Why do peole think that Jesus was god?

a reply to: nenothtu

You do realize the person who agrees with you (Akragon) thinks the OT God is not God and is a fallen Angel or an ET being maybe. So ....

a reply to: nenothtu

I bet you already know that Koine is the simplest form of Greek there is, "the People's Greek", and there was a reason that was used to write the New Testament, eh?

I didn't actually... its nice to learn something around here once in a while

Personally I would say the whole idea is more of a fear if anything...

The "trinity" has been taught for so long its a part of the world religion... denying what the church says is correct is scary stuff for any "Christian"... but its really as simple as reading his words

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

oh sure...

Pick on the kitty...

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

Completely false. I posted the verse in Exodus proving it false. "I Am has sent me". I Am is a name in that sentenced. You have no explanation so you ignore it.

No explanation?

How much more in depth explanatory do you want me to get that "it's not a name, it's a state of being"? In other words, just how complicated do you want me to make it? I can get a LOT more complicated about it if that's what you really want...

Your quote does not prove anything false at all, it contrarily proves that God claims He IS, He exists, and that's all.

People wanting to stone Jesus because he was claiming to be God.
Jhn 10:33
“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

And you prefer to fall into the same trap and wrong way of thinking as them? Interesting.

I wonder what sort of "Jews" those were in that instance? Can you recall which factions were always trying to trip him up so that they could kill him?

Perhaps you could re-read that passage, in it's entirety, and point out the me where in it Jesus (not these "Jews") claimed he was God, which is what precipitated that attempted stoning...

a reply to: Akragon

You're the weirdest striped purple "Kitty" I have ever clapped eyes on. with a smile that shows an awful lot of teeth darling puss.

I think you are right about the trinity which is pure catholic tosh as taught today.

We know from Nag Hammadi that Christ was a Gnostic and he said he would call any man 'Brother" were he to follow the law and love God.

One should never ever put the idea of spiritual love in the same room as a bunch of weirdo men wearing frocks and beards or whatever garb sets them apart for unearned respect and bucket upon bucket of dosh for their children s homes charities - Ugh!

Two different worlds altogether, one fake and one real - Kitty bisquit if you guess.

originally posted by: roth1
Jesus never in the bible said he was god. He always claimed to be the son of god. If the had claimed to be god gov would have killed him much sooner. The Jews would not have had to beg to have him executed. Where did this come from? The church not the bible? Remember the bible says that god said not to worship any before him. Isn't this against the bible? I don't know for sure if this is a conspiracy, but some group propagated this for some intent.

That's not entirely true. Read John Chapter 14 Verses 5-14.

If you believe in the Trinity, you believe that Jesus is God in the flesh. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all equal and one. They each act independent of each other, making their own decisions and taking their own actions, but are co-equal to one another, never acting contrary to each other. It's a difficult concept to grasp, and is rejected by some churches on the basis that the word "Trinity" never actually appears in the Bible. However there are quite a number of verses in the Bible that relate the concept.

christianity.about.com...

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org...

a reply to: roth1
Jesus was a true human. True human is a perfect human. Humanity has a great potential to be the Caliph (representative) of God on earth. Humanity can reach to a rank that it's hands become hand of God and his eyes become eyes of God.
For example Jafar-al-Sadiq a muslim theologian, philosopher and scientist says : "When one of servants of God loves him and if that servant reaches to a point that God loves him too, God becomes his ears that he hears with, God becomes his eye that he sees with, God becomes his tong that he speaks with, God becomes his hand, God becomes his foot that he walks with and God does whatever he wants and ...... "
This is the concept of perfect human. Of course we can not become God or even Jesus but we can get near them. We have this ability to get near them and we have this ability to become representative of God on earth.
As a matter of fact all creatures are manifestations of some of God's specifications and power and knowledge. But humanity is different because he can himself become the manifestation of most of God's specifications unless uniqueness.
The important point is that ignorant and ordinary people can not analysis this and they think that for example great souls like Jesus are God ! or God has born them !! This is because of their ignorance. And aware Christians never say such things.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
Because then you are choosing what God is and is not. Once you do that, it's not God, but a god you have created. You do not get to choose the bits and pieces you like. Many scriptures can be traced back to almost 50 years of his death. So the whole fabricated bit is quite simply a lie.

Look, I can respect your point of view but at the same time I don't believe Jesus was God. I do not put any man next to God, or animal, or tree, or object, I simply believe that nothing in our existence of time can compare to the creator at any level. I am not creating a God, I believe that what ever created this existence and anything outside of it is God and to be honest with you, that's what you should be worshipping also.

My God doesn't have a picture, or a statue dedicated to him, My God can not be recreated in any way shape or form. I can only marvel at what he/she or it has created for me.

a reply to: peskyhumans

If you believe in the Trinity, you believe that Jesus is God in the flesh. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are all equal and one.

Unfortunately Jesus actually disagrees with that...

a reply to: Akragon

No he actually agrees with it. Again, read John Chapter 14 verses 5 to 14.

5 Thomas said to him, “Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

originally posted by: roth1
Jesus never in the bible said he was god.

Yes he did. This has been argued over and over all over the boards. Different people have different interpretations. Pick whatever interpretation you like and believe what you like, but I'll believe Jesus Himself. He and the Father are One .. and Jesus came down from Heaven to save souls. John 6 - For I have come down from heaven ... I am the living bread came down from Heaven ... Oh .. and John said 'In the beginning was The Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.' I agree with John.

a reply to: peskyhumans

No... he doesn't...

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

originally posted by: peskyhumans
a reply to: Akragon
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

This does not mean that Jesus was God. How do scientists see and know about a 3d object like sun !? of course they use telescopes and mirrors. They use 2d images of sun. You can see sun in your mirror but your mirror is not sun and sun is not in your mirror. This is a big confusion.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

Well this is why we can't get anywhere. You are just wrong and won't admit it after I prove it.
It is the perfect tense for hagiazo.

My Greek does not come from the internet - it comes from 36 months of intensive Greek study at university. I can read Greek. "ηγιασται" does not spell "hagiazo".

One can go down a list of Greek declentions, and it's still not the same as understanding it, what the declentions mean, the nuances of them, or being able to read what is written. In your case here, you didn't even bother to exhaust the declentions.

This is even simpler than that - it's Koine - and still seems to go right over the head.

Believe as you are told to believe by the internet, or the priests. I've done my part and had my say about it. I just think it's so cute that you think you are "proving" things in a language you can't read.

hagiazō

www.biblestudytools.com...

www.blueletterbible.org...
www.blueletterbible.org...=t_conc_1069014

I've already got my own lexicons, but thanks all the same.

Oh and as for set apart ...

to separate from profane things and dedicate to God

As I said. It's to separate, set apart, normally it would be for God, which would then mean they are not an unbeliever .. since they are ... the meaning is obviously slightly different. They are still set apart, just not in the same way, as I explained.

You're attempting to read Greek, but giving me definitions in English that aren't in the Greek? How cute! That right there looks like an, erm, "expansion" that some preacher wanted to expand the word to, but run with it!

It.

Means.

Holy.

Am I being too complicated here?

"Sanctified" is suddenly NOT "sanctified"? "Holy" is suddenly NOT "holy"? "ηγιασται" is suddenly NOT "ηγιασται"?

What a strange understanding of ANY language that must produce!

a reply to: FlyersFan

Oh .. and John said 'In the beginning was The Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.' I agree with John.

a WORD is essentially a sound... even a vibration

Both of which need something to create them

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

oh sure...

Pick on the kitty...

My best friend is my cat. She is always following me and I love her to death. Much like I love you, despite my disagreeing.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Puurrrrr....

SO back to the topic then...

consider the fact that theres a reason why I believe this OT god is not "the Father"

perhaps you haven't noticed the state of the world?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

oh sure...

Pick on the kitty...

My best friend is my cat. She is always following me and I love her to death. Much like I love you, despite my disagreeing.

If only all disputes could be settled with the love of cats, there would be no wars

I give you a star for your love in a world of lovelessness.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

No, you did not.
"I Am has sent me".
Jake has sent me.
Martha has sent me.
state of being has sent me.

One of these is not like the rest.

Correct! One of them is NOT like the rest! Go to the head of the class! One of them is not a name - I leave it to you to figure out which.

Jhn 10:33
“We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

Nice verse. Beautiful verse. Simply repeatedly quoting it, however, does NOT show me where, in that passage, it was Jesus claiming to be God rather than "the Jews" claiming it for him.

I think he had a great answer there, but there are just some folks in this world who refuse to be satisfied by answers, however great they may be. Ring any bells?

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: peskyhumans

No... he doesn't...

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

John 13:16
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

You are taking two of these verses out of context. Right after John 10:29, is John 10:30 in which Jesus says that he and the Father are one. In John 13:16 he is not referring to God, he is referring to his Disciples washing each others feet, so that they treat each other as equals, and not try to claim authority over each other. John 14:28 is difficult. I suppose that the Father being the Creator does have all the power, however Jesus still carries all of his authority. In fact earlier in that chapter he says that the Father will send the Holy Spirit in Jesus' name. Jesus said many times that he came in the name of the Father, to do his work. There is no doubt in my mind that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are equals.

John Chapter 10 Verses 25 to 30

25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[c]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

John Chapter 13 Verses 12 to 17

12 When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. “Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them. 13 “You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. 14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. 15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. 16 Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. 17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

John 14 Verses 25 to 31

“All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, 31 but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

However I suspect we will only continue to disagree with each other, so this will be the last time I post in this thread. I have no desire to carry out an argument.