Palistine is the Problem Not Israel

a reply to: Rosinitiate

Just a comparison/anaolgy... I could understand why the settlers could get away with it though, the technology wasn't there for people to step in or know what was happening... It's here now and the world does nothing, we're not so different from our ancestors afterall I guess...

originally posted by: jheated5
a reply to: Rosinitiate

Just a comparison/anaolgy... I could understand why the settlers could get away with it though, the technology wasn't there for people to step in or know what was happening... It's here now and the world does nothing, we're not so different from our ancestors afterall I guess...

It's not any different at all. It's the same old crimes committed in the newest of ways and with much better propaganda abilities. They construct an issue that can only be resolved by themselves and wait for the mindless masses to beg for that resolution. Nothing new here....

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

My feelings on this is that you have looked into this for about 2 months tops, because your views seem handed to you by state-controlled propaganda and your telling of the beginning of Israel is false and misunderstood.

Its a shame. But hey, you just made American propaganda machines happy. Snooze on my friend.

MM

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u

originally posted by: Dianec
a reply to: Jesuslives4u

My feelings on this tell me people need all the facts before spouting hate toward either side. I see anti-Israeli threads or comments thereof quite often. One is of how horrible it is for them to be bombing Palestine civilians. Why is it also not an atrocity when they are bombing Israeli civilians. At this time I am not clear on why they are firing in the areas they are (schools). Maybe Hamas is hiding in these schools?

All I can say is people need to work on perspective big time. Instead we have attributional bias, confirmation bias, and so on. I'm not saying any of them are right. Or maybe I think they are all a bunch if idiots for not being able to figure this out without guns.

Hi,

I could never kill a child! I could never let a bomb loose not knowing who it would kill. Our children are our future.

God help us all.

Except for...the Palestinians right?

First I read your post, then, just out of curiosity I felt I will look at what your username is.

Thought so.

No religious bias here....is there?


Look people, just because Israel is the land of your saviour and all that jazz, doesn't excuse Israel from wrongdoing simply because it's holy land.
Of course you are not taking sides because of religion; are you, Mr. Jesuslives4u?

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

This is from January 13, 2009. Still goes to today's view.

originally posted by: Rosha

originally posted by: CommandoJoe

Every effort to deprive them of life? You mean by sending in a couple hundred semi-trucks full of supplies, food, etc from Israel into Gaza EVERY DAY? I'll say it loud since everyone wants to deny it - IF ISRAEL WANTED TO COMMIT GENOCIDE, EVERY LAST PALESTINIAN WOULD BE DEAD! They have the capability to do it pretty quick if they wanted to. And all I see is people regurgitating the same old anti-Israel nonsense and lies.

You really dont seem to see how Orwellian your statement about food and supplies is. Please take a moment to consider that the Palestinians, if they had not been herded into two tiny strips of land in order that Israel could more easily control them and were permitted freedom of movement and economy,wouldn't need such 'benevolence' from Israel in the first place. Horse before cart just maybe?

Everything ends...even this...Palestine was an independent, interconnected and thriving pre-industrial country before zionism with an amazing heart and spirit...and hopefully after zionism it will be again for all of the people living there. May the people of Palestine be kinder to you at your end, than you were at theirs.

My point was that if Israel wanted to "deprive them of life" they wouldn't be sending in ANY supplies and could very easily kill them ALL through starvation or with bombs... That is not what Israel wants and there is NO genocide happening here. To use that term for this situation is an insult to those people that have actually experienced it. And Palestine was never a country.

Consider that before terrorists started blowing up cafes, buses, and night clubs, the borders with with Israel were much more open and 40% of Palestinians held good paying jobs in Israel. Even now, about 100,000 Palestinian workers have permits to work in Israel where the minimum wage is about 3x that of the West Bank...

How have I been unkind to Palestinians? The only ones I have a problem with are those that try to kill civilians. I have Palestinian (Christian) friends here... I have no desire to see any innocent people from either side dead. Terrorists I have no sympathy for though.

This situation is not so simple as just pull out of the West Bank and everything will be great. They did that in Gaza, and in return they got in increase of missiles launched into Israel...

I'll keep posting this since nobody seems to have an answer and just ignores this question... Where is the condemnation of Egypt? You all do know that they control the southern border of Gaza right? Are they not also responsible for maintaining this "prison"?

a reply to: sheepslayer247

Unfortunately, this is a misconception. It was not owned by the Palestinians.

a reply to: FyreByrd

Not this map again. What would you do if you tried to go back into a house you once occupied but were kicked out of? Would you fight to get your property back?

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: CommandoJoe

Nice...but.... Is being neutral a crime? :-)

Not sure why you assumed I was European though. I'm an American. It is my right to question things and form opinion without interference. I choose to remain neutral. I can also express that doubt.

I didn't assume you were European - I had no idea where you were from, and most of the time don't even check to see where people are from unless I specifically need to use it in a reply... I just pointed out that Holocaust denial is a crime and provided a link giving details - didn't say the police will be pounding on your door or anything.

By doubting this event you are essentially calling thousands of WW2 veterans, Holocaust survivors, and others, liars... The reason Holocaust denial has been criminalized in those places is that there is so much evidence it happened and to deny it happened evokes a very strong emotional response among those that experienced it.

Have you done research that leads you to believe the Holocaust was one giant hoax? I think there is quite a bit of evidence showing otherwise. Or are you just taking the "neutral" position to be onerous? If it didn't happen that would be the mother of all conspiracies to have been pulled off.

I think this particular event can be filed under the confirmed portion of history by just about everyone except those that have an ax to grind against Jews. While you have the right to believe whatever you want, for you to take a "neutral" position as you call it on this issue, is just silly and insulting on many levels. I can understand someone having doubts about something - in that case most would do a bit of research and come to some conclusion. Have you done this and still are undecided? Care to share your sources?

Is expressing doubt on the official version of this story that taboo? Cui Bono?

Yes it is - if you don't realize that, then you truly are clueless...

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

Wait ... so these 10 or so rockets were fired from 200+ sites in Gaza at once? I don't see the math here. I don't see any of the wreckage from the firing sites either. Just 150+ dead civilians.

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: FyreByrd

Not this map again. What would you do if you tried to go back into a house you once occupied but were kicked out of? Would you fight to get your property back?

Isn't that what the Palestinians are doing? And when were the Israelites kicked out? 70 CE? Isn't that like 2000 years ago?

originally posted by: Rosha

originally posted by: CommandoJoe
I have gone to live there - been here for 4+ years now. Not Jewish either, just working long term. I've been dealing with missiles since the first week I arrived in Israel. I'm no propaganda machine, just sick of people spreading outright lies. MY LIFE is on the line and way too many people think it's ok for terrorists to launch missiles at civilians...

You seem to be missing the point that this is occupied land. You chose to go and to validate the existence of the occupiers by working with them you become to those resisting occupation, a collaborator. You can't cry foul after the fact or because you were ignorant of that fact. Would you have gone to work in Nazi controlled Germany too? No? Why not? How is this situation any different? Seriously..tell me - how?

You seem to be falling into the same media induced Orwellian trap as most too : People under occupation defending what is left of their homes and homeland = terrorist. Occupying force = 'good guys'. Yet you must have seen on this page how the TPTB et al is using that word, drenching media with it to marginalize and demonize people they dont like, aka to manipulate you into hating those they want you to hate...so what happened to deny ignorance starts at home?

YES having bombs dropped on your head is terrifying - tell that to Palestinian kids! Israel at least has shelters, where do Palestinian kids run to when phosphorous is being dropped onto their playgrounds? And dont say that's just hyperbole, its fact and its been documented by UN offices on the ground! These kids live day and night with IDF troops jets tanks and helicopters...no shelters to run to, no where to run to. You are where you are by choice, if you dont want to be there then leave.

All other arguments aside completely, it remains that instead of working with or respecting the existing populace and their rights as human beings and land owners, Israel chose instead to displace it by force. Further, they chose to make house in a wasp nest and expected the wasps not to bite them for the violation. Don't like it ? Move!

Israel's own choices and its lack of willingness to take responsibility for those choices are as much to blame as any other factor here and when even trying to demonstrate that to them in friendship is considered a hate crime..its beyond ridiculous, it's self harming borderline and suicidal behavior and its being enabled by even sicker individuals eagerly reaping a fortune at other peoples expense.
People supporting Israel right now are not Israels friends.

So you really think it is ok for Hamas to try and kill civilians? By your logic then every American citizen, along with the citizens of all the Coalition countries are legitimate targets for the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, etc right? Is it also ok for Native Americans to launch missiles from their reservations into the US? All that land was stolen from them...

At some point people have to accept that Israel has been here for 60+ years and is not going anywhere. Once they do that and stop trying to kill everyone in Israel then maybe they can work out something. But as long as they keep targeting civilians there will be no peace and they will be considered terrorists. If they want to be upgraded to Freedom Fighters, then only attack military targets or the walls and stop spewing hatred of Jews - I would have a little bit of respect for them if that was the case, but they really don't care very much about that, they just want to kill as many Jews as possible.

White phosphorous is no longer being used... And the Palestinians could have bomb shelters if their leadership wasn't embezzling so much of the aid they receive or using that money to build missiles... But if they did that, then there would be no reason for shelters as Israel would have no reason to hit Gaza...

With respect to the overuse of the term terrorist in recent years, I absolutely agree. When it is applied to people with opposing political views and the like, that is disgusting and infuriating to me. But when used to describe those that try to kill civilians, the shoe fits...

a reply to: intrepid

So what? Israel has always had a claim to that land...long before any so-called Palestinsians. If you wish to believe a lie, go ahead. After all you are a mod.

Tell me Intrepid, why does ATS condone hate speech with it's plethora of anti-Israel threads. Seems lopsided to me.

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: intrepid

So what? Israel has always had a claim to that land...long before any so-called Palestinsians. If you wish to believe a lie, go ahead.

How can they lay claim to land lost 2000 years ago? By that logic there's about 330 million Americans that should vacate the country and give it back to who it belongs.

After all you are a mod.

Weak man.

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: intrepid

So what? Israel has always had a claim to that land...long before any so-called Palestinsians. If you wish to believe a lie, go ahead. After all you are a mod.

Tell me Intrepid, why does ATS condone hate speech with it's plethora of anti-Israel threads. Seems lopsided to me.

So religious book, that is not even considered to be historical book, means that Israelis had a claim to the land that was lost 2000 years ago? What about all those Palestinians that lost their land while they were already born (and forced to live in a biggest concentration camp on Earth)?

a reply to: baburak

Dude, I don't know what you've read, but if you believe in this people called Palestinians, then I can't help you. They are a myth and even those who called themselves Palestinians will tell you that there is no such thing. It is an invention to be used as a weapon against Israel in trying to abolish this nation from existing.

Once again, this thread is devolving into a hate Israel thread and why the f*ing Palestinians are the innocent victims to Israel's evil doing. I can't f*ing stand to see mods take the bait and join in.

originally posted by: baburak
a reply to: Jesuslives4u

Wait ... so these 10 or so rockets were fired from 200+ sites in Gaza at once? I don't see the math here. I don't see any of the wreckage from the firing sites either. Just 150+ dead civilians.

Because clearly you don't understand the situation and have no desire to learn more... Several hundred missiles were fired into Israel in the last few days - those sites were hit along with Hamas related targets; Their offices, homes, weapon storage areas, etc...
en.wikipedia.org...

What wreckage from a launch site are you expecting to see? This isn't like launching a space shuttle or anything.
It's just an angled metal frame for most of them - Some of the larger ones imported from Iran have a little bit more to them, but still nothing too elaborate...


And after you hit that with a decent sized Israeli missile or bomb, there will not be much left

a reply to: CommandoJoe

Now that I've slept on this, these laws are akin to laws enforcing the Spanish inquisition. Believe in the Catholic church, or die. Questions, even about simply verifying history, is thought crime now? Totalitarianism? That is your goal?

Besides, lets focus back on today?

Do Palestinians have rights? Do you consider them human? Do they have equal protection under the law? Any answer but yes, is unacceptable. Failure to answer, is by default, no.

I think my nation's relationship with Israel, needs serious pause and reconsideration. Actions as of late by your government, clearly demonstrates Israel doest have my nation's, or humanity's interests in mind. Our nation's people are not on the same page.

If you wish the American people to remain your ally, answers, not accusations, are required.

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: baburak

Dude, I don't know what you've read, but if you believe in this people called Palestinians, then I can't help you. They are a myth and even those who called themselves Palestinians will tell you that there is no such thing. It is an invention to be used as a weapon against Israel in trying to abolish this nation from existing.

They are called that because the area is known as Palestine. People in the US are called Americans. Which is true but then again so are people in about 4 dozen other countries that are in the western hemisphere. What should we call them? Middle Eastern Arabs? That would be as confusing as all those "Americans".