Christianity & Hobby Lobby

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
IT is about their choice of faith and selective contraception not you and abortions.

Now there's a guy opinion for ya, on women's birth control rights.

How exactly does this decision affect you?

a reply to: cavtrooper7
If its all all supposedly about their faith why does their 401k invest in the same technology?, so its abhorrant to pay for such things but its ok the live out your retirment years on it?..seems like a bunch of bovine scatology to me.

Here's another sticky situation about this ruling that I'm not sure anyone has been looking at. The reason I bring this up is because I've already argued every other possible angle there is but this one I think, so I'm going for a new approach.

Hobby Lobby the Corp. takes on the Religious Beliefs of it's "Closely Held Owners", correct. This is one of the ways in which Corporate Persons now are allowed Religious Rights. As we all know they are also given other "Natural Rights" just like other Natural Persons as well, such as Free Speech, Property Rights, etc. So if that is the case, shouldn't it also then be "Responsible" by those same terms??? What I mean by that is, since the Owners and the Corp. are now linked in their Beliefs and their "Persons" together, if someone sues Hobby Lobby, shouldn't it's owners now be liable to it as well???

Why should the Corporation which takes on the Beliefs of the owners not also take on the responsibilities and obligations as well???

This goes deeper than this still but I'll start here to see what kind of responses I get....

wow! i don't know where to begin about the last few pages.

here are more companies and stuff to have a stroke over. courtesy of NOW.
knock yourselves out.

Birth Control Mandate Lawsuits

The following is a list of plaintiffs in the 100 cases that have been filed in opposition to the birth control mandate in the Affordable Care Act.

American Family Association
American MFG Co
American Pulverizer Co
Annex Medical
Autocam Corp
Ave Maria School of Law
Ave Maria University
Barron Industries
Beckwith Electric Co
Belmont Abbey College
Bick Holdings, Inc.
Cherry Creek Mortgage Co
CNS Ministries
Colorado Christian University
Conestoga Wood Specialities Corp
Continuum Health Partnership/Management
Criswell College
Doboszenski & Sons
Dordt College
Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk
East Texas Baptist University
Eden Foods
Encompass, Develop, Design & Construct LLC
Eternal Word Television Network Inc.
Fellowship of Catholic University
Feltl & Co., Inc.
Franciscan University of Steubenville
Freshway Foods
Gilardi
Grace College and Seminary
Grote Industries
Hart electric LLC
Hastings Automotive
Hercules Industries Inc.
Hobby Lobby
Holland Chevrolet
Infrastructure Alternatives
Johnson Welded Products
Korte & Luitjohan Contractors
Liberty University
Lindsay Rappaport and Postel LLC
Little Sisters of the Poor
Louisiana College
M&N Plastics
Mersino Management Company
Michigan Catholic Conference
MK Chambers Company
O’Brien Industrial Holdings
Ozinga
Paul Wieland
Priests for Life
QC Group Inc.
Randy Reed Automotives
Reaching Souls International
Right to Life Michigan
Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Atlanta
Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York
Roman Catholic Archdiocese of St. Louis
Roman Catholic Diocese of Beaumont
Roman Catholic Diocese of Biloxi
Roman Catholic Diocese of Cheyenne
Roman Catholic Diocese of Dallas
Roman Catholic Diocese of Erie
Roman Catholic Diocese of Fort Worth
Roman Catholic Diocese of Fort-Wayne – South Bend
Roman Catholic Diocese of Nashville
Roman Catholic Diocese of Pittsburgh
School of the Ozarks
Seneca Hardwood
Sharpe Holdings, Inc.
Sioux Chief MFG Co
SMA LLC
Southern Nazarene University
The Most Reverend Thomas Wenski
Tonn and Blank Construction
Trijicon, Inc. (AKA Bindon)
Triune Health Group
Tyndale House
University of Notre Dame
Weingartz Supply Co
Wheaton College (Wheaton, IL)
Willis & Willis PLC
WLH Enterprises
Zumbiel

and i offer another point of view from here.

liherald.com...

These types of personal moral debates are common. In the matter of insurance, should the government be forcing its more liberal social beliefs on private businesses? And what about religious institutions? For example, should the Catholic Church be forced to pay for an insurance plan for its employees that covers emergency contraception?


Sadly, NOW, one of the nation’s largest pro-abortion lobbies, has taken it too far. It has labeled the 100 entities that filed the lawsuit against the Affordable Care Act’s contraception mandate the “Dirty 100.” Included are Catholic orders of nuns, priest groups, and entire dioceses.

When did the war for women become the war against nuns? This is a pathetic ploy by NOW to gain notoriety in the Obamacare debate. The Little Sisters of the Poor, a religious institute for women who have dedicated themselves to the care of the elderly, the impoverished and the aged poor, now has a place on the Dirty 100 list.

Justice Anthony Kennedy noted that the government can pay for this coverage if it wants to make it available, but cannot force a company to do so. I couldn’t agree more. This is a country of religious liberty.


If the National Organization for Women had any class, it would understand that there is a difference between fighting for a principle and being extremist.

there is more to his piece but

i think he summed it up pretty well.

Oh look. Alfonse is a Republican Catholic. No bias there. en.m.wikipedia.org...'Amato

So let me get this straight. Catholics want to force their ideologies on non-Catholic women, and those women are extremists because they object.

a reply to: tsingtao

For those of you unfamiliar with how, until the 1990s, Ireland dealt with unmarried mothers and their children, here it is: the women were incarcerated in state-funded, church-run institutions called mother and baby homes or Magdalene asylums, where they worked to atone for their sins. Their children were taken from them.

www.theguardian.com...

Seems that some have been dirty in the past. A mass grave of over 700 children buried in a sewage tank!

a reply to: tsingtao

should the Catholic Church be forced to pay for an insurance plan for its employees that covers emergency contraception?

Of course the Catholic Church and the Vatican are against women's reproductive rights and contraception. They've been making money, hand over fist, for hundreds of years by stealing and selling babies and enslaving young women and orphans. You can't teach a "old dog new tricks" and a "bad tree never bears sweet fruit".

300,000 babies stolen from their parents - and sold for adoption: Haunting BBC documentary exposes 50-year scandal of baby trafficking by the Catholic church in Spain

originally posted by: tsingtao
wow! i don't know where to begin about the last few pages.

here are more companies and stuff to have a stroke over. courtesy of NOW.
knock yourselves out.

Birth Control Mandate Lawsuits

The following is a list of plaintiffs in the 100 cases that have been filed in opposition to the birth control mandate in the Affordable Care Act.

American Family Association
American MFG Co
American Pulverizer Co
Annex Medical
Autocam Corp
Ave Maria School of Law
Ave Maria University
Barron Industries
Beckwith Electric Co
Belmont Abbey College
Bick Holdings, Inc.
Cherry Creek Mortgage Co
CNS Ministries
Colorado Christian University
Conestoga Wood Specialities Corp
Continuum Health Partnership/Management
Criswell College
Doboszenski & Sons
Dordt College
Dr. James Dobson’s Family Talk
East Texas Baptist University
Eden Foods
Encompass, Develop, Design & Construct LLC
Eternal Word Television Network Inc.
Fellowship of Catholic University
Feltl & Co., Inc.
Franciscan University of Steubenville
Freshway Foods
Gilardi
Grace College and Seminary
Grote Industries
Hart electric LLC
Hastings Automotive
Hercules Industries Inc.
Hobby Lobby
Holland Chevrolet
Infrastructure Alternatives
Johnson Welded Products
Korte & Luitjohan Contractors
Liberty University
Lindsay Rappaport and Postel LLC
Little Sisters of the Poor
Louisiana College
M&N Plastics
Mersino Management Company
Michigan Catholic Conference
MK Chambers Company
O’Brien Industrial Holdings
Ozinga
Paul Wieland
Priests for Life
QC Group Inc.
Randy Reed Automotives
Reaching Souls International
Right to Life Michigan
Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Atlanta
Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York
Roman Catholic Archdiocese of St. Louis
Roman Catholic Diocese of Beaumont
Roman Catholic Diocese of Biloxi
Roman Catholic Diocese of Cheyenne
Roman Catholic Diocese of Dallas
Roman Catholic Diocese of Erie
Roman Catholic Diocese of Fort Worth
Roman Catholic Diocese of Fort-Wayne – South Bend
Roman Catholic Diocese of Nashville
Roman Catholic Diocese of Pittsburgh
School of the Ozarks
Seneca Hardwood
Sharpe Holdings, Inc.
Sioux Chief MFG Co
SMA LLC
Southern Nazarene University
The Most Reverend Thomas Wenski
Tonn and Blank Construction
Trijicon, Inc. (AKA Bindon)
Triune Health Group
Tyndale House
University of Notre Dame
Weingartz Supply Co
Wheaton College (Wheaton, IL)
Willis & Willis PLC
WLH Enterprises
Zumbiel

and i offer another point of view from here.

liherald.com...

These types of personal moral debates are common. In the matter of insurance, should the government be forcing its more liberal social beliefs on private businesses? And what about religious institutions? For example, should the Catholic Church be forced to pay for an insurance plan for its employees that covers emergency contraception?


Sadly, NOW, one of the nation’s largest pro-abortion lobbies, has taken it too far. It has labeled the 100 entities that filed the lawsuit against the Affordable Care Act’s contraception mandate the “Dirty 100.” Included are Catholic orders of nuns, priest groups, and entire dioceses.

When did the war for women become the war against nuns? This is a pathetic ploy by NOW to gain notoriety in the Obamacare debate. The Little Sisters of the Poor, a religious institute for women who have dedicated themselves to the care of the elderly, the impoverished and the aged poor, now has a place on the Dirty 100 list.

Justice Anthony Kennedy noted that the government can pay for this coverage if it wants to make it available, but cannot force a company to do so. I couldn’t agree more. This is a country of religious liberty.


If the National Organization for Women had any class, it would understand that there is a difference between fighting for a principle and being extremist.

there is more to his piece but

i think he summed it up pretty well.

good job finding this.

originally posted by: Annee
Oh look. Alfonse is a Republican Catholic. No bias there. en.m.wikipedia.org...'Amato

So let me get this straight. Catholics want to force their ideologies on non-Catholic women, and those women are extremists because they object.

you do not have it straight.

Catholics do not want to be forced to pay for abortificants.

Once you understand that you will have it straight.

Which will never happen cause you twist it to your blind perspective.

I am a Catholic and have refused to become insured under obamacare for that reason.

Are you at the child bearing period of your life?
I am.

originally posted by: spirited75

originally posted by: Annee
Oh look. Alfonse is a Republican Catholic. No bias there. en.m.wikipedia.org...'Amato

So let me get this straight. Catholics want to force their ideologies on non-Catholic women, and those women are extremists because they object.

you do not have it straight.

Catholics do not want to be forced to pay for abortificants.

Once you understand that you will have it straight.

Which will never happen cause you twist it to your blind perspective.

I am a Catholic and have refused to become insured under obamacare for that reason.

Are you at the child bearing period of your life?
I am.

No. I'm 67.

a reply to: Annee

you do not have it straight.

Catholics do not want to be forced to pay for abortificants.

Once you understand that you will have it straight.

Which will never happen cause you twist it to your blind perspective.

I am a Catholic and have refused to become insured under obamacare for that reason.

a reply to: spirited75

What is your point?

My point is a business is not a church. I don't care what the owners belief is.

You'd support them forcing women employees to wear a veil, and have to pay for it themselves?

a reply to: spirited75

Catholics do not want to be forced to pay for abortificants.

I am a Catholic and have refused to become insured under obamacare for that reason.

Catholics, supposedly, are against ALL form of birth control, including condoms. What difference does it make what kind of contraceptive methods prevents pregnancy to Catholics, when they're all equally as bad?

Furthermore, abortificants are not part of the contraceptive mandate, in the first place. Catholics were NEVER asked to pay for abortificants.

American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and the American Medical Association, [disagree.]

“A pregnancy exists once a fertilized embryo has implanted in the uterus. Prior to that implantation, we do not have a viable pregnancy,” said Dr. Barbara Levy, vice president for health policy for the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists.

Levy’s group argues that emergency contraception “cannot prevent implantation of a fertilized egg,” and that it is “not effective after implantation; therefore, it is not an abortifacient.”

Drugs such as RU-486 or methotrexate combined with misoprostol were designed specifically to bring a medical end to a pregnancy and are clearly abortifacient. But those are not contraceptives, Levy said, and they’re not included in the mandate.

www.washingtonpost.com... 0-a86415d0944d_story.html

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: spirited75

What is your point?

My point is a business is not a church. I don't care what the owners belief is.

You'd support them forcing women employees to wear a veil, and have to pay for it themselves?

I work in a job where I am forced to wear long sleeved shirts out side all year long. And steel towed boots and a hardhat. Gloves. Eye protection.
Sonic employees are forced to wear uniforms.
police are forced to wear certain clothes as are doctors nurses and most other professions.
so yes forced to do certain things that the job requires, you bet.

So what is your point?

If the women dont like the contraceptives that HL provides they can either pay for those they want or go get a job elsewhere.

originally posted by: spirited75
I work in a job where I am forced to wear long sleeved shirts out side all year long. And steel towed boots and a hardhat. Gloves. Eye protection.
Sonic employees are forced to wear uniforms.
police are forced to wear certain clothes as are doctors nurses and most other professions.
so yes forced to do certain things that the job requires, you bet.

So what is your point?

If the women dont like the contraceptives that HL provides they can either pay for those they want or go get a job elsewhere.

would you prefer to wear just a pair of shorts, tee shirt, and flip flops or would you consider that as being just a tad dangerous???
would wearing a veil on your job also increase the danger? Seems to me that common sense should over ride in many cases!

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"If the women dont like the contraceptives that HL provides they can either pay for those they want or go get a job elsewhere."

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isn't that kind of like if hobby lobby didn't want to provide birth control to it's employees they could have just paid the fine??
so going back to the veil thing.
I guess if you find that wearing a veil on your job is endangering you..you can just find another job??

Women used to have to wear high heels for many jobs when I was younger. I have had problems with my feet since I was born (almost ended up having to wear braces.) Many of my career options were removed from me because I would not wear the high heels!
of course if you are a man many of those dress codes weren't that burdensome to yous!
while the litte girls waded through snow drifts up to their arse in dresses you got to have your legs covered!
your shoes didn't make you walk on your toes!!
and slapping on a ton of poisonous chemicals on your face wasn't required!

historically, women were hindered in many ways in an attempt to keep them at home where they belong. Burdensome clothing was one of those ways!

So if you enter an establishment owned by a Muslim, the owner has every right to demand that your wife/gf be covered and you must have a beard. Ludicrous at best.

a reply to: Annee

Ever heard of DRESSCODES three piece suits?THEY ALREADY do. As to you in a BURKA? We aren't too crazy about MUSLIMs right now, their offspring JIHADIS need to DIE and THEY haven't done S##T to stop them.

a reply to: dawnstar

women want a level playing field???
quit wearing the makeup and hiding behind
the phoney mask you paint on your faces everyday.

women choose to do this to themselves.

a reply to: spirited75

there was a time when it was part of the job to wear makeup...along with high heeled shoes.
I don't do either1

a reply to: spirited75

If the women dont like the contraceptives that HL provides they can either pay for those they want or go get a job elsewhere.

Amazing! So you're good with some women being entitled to more equality under the law than others. I guess those are Catholic morals.