Firefighter chases dog and both are missing 411?

a reply to: RUFFREADY
little tidbit: Infantry soldiers are only as badass as the fights they have fought

a reply to: EyesOpenMouthShut

It's a Joe Dirt line you guys. Dennis Miller!

But I must admit when I read about Eyes laughing really
hard. That got me laugh'n.

So yeah.

originally posted by: EyesOpenMouthShut
a reply to: RUFFREADY
little tidbit: Infantry soldiers are only as badass as the fights they have fought

Well I trusted no one and I am alive ...and now I just see things as they are..and the things that aren't so well..I look again ..and if they aren't doing any better I bomb them!! LOL

originally posted by: RUFFREADY

originally posted by: EyesOpenMouthShut
a reply to: RUFFREADY
little tidbit: Infantry soldiers are only as badass as the fights they have fought

Well I trusted no one and I am alive ...and now I just see things as they are..and the things that aren't so well..I look again ..and if they aren't doing any better I bomb them!! LOL

I trusted the men to my left and right and they saw me through some hard times,
BTW i lost count of firefights alone around 150. bombed some people but for good reason. but thats for another thread

What did they say?----- ----- The body was found 3/4th mile from the campsite, and ~1200 feet above the Sespe Creek (river bottom)?
The footprints found, were said to be heading in a southerly direction…from camp…along Sespe Creek.
The footprints also ‘said’ he was walking (not running), and apparently unimpaired, at the time they were made (and ‘made/imprinted’ the weekend of Herdman’s disappearance).

A lot of questions have been raised to the veracity of the claim that…Duke ran off from the campsite, and Mike went after the dog…dressed only in board shorts, a t-shirt and…bare feet.

Numerous reports of this tale have stated that Mr. Byars’ accompanied Herdman initially, in the search…and that they became separated…and after some fruitless effort at regaining contact with Herdman, Byars made his way back to camp…
And, the next morning (Saturday), when neither Herdman or Duke had returned…Byars resumed his search for them…which lasted all that day.
At some point (don’t know if it was Saturday or Sunday), Byars reportedly decided that all involved would be better served if he made his way back to civilization and brought others into the search effort.

Numerous reports say that Herdman and Duke were “inseparable”…
Herdman had apparently taken Duke on more than one such hiking adventure…
One could only imagine that, to take a dog on a multi-day hike into rugged back-country…Herdman must have been confident in Duke’s manner…and that…the dog would not bolt.
Thus, I am inclined to believe the “inseparable” claims.

Pertinent Overview…

ATS Big Pic
If you check the location designated as “Possible Campsite” on the Google Earth image…you’ll find that it is, perhaps the best possible location to set up a campsite in the general vicinity (for a mile or more in either direction)…and yet…it still required a nice climb (100 feet or so above the river bottom at its easiest ascent)…which likewise means that…if the campsite was on this rise, and Duke set off on some misadventure (spooked, curious, or otherwise)…there were only two ways to go --- (1) up the mountainside, or (2) down to the creek/river bottom.
The easiest of those options would have been…back down the same way they had climbed from the creek/river-bottom to the campsite.
That is, of course, assuming that the path of travel was dictated by ease…

If, though, Duke set off after something in another direction (which would probably only have been East to East-Southeast along the ridge overlooking the Sespe)…said direction of travel (and pursuit), being more strenuous and time consuming, might return to the Sespe’…at or about the “fork” just south and around the bend from the “Possible Campsite”.
I have virtually ruled-out the ‘upper’ (East to East-Southeast) course on the bases of (1) ‘ease’, and…more importantly – (2) where the footprints were found, and what the ‘trackers’ interpreted from them.

Estimated Body Location

ATS Big Pic
Judging by the photos of ‘where’ the body was found (in one of the photos, Sheriff Dean said that his deputy was stationed precisely where the body was found)…I believe I have narrowed the probable location to somewhere in the red-outlined rectangle.

In the press conference, Sheriff Dean attempted to describe the only possible ways/paths Herdman could have taken to get to said location…
One such path, would have followed the aforementioned easterly “fork”…
The other path would have required a much longer trek (another mile or more south, before starting the/an ascent)…and then, circling back (north).

The location-mark – “Spire It” – was identified incidentally, shortly after the body was found…while attempting to identify ‘where’ the body was found…
When ‘spotting’ this ‘anomaly’…I had no idea, how close it was to the other points of interest (I was actually using the reported location of Duke’s distance & direction from Sulfur Peak as a general guide)…
Now, however, that I see the relation of the ‘probable campsite’, and where the body was found…I have grown…frenzied … my dreams have turned……difficult to…adjust to…

How many searchers were in the general area…including helicopters and drones…and…not one mention of said ‘structure/monolith’?
Is this a REAL structure?
Is it some…magnetic anomaly?
How can 10 separate satellite images…over 19 years…ALL…capture this ‘artefact’…in precisely the same location, and with the same geometric dimensions… IF it is not…actually…there?
(*Note – it also shows in Google Maps*)

I don’t know…
Is it real (physical)?
Its peak is recorded, consistently at 2,824’, with the lowest point of its base showing at 2,599’.
I know that the Sheriff said that Search & Rescue efforts had focused on areas they would expect someone trying to survive to have gone… And – this would be as ‘out of the expected route’ as…where the body was found…
But, it is so strange that no-one, in said efforts, saw or made note of this oddity.

So – to the real point of this post.
The most likely route Herdman would have taken to get to the top of the ‘sheer rock face’, where he apparently met his demise…would have been as identified by the lightish-blue dot-dot-dash line, ending at the gold star in the following Google Earth image…

ATS Big Pic

Do I think he chose to go there…while still looking for Duke?
No.
You notice that the dot-dot-dash line passes within 500 feet or so, below the “Spire”…

My thoughts are racing toward this “Spire” having something to do with everything from Duke taking off, and Herdman following…barefoot…to Herdman’s death.
How? No clue…

I’ve read numerous hiking blogs that deal with this general vicinity…and no-one has mentioned this “Spire”…
Sorry to waste your time, if you do not consider this significant…
I have many thoughts on the matter, and may post them later.
At the time, however, it is difficult to get/gain a handle on ‘how’ to even consider this ‘weird coincidence’.

Thanks for your time.
WanDash

a reply to: WanDash

Wandash, no two ways about it. That's an awesome post!

Ok so now I'm asking from a complete lack of knowledge.
Are you sure that cliff face is correct? As the red box being
where Herdmans body was found? Because that doesn't seem
to be up from the creek 1200 ft. However that could pass for
the area we see in the photos I believe?

I thank you for the excellent topography. Another fantastic
contribution. And if that's where herdmans body was found?
It puts a lot of perspective to what happen.

Good one.

a reply to: randyvs
Thanks, randyvs
I have scoured the rock formations, elevations, etc...for many miles around...and, in one of the photographs (where the sheriff's deputy is actually in the photo), I have been able to match geologic identifiers on mountains in the background, to be 97% positive, that this is the location where the body was found.
If you want...I can present a much more entailed post, that would justify those statements... I have found, however, that most people don't want to go through such a process...which is why I did not immediately follow the previous post with the same.
The key ingredients, outside confirmation of background geologic features mentioned above...are -
1. Body found 1,200' above the Sespe River bottom ("below")
2. 3/4th mile from campsite (the campsite location/coordinates) was provided by someone with closer-to-the-source information than I...though, it seemed to coincide with the published accounts of where Duke was seen on the Wednesday and Thursday of the week following Herdman's disappearance...
3. The specific configuration of the 'cliff-face', compared with the photos of the helicopter 'circling above' where the body was found...and,
4. The two paths that the sheriff pointed out, as 'the only ways that Herdman could/would have ascended' to where he could have fallen...

In fact...though...the larger part of the area enclosed in the red rectangle, is indeed, 1,200' above the Sespe Creek/River-Bottom, below it...and...in the range of 3/4th mile from the "Possible Campsite".

Appreciate your consideration!!

a reply to: WanDash

If you want...I can present a much more entailed post, that would justify those statements..

Negative, I just wanted to know how sure you are.
And from what I'm see'n, that won't even be necessary.
Because I agree with you. Looks like you nailed it down perfectly.
I want to talk some more about the spire my good man, but i
gotta go ni ni for now ok? Hell ya excellent work!

a reply to: randyvs
Thanks...
See ya tomorrow...or...when you can!

a reply to: WanDash

Ok Wan, I just want to commend you again briefly.
Your excellent work has most definitely brought this
oddity back into the scope of reality. Still a lot of
unanswered questions and mystery left to ponder.

But I'm at least beginning to see how we could call
somethings mentioned in the media, total mis-
communications. Where before we couldn't begin
to do that. So rest your neck for a bit my man. You
seem very sensitive ( and I don't imply a sissy) and
by what you've said, this is hard on you. So, take it slow
my intuitive fellow member. Relax, the world isn't
go'in any where just yet.

That spire convo? I'm not going to strike that up til tuesday.
Because I mean what I say. Get some rest amigo.

Marking for later....and woohooo! getting interesting again

a reply to: randyvs
I appreciate the reprieve !!!
Don't know what I would be able to contribute, today, anyway...
Awoke this morning with some new infirmity that has rendered me almost entirely incapacitated.
Hope the rest will really help.
See you, later.

It seems we're not the only peeps who think there's bs involved.

Comments from HERE


and this one!

a reply to: VoidHawk

I think that's good to know Void. An indicative sign post
so to speak. Thanks for posting the comments. Care to
share some of thoughts on Wans post? I mean it does
seem to lean in the direction you've been hammering
towards. And believe it or not, for me, it's actually a relief.

Always being the one to point out, the strangest
conclusions are making the most sense. Is what ends up
bothering me the most. I'm not joking at all.

This thread has nagged and nawed on me since It's casting.
I slept all day today, as I think Wan is doing now. And I won't
be here long. As I feel the need for more. IDK after this thread,
I may just drop this subject all together. I never treat people
the way I have on this thread at certain ponts. Fatigue.....

a reply to: randyvs

Wans post is food for thought indeed!

I switched to linux a few months back and only just realised I dont have google earth installed, as soon as its running I'll be all over that spire!

Wan said

One could only imagine that, to take a dog on a multi-day hike into rugged back-country…Herdman must have been confident in Duke’s manner…and that…the dog would not bolt.
Thus, I am inclined to believe the “inseparable” claims.

While I agree with what Wan is saying, inseparable does not mean the dog would not go walkabouts. My dog went EVERYWHERE with me, even to work (truck driving), and people often said we were inseparable, but when out in the wild Mr Dog knew he could do as he pleased and he often took off at high speed, returning minutes later giving me no clue as to why he took off. Thats why I find it hard to believe Herdsman would chase after the dog because it would have happened many times before.
If that part of the story is true, then the dog didn't just run off, it must have been running for its life! If thats true then I would have expected Byars to have made that point clear, but he apparently just said it ran off and they went looking for it.

I'm not an expert on any of this stuff, some of you guys have a much better grip on this than me, thats why I've found this so interesting, however! I do know about dogs, and I just cant accept he chased after the dog just because it left camp.

That spire is damned interesting! I'm off to get google earth installed

a reply to: VoidHawk

"Mr. Dog", I love that.

Good luck with google and I trust we'll hear from you
real soon Hawk. I'm off to bed early tonight. Start back
driving for Western Experss in a week from tomorrow.
And I'm sure you know what it means to be rested.
Check in here tomorrow my fellow members.

a reply to: VoidHawk
I appreciate your thoughts on this, VoidHawk...
I was not trying to say that Duke never wandered away from Herdman in previous adventures (I would be absolutely astounded if he did not wander/investigate continually throughout such outings)...
I am, likewise, not even trying to bolster the 'official' story (or the tale we are told that Byars' related)...but - if Duke did take off from the campsite, in such a manner that Herdman also left the campsite dressed as we know...I am pretty much in line with your thoughts on there being only a couple/few reasonable explanations...
1. Fright/Spooked - running away from a perceived threat
2. Chasing or Challenging a perceived threat
3. Or - something less identifiable...that drew them away from the campsite out of hyper curiosity

Of these possibilities, #s 2 & 3 might work with the story we are told that Byars related...
Duke could have perceived something that neither Herdman or Byars heard, saw, smelled or otherwise sensed...and Herdman, noting the manner in which Duke 'ran off'...figured he needed to go investigate, with haste...
If this were the case - (i) did Byars simply follow along, right away (someone reported that Herdman didn't 'boot-up' because his shoes were wet, and that Byars offered another set of shoes/boots...but...Herdman declined the offer -- I have not seen this confirmed or verified -- but allow that it might be the case)...; (ii) was there some discussion before Herdman took off after Duke...that included "we'll go together"...; or (iii) did Herdman take off in such a rush that Byars was left wondering...and after some hesitation/deliberation, set out after them...?

If the scenario falls in line with explanation No. 1, though...then, imo, a significant portion of the story has been intentionally redacted from the public tale, or Byars didn't remember/recall that part...

Not trying to prove anything in/with this post...just clarifying that I was not trying to convey the notion that "inseparable" meant Duke would not take off...; and further noting that there might be other reasons than imminent threat, for Duke leaving the campsite...and Herdman following.

BTW: When looking at the spire - note the indentation in the ground, and the irregular shape of its base.

Keep an eye on this one Co lorado hiker missing

a reply to: EyesOpenMouthShut

Colorado seems to be a hot spot!

some more great work being done in this thread.

i would love to know if that spire anomaly is actually a physical geographic feature or not. it really sticks out as being a bizarre detail in all of this.

randy, you posted previously about Paulides being on Para-X radio, i think it was within the past couple of days he was interviewed. Did anyone wind up catching that interview with him? I tried tuning in around 8pm but he wasn't the first guest and I couldn't listen to the whole show throughout the night. Wondering if he spoke about Herdman?