Why do peole think that Jesus was god?

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: TheChrome

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a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Jesus was not God... You can fling off all the verses you like but it simply defies logic what is believe by most Christians. I could agree that he understood the teachings much better than anyone else and chose to teach others also, but Jesus did not create the Universe, Jesus did not create our Galaxy, Jesus did not create our Solar system or our Planet.

when someone can prove that he did, then maybe I'll change my stance towards him being God. God is the creator of all things and no man should take that credit.

a reply to: nenothtu

There is only one way it can work. He was not dead when they took him off the stake.

a reply to: signalfire

ancient history will teach you more if you like science fiction our history is far more fantastical

and yes i do ponder such things for in order to find something you must first begin by searching...

originally posted by: Murgatroid

IF it were not scriptural, then why did the fourth century church condemn the anti-Trinity heresy?

Methinks thou art confusing Consantine's church with actual scripture - one is written, one is decreed by an emperor. I'll leave you to figure out which is which on your own.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04
I find Gospel of Thomas extremely enlightening. Paulinity less so, but I don't dismiss that one can find God through Paulinity, many have. I was referring to 12 apostles but he wasn't one of the 72 apostles either.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Jesus was not God... You can fling off all the verses you like but it simply defies logic what is believe by most Christians. I could agree that he understood the teachings much better than anyone else and chose to teach others also, but Jesus did not create the Universe, Jesus did not create our Galaxy, Jesus did not create our Solar system or our Planet.

when someone can prove that he did, then maybe I'll change my stance towards him being God. God is the creator of all things and no man should take that credit.

God was not a man when He did those things. If you wish to ignore scripture you can, but then you are creating your own god.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: OccamsRazor04
I find Gospel of Thomas extremely enlightening. Paulinity less so, but I don't dismiss that one can find God through Paulinity, many have. I was referring to 12 apostles but he wasn't one of the 72 apostles either.

You can find many things enlightening, that does not mean they are divinely inspired. There is a lot of evidence part of Thomas is early, and matches canonical scripture, and parts of Thomas are later additions and do not.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
God was not a man when He did those things. If you wish to ignore scripture you can, but then you are creating your own god.

How am I creating my own God? I ignore scripture because I know it has been fabricated time and time again and I cannot put any credibility into something that is likely a fraud. You can believe what you want but Jesus to me is not God.

originally posted by: DarknStormy

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
God was not a man when He did those things. If you wish to ignore scripture you can, but then you are creating your own god.

How am I creating my own God? I ignore scripture because I know it has been fabricated time and time again and I cannot put any credibility into something that is likely a fraud. You can believe what you want but Jesus to me is not God.

Because then you are choosing what God is and is not. Once you do that, it's not God, but a god you have created. You do not get to choose the bits and pieces you like. Many scriptures can be traced back to almost 50 years of his death. So the whole fabricated bit is quite simply a lie.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: nenothtu

There is only one way it can work. He was not dead when they took him off the stake.

OR -

He was graveyard dead, and God (the real, indivisible One) breathed life back into him.

That's the way I'm going with my beliefs, rather than the "he never died, just passed out, and went to live in India" school of thought, or the "he died and stayed dead, but had his carcass stolen" school of thought.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

It's impossible for a human to create a god - those sorts of things work the other way 'round. A "god" I create is no more a god than the one Constantine created by decreeing it into "existence".

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: nenothtu

There is only one way it can work. He was not dead when they took him off the stake.

OR -

He was graveyard dead, and God (the real, indivisible One) breathed life back into him.

That's the way I'm going with my beliefs, rather than the "he never died, just passed out, and went to live in India" school of thought, or the "he died and stayed dead, but had his carcass stolen" school of thought.

Or his death was done to fulfill his prophecy of rebuilding the temple in three days. Jesus' body did indeed expire, but He did not die.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I'd rather trust my own spirit than a roman emperor warlord (Constantine) to guide me on the correct path, but each to our own.

originally posted by: nenothtu
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

It's impossible for a human to create a god - those sorts of things work the other way 'round. A "god" I create is no more a god than the one Constantine created by decreeing it into "existence".

Which is exactly my point. Either you follow I Am, or you make a god that does not actually exist. Once you choose what aspects of God you accept and what you refuse, it's no longer God, thus you worship something that does not exist.

Jhn 6:54
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.



Jhn 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Jhn 14:7
If you really know me, you will knowfn my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Jhn 14:8
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
Jhn 14:9
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

Or his death was done to fulfill his prophecy of rebuilding the temple in three days. Jesus' body did indeed expire, but He did not die.

Since death and that final sacrifice once for all time was the chosen mechanism for salvation, then if He did not die, none of us are saved, and it was all a lie.

If He did not die, then Death was not conquered.

Some things just have to be, or else they Are Not.

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

I'd rather trust my own spirit than a roman emperor warlord (Constantine) to guide me on the correct path, but each to our own.

"Lean not to your own understanding" -

You cannot trust your own spirit to lead you to the correct path...

... but neither can you trust Constantine's.

a reply to: Xcouncil=wisdom

TRINITY IN THE BIBLE (MANY MORE REFERENCES AVAILABLE)

One God:
1 Tim 2:5, Deut 4:35, 6:4, Isa 43:10-11
Plurality of One God: Gen 1:26, 3:22, 11:7, Isa 6:8.
Isa 9:6 shows the multiple persons of God as Father, Son, and Counsellor
(aka Comforter, which Jesus said he would send to his disciples John 15:26)

The Father is God
Isa 6:3 ,1 Cor 8:6, John 17:1-3, II Cor 1:3, Philippians 2:11, Col 1:3,
I Peter 1:2, Matt 6:8, 7:21, Gal 1:1

The Son is God
Jn 12:41, 5:18, 20:28, 1:1-14, 9:35-3, Titus 2:13, Rom 9:5, II Pet 1:1,
Col 2:9, Heb 1:8-10, Rev 1:8,18, Is 7:14, 45:21-22 Mic 5:2, Matt 1:23

The Spirit is God
John 16:13, Heb 9:14, Acts 5:3-4, II Cor 3:17, John 15:26

Who raised Jesus from the dead:
Father Rom 6:4, Acts 3:26, I Thes 1:10
Son John 2:19-21, 10:17-18
Spirit Rom 8:11
God Heb 13:20, Acts 13:30, 17:31

Who is God?
Father Eph 4:6
Son Tit 2:13, John 1:1, 20:28, 9:35-37
Spirit Gen 1:2, Ps 104:30
God Gen 1:1, Heb 11:3

Who saves man?
Father 1 Pet 1:3
Son John 5:21, 4:14
Spirit John 3:6, Tit 3:5
God 1 John 3:9

Who justifies man?
Father Jer 23:6, II Cor 5:19
Son Rom 5:9, 10:4, II Cor 5:19,21
Spirit I Cor 6:11, Gal 5:5
God Rom 4:6, 9:33

Who sanctifies man?
Father Jude 1
Son Tit 2:14
Spirit I Pet 1:2
God Ex 31:13
Persons of God do: Of the Father, by the Son, through the Spirit 1 Cor:8:6, John 15:26

a reply to: roth1

Why do peole think that Jesus was god?

Probably because they were taught he is God from an early age...

And they ignore what HE said...

Just to add a little more detail.... His followers didn't want to consider him a blasphemer for one... which was what he was executed for

Christians also use this idea as weight to prove their religion is correct... Our God walked among us...

And as you've clearly seen... He happened to use the whole "I AM" thing... which in actuality means he was the essence of God, not God in the flesh... which he didn't say in any case... John did

Plus there is no trinity or triune God taught in the bible... which is well known by most scholars

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

Which is exactly my point. Either you follow I Am, or you make a god that does not actually exist. Once you choose what aspects of God you accept and what you refuse, it's no longer God, thus you worship something that does not exist.

One cannot follow Him while simultaneously leading Him - in other words, we cannot shoehorn concepts into His Word that are not there to begin with, and expect proper results. We cannot force God to be what we want Him to be... that never works out well in the end.

Jhn 6:54
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

Which does not make Jesus a god - no more so than it made Elijah one.

Jhn 14:6
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I have no problem with that. If one goes through one entity, however, he had gone through it, not arrived at it - he arrives at something, or someone, else.

Jhn 14:7
If you really know me, you will knowfn my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

I have no problem with that, either. I can say the same, with a clear conscience.

Jhn 14:8
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
Jhn 14:9
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Likewise, as above. I don't think I need to actually add "so below", but I will, just in case it helps.

You see, John was a mystic, and must be understood mystically. Taking him literally at some points and not at others can lead to confusions.

That seems to be another of the mass confusions in modern christianity - people pick and choose what they want to take literally, and what they want to take figuratively, rather than weighing the word as a whole against itself until it makes sense to them and is self-consistent. I suppose it can't be helped, given the current state of affairs, and I'm positive it will be no bar to Paradise, but it will make for some lively theological discussions until we get there.

There are those who say "you can't hold another god beside the One and expect to get to heaven, because He's gonna git you fer that!", and there are others just as equally adamant that if you deny the entire Godness of Jesus, you won't get to heaven, either! While they're fighting back and forth, they lose sight of the prize, the important bits. THAT is what may bar them from paradise - losing sight of the prize, more than whether their own personal theology and the divinity of the Christ was right or wrong.

The important part is that Jesus was the Savior, the Messiah, the Christ, the doorway to eternity, the Narrow Gate. THAT is what salvation hinges upon. Whether he was God or not is immaterial to that - but the infighting makes folks lose sight of that as they jockey back and forth and attempt to use divinity as a weapon to keep their rivals out of the Garden.

Ever since I was a teenager and argued with the preachers until they turned red and spluttered, I have maintained that people are going to be surprised by who they meet in Heaven... and equally surprised by who they DON'T meet there.