerable evidence especially since even in the phone conversation Igor Bezler mentioned visiting the sight and we saw photos of him visiting the sight. Ive seen a dispute over the time stamp but people are arguing its time differences caused by time zones. Weve seen this happen before computers keep local times the press uses GMT or there local time zone if there international meaning conceivably you could have huge differences in reported times an local times.

President Obama is currently condemning the incident and planning more sanctions he wants to look tough on the situation in hopes Congress wont take action. Congress has started discussing military aid to Ukraine this time not restricted giving access to high tech weapons. Though there is also some in congress that are arguing that would only make things worse.

The separatists continue to block the press and the investigators from the crash scenes several reporters mentioned being threatened of being shot and saw a report on CNN where they actually fire in the air to get a reporter to leave.

Now the United Nations Security Council Friday they authorized the investigation by the UN and will be filing a report on the incident. This report will be used to assign blame there doing this because they plan to make this an international trial when they assign blame no other reason.

And now everyone is starting to try to attack Malaysia for flying through the area argument could be made they should have not flown through the area since the knew the US flights were not allowed through the corridor since April. Many think the Malaysian government should have made the same call but i look at it like they were not the only country still using that corridor so i think thats unfair criticism. The air corridor was restricted below 32000 ft by the Ukrainian government.

Now Russia at first was hinting it could be Ukraine but now as the pressure mounts on Russia as information keeps coming out there throwing this option that it requires 3 units to fire the Buk missile system and only Ukraine would have that capability. Saw this on RT interview with there supposed expert in reality you dont need 3 units the Buk or gadfly has tracking radar it just doesnt calculate flight plans and altitude information. But if you see the airliner you indeed can track and fire at it. I think this is why they shot it down they saw an aircraft and assumed the only one who would be flying through there would be Ukraine. Though others argue they knew it was a passenger jet but assumed it was Ukrainian. I severely doubt this scenario to me to much risk involved that even local Ukrainians would get mad and turn against separatists.

Malaysia airlines has to go. The management decisions made by that company, especially after MH370 are beyond stupid.
Most airlines completely avoided the flight path over Ukraine war zone, but Malaysia, with all the negative baggage it has hanging on it, decided to allow their flights to fly over the war zone, where 5 other aircraft have been shot down in a month's time.

How could you possibly be a manager in that company, and not realize that risk. It is way beyond stupid, and they should not be allowed to carry another passenger, anywhere.

a reply to: charlyv

Most? At LEAST five airlines that claimed to be avoiding the airspace have been seen overflying the Ukraine.

a reply to: Ploutonas

To bad for Russia, Ukraine is not Russia, If Ukraine allows NATO on their soil and in the area, it is their decision.