Palistine is the Problem Not Israel

a reply to: CommandoJoe

And yet the body count is staggeringly different.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: CommandoJoe

Lol. No agenda there, right? I think the numbers are fraudulent to gain sympathy and support for Zionists. You are placing words in my mouth. Exaggeration is fraud.

Does Palestine, and its people, have rights? The exact same ones you do? Yes or no?

Perhaps it is time for a modern investigation of all claims, using science to verify it all. Attempt to reserve judgment, and let science work and speak. Oh noes, that would be terrifying. Yet, it would seal either side forever. Oh wait... that's illegal lol.

I can't wait to see the reasons you will give me, why we shouldn't.

So how many Jews do you think were killed? Only 1 million? 100k?

The Palestinian people do have rights, the Palestinians in Israel that are citizens actually have more rights than me as a non-Israeli citizen here... As far as in the West Bank, no they don't have the same rights as me because we are not in the same position, location, etc. Look, I don't deny this is not an ideal situation, and Israel absolutely does some things wrong, but there is no simple solution. But I will not waver in the assertion that Hamas trying to kill civilians is the answer or will help improve the situation in any way.

If there is fraud involved with the official Holocaust story, then I have no problem with that being brought to light. Just don't do it in those countries listed or travel into/through them, or you might have a problem...

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: CommandoJoe

And yet the body count is staggeringly different.

did anyone ask if the dead were Hamas??? or just that they were dead?

or were Hamas removed from the total?

Cause being Recognized Terrorists by the U.N and others,,were there any bounties?

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: CommandoJoe

And yet the body count is staggeringly different.

If Israel had the same philosophy as Hamas, there would be 1000's or 10's of thousands dead every day...
Gaza has more deaths because Hamas intentionally puts their civilians in harms way, while Israel does everything it can to shield its people... Is it really so hard to believe this is the case? Hamas has publicly called on their people to be human shields... If you care to look it is out there.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

Oh, I have no doubt about it. You're outmanned, outgunned, what do you do? Play the media game. They may set up amongst civilians but that doesn't absolve Israel from killing innocents. It's no the first time gov'ts have used their own people in this manner. The Soviet Union during WW2 comes to mind.

a reply to: Jesuslives4u

An absolute joke of a statment! If Israel hadn't stolen someone elses land Hamas wouldn't have even formed in the first place. I think you will find that all of the problems in that area of the world are due to blatant land grabbing by Israel.

Although i do not condone the violence and murder i can understand why the palestinians are upset. If somebody try to steel your home what would you do??? Just rollover and say "take it"?

No, didn't think so either.

a reply to: Freenrgy2

Palestine IS a "State", real and legally recognized as such by all the entire civil world.

You keep saying it is not...it never was...and that the victims there are not really Palestinians.

While defending Israel...in all they have done and will do.

And YOU have the balls to point out people's views as delusional or brainwashed? I've read everything you have posted here and you seem fanatical and totalitarian. You sir are the one who has huffed too many of the media-fumes here. You are the one wearing the "indoctrination uniform" here.

The world's brightest minds have screamed from the most prestigious podiums for decades about the crimes against the Palestinians. Entire books have been written by masters on foreign and domestic policy on the matter.

No sir...it is you who is blind here. Not those brave and aware enough to stand and disagree with your false views.

And to answer your question "would the Middle East be better off without Israel".

The answer is a cold hard "yes". Without a doubt. In fact, the majority of the world's surface dwelling people would also be better off. And safer. Much much safer.

Enjoy your day.

MM

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: buster2010

What, are you blind? It is you who refuses to open your eyes. I have presented you FACTS, yet you believe whatever illogical dogma you've either seen or heard.

You have done nothing but post the same Israeli propaganda that every Israeli supporter posts. All your "facts" come from pro Israeli sites.
If there is no place called Palestine as you claim then why do these Orthodox Jews stand with the place you claim doesn't exist against Israel.

a reply to: metodex

I said "Western" meaning Western Europe and the US. France, England and and other Western Empires carved up the Middle East for their own 'interests' without any regard to the local population (That's imperalism). The US, clumsily and naively, took over the (or was cocerced into) costs of 'policing' the Middle Eastern and, to a lesser though not insugnificnt degree, Eastern Empires ruled by Western States while the 'profits' continue to roll into Western coffers.

Don't get me wrong, US business, makes a pretty penny from Western Empire, we the people don't see the rewards.

Calling these countries independent soveriegn nations is a misnomer and legal fiction, the US military occupies, to this day, every country we've ever set foot in.

See the documentary "Standing Army".

I believe that we've been used by the very powers that we declared independence from nearly 240 years ago. I believe this have been very deliberate and systematic over the years.

I do, however, believe that the 'average' US citizen's intentions used to be good. The Marshall plan was a huge success and not only got Western Powers back on their feet (and here's where it began in earnest) and a bullwork against USSR style communism.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

The people in Gaza are poor and have no resources due to blockcades. The Isrealis have Billions of Dollars. They send their poor to settle stolen land.

You cannot make a valid comparion between two STATES with such asymmetical resources.

It's like comparing the USA to Haiti and asking why doesn't Haiti provide more Forgien Aid to Isreal then the USA.

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
I think a majority of the problems we see today stem from the 1948 UN decision. What gave the UN the right to declare that land property of the Israelis and take it from the people that occupied it?

It doesn't matter what shape the area was in, it belonged to the Palestinians. So I can see why they might be a bit upset.

Palestine was a Nazi regime, they are lucky they weren't given over to Stalin at the end of WWII.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: intrepid

That area has not always been referred to as Palestine. There is no nation known as Palestine, no true Palestinian people.

Call them displaced arabs, most likely Jordanians.

Oh please Palestine has existed sine it was named by the Romans. The place that never existed however was a nation called Israel it didn't exist until 1948.

WHy are you letting a western name stand? the romans were westerners correct? It was JUDEA beforeAnd Israel actually did exist one time before in the past beside judea.Also That name Palestinia was given to ALL who lived there and as such hebrews,arabs and all there became palestinians. Not all hebrews were taken to europe when the romans left. I remember posting evidence that they share DNA as well(not all hebrews/jews but enough)

Still how about stop over looking the evidence.

a reply to: buster2010

According to Western Powers it did.

The Middle East was carved up by the Western (England and France) powers after the fall of the Ottoman Empire as a result of WWI. All done over cocktails and ordeorves is what I've heard....

www.npr.org...

Napoleon's foray into Egypt in 1798, in the midst of the French Revolution, began a long string of European adventures in the Middle East, leading to colonization, resistance, and eventually war.

www.npr.org...





www.history.com...


"In the Sykes-Picot agreement, concluded on May 19, 1916, France and Britain divided up the Arab territories of the former Ottoman Empire into spheres of influence. In its designated sphere, it was agreed, each country shall be allowed to establish such direct or indirect administration or control as they desire and as they may think fit to arrange with the Arab State or Confederation of Arab States. Under Sykes-Picot, the Syrian coast and much of modern-day Lebanon went to France; Britain would take direct control over central and southern Mesopotamia, around the Baghdad and Basra provinces. Palestine would have an international administration, as other Christian powers, namely Russia, held an interest in this region. The rest of the territory in question—a huge area including modern-day Syria, Mosul in northern Iraq, and Jordan—would have local Arab chiefs under French supervision in the north and British in the south. Also, Britain and France would retain free passage and trade in the other's zone of influence."

originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: CommandoJoe

The people in Gaza are poor and have no resources due to blockcades. The Isrealis have Billions of Dollars. They send their poor to settle stolen land.

You cannot make a valid comparion between two STATES with such asymmetical resources.

It's like comparing the USA to Haiti and asking why doesn't Haiti provide more Forgien Aid to Isreal then the USA.

I'm not quite sure how this post relates to mine... I was speaking about the difference in tactics used by Hamas vs those used by the Israeli military...

But the Palestinians are kept poor by their leaders embezzling millions of dollars from the aid sent to help them. In addition, the constant terrorism keeps the borders much more closed than they used to be. Years ago before they started sending suicide bombers into Israel, the borders were more open and 40% of Palestinians held good paying jobs in Israel where the minimum wage is currently 3x higher than in the West Bank...

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
Israel's roots

Facts?

Israel is a Godless nation, how can you justify Israel's occupation with religion? You simply can't and just so you know, Hebrews/Jews inherited that land in history based on righteous conduct, yes, the covenant was conditional. I can think of many things that Israel and Zionism has done which would fall into the bracket of unrighteous. Go look those facts up.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: CommandoJoe

Oh, I have no doubt about it. You're outmanned, outgunned, what do you do? Play the media game.

I'll ask again - so you (and those that starred your post) advocate terrorism and intentionally targeting of civilians by Hamas? Because that's what it looks like to me... You think attacking civilians is their only option? I posted a few possibilities off the top of my head earlier.

Seems to me then you should also support any terrorist attacks that might happen to US civilians because of what the US military did in Iraq and Afghanistan... Or to the civilians of the other countries that participated over there.

originally posted by: CommandoJoe

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: CommandoJoe

Oh, I have no doubt about it. You're outmanned, outgunned, what do you do? Play the media game.

I'll ask again - so you (and those that starred your post) advocate terrorism and intentionally targeting of civilians by Hamas? Because that's what it looks like to me... You think attacking civilians is their only option? I posted a few possibilities off the top of my head earlier.

Attacking or killing? 2 different things. Israelis are good at it. Palestinians, well, they suck. Not that I want Israelis to die. I've already said that the Palestinians are fighting the only war they can. They have NOTHING. They NEED the world's public opinion. That's all they have.

Seems to me then you should also support any terrorist attacks that might happen to US civilians because of what the US military did in Iraq and Afghanistan... Or to the civilians of the other countries that participated over there.

Nope, don't support it but understand it. Don't want enemies? Don't create them. Too bad Palestine doesn't have that option.

a reply to: CommandoJoe

I would love to know the actual numbers. The problem is, the final tally keeps changing to the lower side. Yet.. the claims go higher and higher. I see this as a problem. Someone is lying. Who and why?

I did want to thank you for verifying that according to your view, Palestinians do NOT have a right to self determination in the "West Bank", and "Gaza" as mandated by the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (Article 1 for starters). The only Citizens in your eyes, are Israeli Citizens.

In my discussions with you, here is what I learned: Palestine is the worlds biggest 21st century concentration camp, with not the same rights as you. Questioning historical validity, is not permissible and will be met with threats. Only Israeli Citizens, have rights. On the surface, I see an incredible amount of tribal racism that needs resolution before this dissolves into a really nasty war.

And you wonder why I doubt?

If this is how you truly feel, and if this is how Israel is going to act like this towards other human beings, it really is time to have full public debate as to their actions, and re-evaluate the relationship between our nations. As far as I am concerned, I will no longer support any of your governments actions.

We don't need our relationship with you to stain our soul any further.

Time for the United Nations to become intimately involved. The United States, should no longer veto any resolutions. Let the highest court in the world, the ICJ, decide what is going on.

PS, as for my idea of a new scientific trial. We won't hold this kind of trial in Europe. Clearly, the law you pointed out makes investigation too biased to get to the truth. People would be too afraid. We can have this new kind of trial happen right in the State of New York. Hold it at the UN Headquarters where there are no such restrictions. Lets have the best in the fields of chemistry, forgery detection, historical research, economics, etc, all come have their say.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
On the surface, I see an incredible amount of tribal racism that needs resolution.

Could it be that simple? Tribalism? Haven't we evolved out that crap yet?

a reply to: Mr Mask

Really, I said all that. Well, I'll be.

Yes, you are delusional if you believe in palestine or that they have been the only "victims" here. Most prestigious podiums you say. I guess that makes them there smart, dern't it.

You call those brave who disagree with me? I call all of you cowards for not applying critical thinking to this issue. Remind me of democrats who, when faced with cold hard facts, scream at the top of their lungs trying to shout everyone else down so as to be the only person heard in the room. Sickening really.

The so-called people from a so-called place named palestine would be better off to go back to the countries they came from...namely Jordan and Syria.

Go ahead ATS....gang up on me, hate me, call me delusional, but in the end I know how this will turn out. YOU ALL LOSE.