AZ residents at chemtrail hearing: ‘We’re being sprayed like we’re bugs and it’s really not

a reply to: christmaspig

You asked some good questions that deserve good answers. I'd like to see them myself.

originally posted by: F4guy
originally posted by: veteranhumanbeing
originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
originally posted by: Kratos40
a reply to: olaru12

[I]F4guy[/I] If these aircraft are at contrail making altitude over Tucson, they aren't going to Huachuca. It's only 44nm away and a normal letdown from cruise altitude begins 100-120nm from landing. A normal descent is about 2,000 feet per minute and you're cranking along at 7 miles/minute until you get to 10,000 feet where you slow to about 4 miles/minute. Of course, if I really need to, I can get down a lot more quickly, but the noise from the screaming passengers is really disconcerting and the FAs get really bitchy about being pasted against the ceiling.

They are not screaming along and not flying at 35,000 feet; also there is no noise. They are visible enough to see a slight profile and as they are silver its hard to determine altitude. My best guess; are flying at an altitude between 5000-7000 feet. Thanks for your response F4guy.

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: F4guy
originally posted by: veteranhumanbeing
originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
originally posted by: Kratos40
a reply to: olaru12




They are not screaming along and not flying at 35,000 feet; also there is no noise. They are visible enough to see a slight profile and as they are silver its hard to determine altitude. My best guess; are flying at an altitude between 5000-7000 feet. Thanks for your response F4guy.

A jet flying at 5000 to 7000 feet would be easy to make out as a jet. That's pretty darn low.

I can make out the outline of a jet flying even at 30,000 to 35,000 feet (albeit just barely).

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People
Exactly. I posted photos showing a prime example of that in this thread. Two days ago: contrails stretching from horizon to horizon and lasting for a long time.

Today: not a single plane was leaving a trail (and I can watch literally dozens of planes per hour from my back garden, given my location).

The difference? Early yesterday we had a low pressure system move in, with heavy rain and thunderstorms, as anyone following Wimbledon on TV will have seen.

Today had a noticeably fresher feeling air mass, with clear blue skies, lower humidity and scattered cumulus, and no contrails whatsoever.

As for the altitude, a quick glance at FR24 shows that planes right up to 35,000ft plus are clearly discernible when close to overhead (and I mean as an outline, not just a dot).

Big passenger jets at altitudes below 10,000ft appear really big in the sky. Planes taking off to the west from Heathrow pass just north of my house at about 10-12,000ft, typically, and they are low enough to identify which airline they are from with the naked eye. Surprisingly quiet, though, thankfully, when you are not in line with the takeoff path but are off to one side

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Aisling
a reply to: ~Lucidity

Silvery planes. Yep, that's what I saw too.

Your post just confirms what I see and know.

Me too. The 2 planes I saw working together making a grid pattern were silver.

This was in the middle of the desert. Clear sky, no clouds. I just watched them. They'd make a loop turn, then fly back over the grid.

Yes yes and yes; these planes have maneuverability (slow and go).

a reply to: vethumanbeing
Has anyone got any video of these planes "making loop turns" to make a grid? As opposed to separate planes flying the same paths and the trails drifting?

I've yet to see any, and I'd be interested to see what planes these are and what manoeuvres they are making.


If you search YouTube for "chemtrail grid" you get videos like this, which is a perfect example of how planes flying the same flight paths create parallel lines as the trails drift with the wind, creating a "grid effect" without anything funny going on at all. (Video is a time lapse, obviously)


Surely nobody on this thread would argue that the video above shows "chemtrails", would they?

a reply to: vethumanbeing

They are visible enough to see a slight profile and as they are silver its hard to determine altitude. My best guess; are flying at an altitude between 5000-7000 feet.

But you determined they fly 160 mph. How?

BTW, that's ONE of the questions you said you thought you answered, but didn't.

originally posted by: Rob48
a reply to: vethumanbeing
Has anyone got any video of these planes "making loop turns" to make a grid? As opposed to separate planes flying the same paths and the trails drifting?
I've yet to see any, and I'd be interested to see what planes these are and what manoeuvres they are making.
If you search YouTube for "chemtrail grid" you get videos like this, which is a perfect example of how planes flying the same flight paths create parallel lines as the trails drift with the wind, creating a "grid effect" without anything funny going on at all. (Video is a time lapse, obviously)


Surely nobody on this thread would argue that the video above shows "chemtrails", would they?

There is no reason for grid patterns to be flown over the prairies (cattle country) in Arizona, particularly grazing land. There are private landing strips here and there for small prop planes some ranchers own but we know who owns what planes as they have distinctive color patterns. No air shows out here that would explain the fancy flying looping techniques; or the fact the 'contrails' don't dissipate and cause eye watering, dry caughing and nose bleeds.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

The fact that planes fly over there is the reason for the grids. They're commercial and military flights going from one side of the country to the other. Kind of hard to do without flying over that area.

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: vethumanbeing

They are visible enough to see a slight profile and as they are silver its hard to determine altitude. My best guess; are flying at an altitude between 5000-7000 feet.

But you determined they fly 160 mph. How?

BTW, that's ONE of the questions you said you thought you answered, but didn't

My apologies; they probably fly at a slower speed to make the sharp turns (the airspace these grids occupy would not accommodate a fighter jet in a dog fight scenario). The A10 stalls at 140mph; is it a modified version of this?, what I have witnessed are not old military relic repurposed prop planes.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I'm not being a smartass here. Thanks for the reply but I'm looking for an answer to the question.

HOW do you determine the speed?

a reply to: vethumanbeing

All A-10s have the same stall speed. Going slow would actually make them turn wider, not sharper. There is a specific speed that they maneuver best at. They won't make sharp turns near their stall speed because they'll either stall in the turn or just after it, when they bleed energy and slow down.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: vethumanbeing

The fact that planes fly over there is the reason for the grids. They're commercial and military flights going from one side of the country to the other. Kind of hard to do without flying over that area.

Right; but I've seen as many as four, flying in a strange sort of ballet; NOT military maneuvers. The trails do not stretch 100 degrees of the horizon line. These are checker board patterns that are square. You see the trails start and end as they are being laid out; very much like a air show when the Thunderbirds or Blue Angels expel the red white and blue smoke trails in a pattern. I've seen this happen in Tucson, there are no reasonable flight paths that would explain the grids, Tucson is a small airport (no where near hub size), not enough traffic to warrant the creation of these; they appear very quickly, I've seen one be created in under 20 minutes.

a reply to: vethumanbeing
Simulator showing how contrails make a grid - you don't have to do anything - just let it run. You can change parameters (wind strength & direction, a/c speed & direction) if you want

a reply to: vethumanbeing

The trails do not stretch 100 degrees of the horizon line. These are checker board patterns that are square.

How do these 'grids' behave after being formed? How long do they last?

ETA:

The trails do not stretch 100 degrees of the horizon line.

How far do they stretch then?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: vethumanbeing

All A-10s have the same stall speed. Going slow would actually make them turn wider, not sharper. There is a specific speed that they maneuver best at. They won't make sharp turns near their stall speed because they'll either stall in the turn or just after it, when they bleed energy and slow down.

You are nitpicking, of course as the pilot you know your aircraft and what its capabilities are. Yoke (old style pull in) full throttle when coming out of a turn (new style a joy stick). You would be surprised the tight turning radius of an A10 at very slow speeds (to experience it is to believe it).

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: vethumanbeing

I'm not being a smartass here. Thanks for the reply but I'm looking for an answer to the question.

HOW do you determine the speed?

Its an educated guess, visually you cannot tell. You have the understanding that what a commercial airline is moving at approximately 500 miles an hour it will take a certain period of time for it to appear and then disappear (visual range). These planes are not traveling in one direction only and they hang around. There is no way from a ground perspective without instruments to measure this. Have you ever been out at sea without a landmark/horizon line (as its foggy) or midnight and no other compass/reference than the SUN which has set? You are asking me to answer the impossible.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

It's not nitpicking, it's fact. Even pushing up the throttle in a turn is only going to get you so far. If you make hard turns near stall speed you stall.

I'm well aware of the capabilities of the A-10 and how tight it can turn, but it's subject to the same rules as any other plane.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

You are asking me to answer the impossible.

No sir, I am not I am asking you to substantiate your own claim.

No, these planes are not 777 or 747 jet aircraft, they are smaller and have maneuverability; move at speeds of 160 MPH make 45 degree turns within a small air space.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: DenyObfuscation
a reply to: vethumanbeing

The trails do not stretch 100 degrees of the horizon line. These are checker board patterns that are square.

How do these 'grids' behave after being formed? How long do they last?

ETA:

The trails do not stretch 100 degrees of the horizon line.

How far do they stretch then?

How far do they stretch? A human fist is approximately 5 degrees in measurement. Holding up to the grid pattern approximately 35 degrees of the sky. They don't become clouds, or thick things, they dissipate very slowly over a period of 3 hours or so. You would imagine in Arizona (as dry it is here, no humidity dew points normal are at 15) they (if water vapor trails) would immediately disappear/ be absorbed sucked back into the atmosphere.