Palistine is the Problem Not Israel

a reply to: buster2010

These are known as false flag attacks.

Tel Aviv 1920-1937




Tel Aviv 1960's




Tel Aviv today,,




i guess it is pretty clear why Hamas wants to blow it up,,

it looks bad for the neighbourhood.

u know after 70 years from nothing but dirt.

I think both countries got their pants on backwards. Nobody owns the land, it belongs to the earth. Why can't they just share the area in dispute like it was a separate state from both. There is no reason for their arguing, they just have to make the holy area accessible to all people that want to go there.

a reply to: BobAthome

i guess it is pretty clear why Hamas wants to blow it up,, it looks bad for the neighbourhood. u know after 70 years from nothing but dirt.

It also helps when you have other nations handing you billions of dollars every year. Not to mention no one is targeting your infrastructure for demolition.

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: BobAthome

i guess it is pretty clear why Hamas wants to blow it up,, it looks bad for the neighbourhood. u know after 70 years from nothing but dirt.

It also helps when you have other nations handing you billions of dollars every year. Not to mention no one is targeting your infrastructure for demolition.

You mean like the Palestinians do?

PA leaders have received more aid money per person than anyone else in history and yet the results have been remarkably unimpressive. The leaders have looted the money and used it as political pay-offs to buy patronage. By patronage I mean paying off the proportionately huge security forces that guard the PA and provide jobs for its supporters and benefits for political supporters.

LINK

Wikipedia

Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip receive one of the highest levels of aid in the world.

originally posted by: CommandoJoe

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: BobAthome

i guess it is pretty clear why Hamas wants to blow it up,, it looks bad for the neighbourhood. u know after 70 years from nothing but dirt.

It also helps when you have other nations handing you billions of dollars every year. Not to mention no one is targeting your infrastructure for demolition.

You mean like the Palestinians do?

PA leaders have received more aid money per person than anyone else in history and yet the results have been remarkably unimpressive. The leaders have looted the money and used it as political pay-offs to buy patronage. By patronage I mean paying off the proportionately huge security forces that guard the PA and provide jobs for its supporters and benefits for political supporters.

LINK

Wikipedia

Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip receive one of the highest levels of aid in the world.

Did you actually read your link from Wiki?

The lion's share of the aid comes from the European Union and the United States. According to estimates made by the World Bank The Palestinian Authority received $525 million of international aid in the first half of 2010, $1.4 billion in 2009 and $1.8 billion in 2008.

Israel along gets over 3 billion a year just from America. If you figure in loans that are immediately forgiven and bank loans that America co-signs for Israel gets between 12 to 15 billion a year from America. To act like Palestine get more than Israel is laughable.

a reply to: Not Authorized

They need to assimilate into our world. They need to learn to coexist.

Every time they have come close to doing so, they were segregated, abused etc...

What do you think that the state of Israel is a result of? Worldly love for Jews? hahah

originally posted by: BobAthome
Tel Aviv 1920-1937

Tel Aviv 1960's

Tel Aviv today,,

i guess it is pretty clear why Hamas wants to blow it up,,

it looks bad for the neighbourhood.

u know after 70 years from nothing but dirt.

Tel Aviv could look like New York, it doesn't change the fact that Israel are a bunch of racist thugs.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: CommandoJoe

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: BobAthome

i guess it is pretty clear why Hamas wants to blow it up,, it looks bad for the neighbourhood. u know after 70 years from nothing but dirt.

It also helps when you have other nations handing you billions of dollars every year. Not to mention no one is targeting your infrastructure for demolition.

You mean like the Palestinians do?

PA leaders have received more aid money per person than anyone else in history and yet the results have been remarkably unimpressive. The leaders have looted the money and used it as political pay-offs to buy patronage. By patronage I mean paying off the proportionately huge security forces that guard the PA and provide jobs for its supporters and benefits for political supporters.

LINK

Wikipedia

Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip receive one of the highest levels of aid in the world.

Did you actually read your link from Wiki?

The lion's share of the aid comes from the European Union and the United States. According to estimates made by the World Bank The Palestinian Authority received $525 million of international aid in the first half of 2010, $1.4 billion in 2009 and $1.8 billion in 2008.

Israel along gets over 3 billion a year just from America. If you figure in loans that are immediately forgiven and bank loans that America co-signs for Israel gets between 12 to 15 billion a year from America. To act like Palestine get more than Israel is laughable.

Your assertion was that the Palestinians were not able to develop a thriving and prosperous city like Tel Aviv because they didn't receive billions in foreign aid, which they have... The first link talks about where all that money actually went, which explains why this aid doesn't seem to do much for the Palestinians. Abbas is estimated to be worth $100 million and looking at his background and history, it's hard to correlate that level of wealth. Arafat was estimated to be worth $300 million to $1.3 billion...

Co-signed LOANS are not foreign aid, they are repaid by the recipient. The loans don't necessarily have to originate in the US (and I haven't ever seen a breakdown regarding loans or their sources), they are just guaranteed by the US gov... And:

In 1992, Israel received $10 billion in loan guarantees from the American government to help the nation rebuild after its economy took a major hit following the Gulf War. Israel repaid every loan it withdrew and the United States was never called on to fulfill it guarantor obligations. Likewise, Israel has never defaulted against the loan guarantees put in place in 2003.

The majority of what Israel receives from the US is military hardware and not cash. The reason for this is that it is in the best interest of the US to help maintain a stable and strong ally in the region. Other than possibly Turkey, there really isn't anyone else around.

With respect to the immediately forgiven loans, I've never heard this before and have only found vague references about it, nothing solid. Do you have links? Just curious as I'm sure it could be possible, there's a lot of shady stuff going on in the world.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: Jesuslives4u
For a people less than 3 generations ago, who were allegedly genocided themselves... their actions I must admit, make me question the validity of that claim. It would be like putting your hand in a fire, getting burnt, then placing your other hand into the same fire, knowing the results beforehand.

So you're a Holocaust denier then?

They do not belong there. The problem is Israel. Even the people I suspect are members of our intelligence community posting here, are trying to tell you that.

Whos intelligence community? This forum does have a global membership after all... And who do you think are members of said community and why? Just curious...

Rome obliterated Israel in 70 ad. They were conquered, and kicked out. That is just the way it is. Does Greece today have claim to all the lands Alexander the Great received from his conquests? No. And that is far more historically probable and accurate, than a book of fiction telling me one race of people is God's chosen. Not many have the audacity to claim that. It is called chutzpah for a reason.

I don't place nearly as much weight in ancient claims to the land as I do in the fact that Israel in its current form has existed for over 60 years and isn't going anywhere anytime soon... People need to accept that and move on.

Israel's free pass without questioning is over. They need to assimilate into our world. They need to learn to coexist. If they are unwilling, that is their problem.

Israel coexists with most of the world quite well, it's just those that want to kill Jews and destroy Israel they have a problem with.

Voltaire had it right: “To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize”

Hmmm... wonder who that would be...

It's simpler than many of you think.

Treat the Palestinian people like people. That's the solution. That's what Israel is not doing. Easy.

The problem is, if you live your whole live under oppression, would you fight?
I would.
And yes you are right with, they fire their rockets from civilian neighbourhoods.... but what else should they do?
I mean gaza is one of the places with the most dense population on earth, there is nothing like a non-civilian neighbourhood.
There are people everywhere.
If you want to fight, there is no other solution than doing it on civilian ground.

If Isreal would give them their rightful land, nobody needs to die.

I think people here do not understand that they live their whole life in fear and like animals in a cage.
Just imagine you would be in their place.... I am pretty sure you would want to fight too.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

Since when is being neutral a crime? Aren't you, when you are honest about yourself?

Israel has a problem with innocent Palestinians. They treat all Palestinians like dirt, take every single right and freedom from them and then wonder why Palestinians fight back.

originally posted by: Jesuslives4u
Many of us were not around when the U.N. granted Israel its statehood back in 1948. Do you know how Palestine looked in 1948? Why don't you research it. When Israel and its people moved back they found the land given to them filthy, the waters were infested and the land was barren. The Palestine government found it funny and laughed and made jokes until after a few years of hard work and sweat from the Israelites the waters cleaned up and the land became fruitful once again. Once the Palestines saw this they wanted the land back. Does this sound right to you?

No it doesn't...
The Palestinians were forced from their land via a number of military, and psy-ops events that caused them to flee in fear.
Palestinian Exodus: Opening the Archives
The Palestinians never “wanted the land back”, they never wanted to leave in the first place...

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: CommandoJoe

Since when is being neutral a crime? Aren't you, when you are honest about yourself?

Holocaust denial IS a crime

originally posted by: aLLeKs
The problem is, if you live your whole live under oppression, would you fight?
I would.

I mean gaza is one of the places with the most dense population on earth, there is nothing like a non-civilian neighbourhood. There are people everywhere. If you want to fight, there is no other solution than doing it on civilian ground.

Very wrong - ever look at a satellite image of Gaza? There is plenty of open space with no houses... Hamas specifically chooses densely packed areas in the hope that innocent civilians will be killed - it fuels their propaganda machine.

Follow the LINK and it will show you the northern part of Gaza and plenty of non-urban areas. switch to the map view to find the borders easier, and pan south to see many other open areas where civilians would not be...

If Isreal would give them their rightful land, nobody needs to die.

If Hamas wouldn't attack Israel they would have no reason to hit Gaza... Israel pulled all settlers and military out of Gaza, and what they got in return was increased rocket fire from Hamas.

If Hamas wouldn't attack Israel they would have no reason to hit Gaza

That is like a prison guard saying: "if the prisoners wouldn't complain, we wouldn't have to beat them"

a reply to: CommandoJoe

Nice...but.... Is being neutral a crime? :-)

Not sure why you assumed I was European though. I'm an American. It is my right to question things and form opinion without interference. I choose to remain neutral. I can also express that doubt.

Is expressing doubt on the official version of this story that taboo? Cui Bono?